Re: Shortstop depth
posted at 8/25/2013 1:35 PM EDT
In response to dgalehouse's comment:
In response to mef429's comment:
In response to dgalehouse's comment:
Just pointing out that it is mistaken to justify the Iglesias trade by speaking of our shortstop depth. I hear that Bogaerts many errors do not matter. I keep hearing names like Marrerro, Vinicio and Lin. How well stocked we are. But is it really true ? Are they really that good ? Someone has to say these things. It just happens to be me. We can't all be " house " posters.
Stabbed by Foulke
well if you're going to take the initiative and see how good these guys are how about you look a little further than batting average?
Scouting reports and FULL offensive stats perhaps?? A jumping off point if you will.
Well, I'm not going to spend too much time on this, so this will be it. OPS seems to be the stat that most like to quote, so we'll look at that. Marrerro has a .507 OPS at AA and .676 at Class A Salem. Vinicio has a .499 OPS at low A Greenville. Lin has a . 614 OPS at short season Lowell. Bogaerts is certainly a strong hitter with a great future , but maybe not at shortstop. He has 20 errors between Portland and Pawtucket. Also note that Lin has already committed 19 errors at Lowell. Vinicio has an incredible 29 errors , to go with his .499 OPS, .201 B.A. and one home run at Greenville. Hopefully, these guys will improve, but to cite their presence in the minors as justification for trading Iglesias is simply wrong. Note that I was never , at any point , negative about the ability and future of Iglesias. It is a thankless task to point out the things that are wrong. Easier to be a " house " poster and cheerleader. Maybe I will have to go the way of Softlaw and Andrewmitch. Take my negativity and wander off into the sunset.
First, I don't understand why you want to lump yourself in with softy, who would simply resort to namecalling when you disagreed with him, or andrewmitch, who was so weak-willed and thin-skinned that he would ignore you if you disagreed with him.
For me, when I've disagreed with you I seem to remember being able to have an actual discussion on the matter -- something that was impossible with softy and andrew.
In this case, I don't think it has anything to do with being a "house" poster or cheerleader. Most of the responses have been based on perceived flaws in your argument.
For instance, you state that the Iggy trade was justified because of depth at SS in the system. That news to me. I've heard less about the depth in the system and more of the team having more faith in Bogaerts at SS in being a better all-around SS. Yes, Iggy is better defensively, but Bogaerts might be the better all-around package.
As I stated earlier, if that's the case, the immediate depth is moot. You seem to think that Bogaerts isn't long for the job at SS. That may be true, but ... the team has been insistent that Bogaerts is the SS for the immediate future -- hence the trade of Iggy. With Bogaerts at SS, it gives the others more time to develop.
Also, you're bringing up names that I've never heard in the discussion of SS of the future with the exception of Marraro. But even with him, there were questions about his hitting.
It's also not a strong analysis to simply use stats to evaluate a player. Iggy had decent batting averages in the minors, but the team didn't like his overall approach. So if batting averages of the other players are lower, they still might be showing the team more positives that gives the team more confidence in the ability to develop.
And while errors can be telling, again it's not a very reliable indicator either. Minor league field aren't always in the best shape. So the kind of errors a player is making needs to be factored in. Many great defensive players have had high error totals in the minors and young but improved dramatically in the majors, mostly because they kept working to improve but also the field conditions helped a lot.
I agree with you in that on a first look, the depth in the minors at SS might not be impressive. But as I stated, I don't see that as a reason for the trade and against to repeat, if Bogaerts is the SS of the future, that depth is not important.