Shortstop depth

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Shortstop depth

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 



    Well if Bogaerts is the SS of the future, it's kind of moot. It was only important because fans were shuffling guys all over the place. But if Middlebrooks is 3B and Bogaerts SS, then the only immediate IF need is 1B. Later, if Cecchini (sp?) is ready for 3B and Middlebrooks goes to 1B, then Bogaerts still is SS and there's not need to rush Marrero.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 



    Well if Bogaerts is the SS of the future, it's kind of moot. It was only important because fans were shuffling guys all over the place. But if Middlebrooks is 3B and Bogaerts SS, then the only immediate IF need is 1B. Later, if Cecchini (sp?) is ready for 3B and Middlebrooks goes to 1B, then Bogaerts still is SS and there's not need to rush Marrero.

    [/QUOTE]
    That's a pretty big IF considering that I'm now hearing that SS may not be Bogarts best position and he may be more suited for 3B.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 

     



    Well if Bogaerts is the SS of the future, it's kind of moot. It was only important because fans were shuffling guys all over the place. But if Middlebrooks is 3B and Bogaerts SS, then the only immediate IF need is 1B. Later, if Cecchini (sp?) is ready for 3B and Middlebrooks goes to 1B, then Bogaerts still is SS and there's not need to rush Marrero.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I think it will become readily apparent that Bogaerts needs to be moved from short to third or left. He is not even remotely the defensive shortstop that Iglesias is.  Marrero is already the same age as Iglesias, batting .211 in AA , while Iglesias is batting .324 in MLB.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    Is this the best whine you could come up with?  A complaint about the recently promoted Marrero after 9 games in AA?

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Is this the best whine you could come up with?  A complaint about the recently promoted Marrero after 9 games in AA?

     




    Joe , If you don't like something, it is always effective to play the " whine " card. We see a lot of that here.  Let's hope that Marrero can improve on that average as he gains experience in AA Ball. I did note that he hit .256 at Class A Salem.  By the way, Marrero is the same age as Iglesias. Just not quite as advanced.  End of " whine."

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 

     



    Well if Bogaerts is the SS of the future, it's kind of moot. It was only important because fans were shuffling guys all over the place. But if Middlebrooks is 3B and Bogaerts SS,then the only immediate IF need is 1B. Later, if Cecchini (sp?) is ready for 3B and Middlebrooks goes to 1B, then Bogaerts still is SS and there's not need to rush Marrero.

     


    That's a pretty big IF considering that I'm now hearing that SS may not be Bogarts best position and he may be more suited for 3B.

     



    You're hearing this from fans and because Bogaerts was given time at 3B in case Middlebrooks wasn't cutting it.

    The Sox, publicly anyway, keep saying they're committed to Bogaerts at SS. So it may not be as big of an IF as you think. We'll see what happens. Maybe Bogaerts isn't a long-term SS, but he very well me a short term SS two or three years. So what ever dept the Sox have now or don't have now might be irrelevent.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    Bogaerts committed 9 errors in 56 games at Portland , and 11 errors in 60 games at Pawtucket.  Does not sound like a good defensive player. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Is this the best whine you could come up with?  A complaint about the recently promoted Marrero after 9 games in AA?

     

     




    Joe , If you don't like something, it is always effective to play the " whine " card. We see a lot of that here.  Let's hope that Marrero can improve on that average as he gains experience in AA Ball. I did note that he hit .256 at Class A Salem.  By the way, Marrero is the same age as Iglesias. Just not quite as advanced.  End of " whine."

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure how he is not as advanced.  Iglesias went through the system at a slightly younger age, but Marrero has better stats.  Marrero has a .687 OPS in the minors with a 117/79 K/W while Iggy had a .622 with a 180/73.

    Looks like my Iggy predictions have come full circle.  For a couple of years, I've been telling people not to worry about Iggy.  That he'd be here in 2014, and eventually get up to .660 with a GG.  And he's developed so quickly that he is now the standard of measure.

    So now I get to start saying, all over again, don't worry about Marrero.  He'll be a fine fielder and should get up to .680-.720.  Don't worry about his last 9 games.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Bogaerts committed 9 errors in 56 games at Portland , and 11 errors in 60 games at Pawtucket.  Does not sound like a good defensive player. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    I'd be more than a little surprised if he stuck at SS.

    But if errors are your concern, then it should be noted that Iglesias has .969 fielding % in the minors, against Marrero's .975.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 

    Some people feel compelled to denigrate Red Sox prospects.Wink

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 

     

    Some people feel compelled to denigrate Red Sox prospects.Wink

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah. If only we had the depth of Seattle. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 



    If you were going for clueless, whiny and pathetic, this post dead is on b*lls accurate!

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    I'd have loved Iggy as our SS for years to come, but I find it a bit ironic that low batting averages are being quoted on our current SS prospects.

    I agree that Boggy would be best at 3B, but right now he is the SS of the near future anyways. Most teams would kill to have that option right now.

    There's Brock Holt. He has a .309 minor league BA. Should that make us feel secure? How about his .374 minor league OBP? His AAA numbers: .312/.370. Inspiring, right? I'm still not sure why we were supposed to overlook Iggy's offense, because of his great defense, but then the guys we have now are being judged by a different standard. (BTW, Hot has a .250 MLB BA in 496 PAs.)

    Marrero is a plus fielder with a plus arm. His current AA average is .220, but it's based on his first 41 PAs at that level. His overall minor league BA is .259 with an OBP of .344. For just 2 years in professional baseball, I'd say that's pretty nice for a SS. He even has 46 SBs in 158 games. 

    Tzu-Wei Lin is our 40th ranked prospect, but is only 19 years old. He batted .255 with an OBP of .341 in 130 PAs in rookie ball last year, but has slipped to .227/.311 at Lowell in 239 PAs so far. He's supposed to be an excellent fielder with great range and arm.

    Jose Vinicio has slipped from #19 to #56 on soxprospects.com. Again, he's in the Iggy mold: great fielding - weak bat.

    Sox4ever

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop epth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength."

    Some people feel compelled to denigrate Red Sox prospects.Wink

    Yeah. If only we had the depth of Seattle.

     

    Perhaps the Red Sox are getting there after the Mariners this season promoted two shortstops: 22-year-old Nick Franklin (OPS+ of 111 in 290 PA) and 23-year-old Brad Miller (OPS+ of 114 in 212 PA):

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=20025

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/1/5/3838474/seattle-mariners-top-20-prospects-for-2013

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2013.shtml

    If you're interested, check out the stats of Seattle shortstop prospects Chris Taylor, Ketel Marte and Tyler Smith:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=taylor004chr

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=marte-000ket

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=smith-001tyl

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 



    So you like Iggy who had a horrible BA in the minors, but you want to judge Marrero by his horrible BA in the minors.

    Got it.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 

     



    So you like Iggy who had a horrible BA in the minors, but you want to judge Marrero by his horrible BA in the minors.

     

    Got it.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly. These guys want to have it both ways.

    No consistent criteria.

    Small sample size judgements- sometimes as small as one game.

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Bogaerts committed 9 errors in 56 games at Portland , and 11 errors in 60 games at Pawtucket.  Does not sound like a good defensive player. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    What about this player?

    Seven errors in 55 games at Portland.

    12 errors in 97 games at Pawtucket.

    13 errors in 88 games at Pawtucket.

    4 errors in 32 games at Pawtucket.

    So -- does this sound like a good defensive player?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 

     



    If you were going for clueless, whiny and pathetic, this post dead is on b*lls accurate!

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Good one, jasko. So, what do you think of those numbers ?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 

     



    So you like Iggy who had a horrible BA in the minors, but you want to judge Marrero by his horrible BA in the minors.

     

    Got it.

    [/QUOTE]


    They are the same age. Iglesias is the Tiger's shortstop. Marrero is trying to adjust to AA pitching.  Same age.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Shortstop depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    With Bogaerts now with the Sox, let's take a look at our much heralded shortstop depth in the minors:  Pawtucket - Meneses, batting .200- just promoted from Portland , where he hit .255.    Portland - Deven Marrero- batting .211, recently promoted from Salem , where he hit .256.    Salem -  Natoli, batting .189.   Greenville -  Vinicio , batting .202.   Lowell -  Lin , batting .227.   Folks , that is what we are calling " shortstop depth."  Our " position of strength." 

     

     



    So you like Iggy who had a horrible BA in the minors, but you want to judge Marrero by his horrible BA in the minors.

     

     

    Got it.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    They are the same age. Iglesias is the Tiger's shortstop. Marrero is trying to adjust to AA pitching.  Same age.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's a valid point. But Iggy was just "trying to adjust" to AAA pitching two months ago. Remember? Iggy hit 202  this in AAA.

     

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