Should Ben get Matt Garza?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from accland. Show accland's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    What do the sox really have that is attractive to other teams that they could give up without leaving holes in the current team or teams in the near future?

    Strength in the minors was true years ago but a myth today. Most prospects are years away and many will fail as prospects usually do.

    You can trade Pedroia, Ellsbury, and beckett but how does that make you stronger?

    Youk will bring back nothing due to his age and health questions.

    Best strategy remains trying to find vets who are cheap and might offer some upside.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    Why so much love shown towards Matt Garza? He is a four starter and would demand valuable prospects, plus a salary of 10 million dollars, all that for a fourth starter. Common man as Chris Carter would say. The Sox could[can] do better without giving up anything, such as Roy Oswalt for one year or two at the most. Somehow people seem to thing Garza is top of the line, he is a good pitcherm not top of the line.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    In Response to Should Ben get Matt Garza?:
    [QUOTE]Will he put us over the top; is he the key to winning a World Series? Should the Sox meet Theo's price in prospects to get him? No Leader In Garza Trade Talks
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    I am worried about Garza's mental state.  He has matured some, but he can lose concentration quite easily.  He's got all "the stuff" but gets ruffled too easily.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza? : He is a four starter there's plenty of merit to what you said but I don't think Buchholz rates above garza at this time
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    Neither one is a #4 SP, unless the league average ERA has dropped to about 3.60.  They are both #2/3 types.

    Garza rates above Buchholz in terms of dependibility, and I think that's about it.  Garza's ERA was about double what Buchholz' was in 2010.  It was similar in 2011, but Garza was pitching in the NL.  And I still can't get away from peeking at the W/L records, with Buch at 30-14 over the past three years and Garza at 33-32.  Buch has had better teams, but not that much better.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NegativeTrollsAbound. Show NegativeTrollsAbound's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    Theo will ask for too much. Move on.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    IRT the OP, not much interest in Garza, unless the price is right.  As near as we can, I think we should be building up the system for another year or two, and waiting for the lower level to mature.  I think a cheap, one-year solution is called for here.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Should Ben get Matt Garza? : I am worried about Garza's mental state.  He has matured some, but he can lose concentration quite easily.  He's got all "the stuff" but gets ruffled too easily.
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]

    ...and who is the Sox #4 starter who is steady Eddie and 28 years old that is so much better than Garza?  Moot point anyway since he earned 6 mil last year and that is above the Sox spending limits.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    I'd much rather have Garza in the rotation than Bard.

    In fact, I think the Sox should start their offer for Garza with Bard.  Bailey has really made Bard redundant on this team...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?:
    [QUOTE]Theo will ask for too much. Move on.
    Posted by NegativeTrollsAbound[/QUOTE]


    That is correct.  Plus Boston already gave away their players for two pitchers. Now they may not have anyone left to trade except these top ten prospects including Larvanway!!  Theo know he would want a simular deal that the Nats made with Oakland for Gio.

    You re right again, move on!!!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?:
    [QUOTE]Hi SinceYaz: Truck leaves Fenway for Fort Myers: Feb. 11! Can't wait for Bobby V's tenure as Sox manager. 2012 will be exciting.
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    Hi Idiot!

    We don't have to worry about anyone saying, "All he does is sit and spit," that's for sure.  Ft. Myers will always bear good feelings ... lived across the river during the time my sons went to school from 2nd grade and Pre-K to HS and 6th grade...loved the fishing, the beaches (Sanibel and Captiva and Wiggins Pass) and the raquetball.

    I am quietly pleased with the acquisitions so far.  I am quite satisfied with the BP moves.
     
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    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    yes ben should most definetly get matt garza. without question he is the best starting pitcher available. he has pitched in the al east, is relatively young, and would give us a solid rotation.
     
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    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    I say forget about Garza and go for Wandy.  Theo knows how much interest their is in Garza from NYY, TOR, and FLA, among others.  He knows the sox system best and will not do the Sox any favors.  We will get Wandy for less prospect-wise, and he is a lefty, albeit 32 to Garza's 29 years old.  The Astros have indicated they may be willing to pay some of his 2012 salary in the right deal.  Their 3yr averages are as follows:

    Garza    31 GS 197.3 IP 11W 10L 3.88 ERA 1.25 WHIP 156 K 67 BB
     Wandy 30 GS 179.3 IP 11W 10L 3.36 ERA 1.27 WHIP 167 K 58 BB

    What do others think?
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    In Response to Should Ben get Matt Garza?:
    [QUOTE]Will he put us over the top; is he the key to winning a World Series? Should the Sox meet Theo's price in prospects to get him? No Leader In Garza Trade Talks
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]
    Not sure we have the prospects to make work. With Theo/Jed knowledge of RS farm no way getting on cheap. Seems many want to make him out to be a No.1 starter costing probably at least 3 top prospects. IMO he is not worth that price, if Cubs were to reduce price as part of the Theo compenstaion I'm in = no Middlebrooks/Renaudo/Barnes/Bogaerts/ Brentz. How about Tejada/Britton and lesser type prospect?
     
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    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?:
    [QUOTE]I say forget about Garza and go for Wandy.  Theo knows how much interest their is in Garza from NYY, TOR, and FLA, among others.  He knows the sox system best and will not do the Sox any favors.  We will get Wandy for less prospect-wise, and he is a lefty, albeit 32 to Garza's 29 years old.  The Astros have indicated they may be willing to pay some of his 2012 salary in the right deal.  Their 3yr averages are as follows: Garza    31 GS 197.3 IP 11W 10L 3.88 ERA 1.25 WHIP 156 K 67 BB  Wandy 30 GS 179.3 IP 11W 10L 3.36 ERA 1.27 WHIP 167 K 58 BB What do others think?
    Posted by cassvt2004[/QUOTE]
    Good idea. Problem is payroll Wandy 11 mil really about 16 mil for RS when payroll tax of 40% is added because no way they fit that contract and stay under 178 threshold.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Should Ben get Matt Garza? : Not sure we have the prospects to make work. With Theo/Jed knowledge of RS farm no way getting on cheap. Seems many want to make him out to be a No.1 starter costing probably at least 3 top prospects. IMO he is not worth that price, if Cubs were to reduce price as part of the Theo compenstaion I'm in = no Middlebrooks/Renaudo/Barnes/Bogaerts/ Brentz. How about Tejada/Britton and lesser type prospect?
    Posted by garyhow[/QUOTE]
    Matt Garza, who posted a WAR* of 5.0 last season, should command more than Oscar Tejada, a 22-year-old middle infielder who posted a .249 batting average and a sub-.300 on-base percentage last year at Double A, and/or Drake Britton, a 22-year-old lefthander who posted an ERA of 6.91 at Single A last season.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Skadude22. Show Skadude22's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza? : Matt Garza, who posted a WAR* of 5.0 last season, should command more than Oscar Tejada, a 22-year-old middle infielder who posted a .249 batting average and a sub-.300 on-base percentage last year at Double A, and/or Drake Britton, a 22-year-old lefthander who posted an ERA of 6.91 at Single A last season. * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    While I absolutely agree that the asking price for Garza will be much more than Tejada and Britton, I think those stats are a little misleading. I think Britton's value is far greater than that of a 22 year old lefty with a 6.91 era. Similarly, if I said Garza pitched less than 200 innings last year, while having a .500 record, it would make Garza seem a little less appealing.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza? : While I absolutely agree that the asking price for Garza will be much more than Tejada and Britton, I think those stats are a little misleading. I think Britton's value is far greater than that of a 22 year old lefty with a 6.91 era. Similarly, if I said Garza pitched less than 200 innings last year, while having a .500 record, it would make Garza seem a little less appealing.
    Posted by Skadude22[/QUOTE]
    Stated differently, Matt Garza should command more than SoxProspects' No. 15 and No. 18 prospects in a middle-of-the-pack farm system:

    http://www.soxprospects.com/

    ... or two prospects who failed to make the Top 25 in another listing of Red Sox prospects by John Sickels at Minor League Ball:

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/13/2633672/boston-red-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2012

    Neither Oscar Tejada nor Drake Britton is on Baseball America's upcoming list Top 10 prospects in the Red Sox organization.

    Two years of a starting pitcher coming off a 5.0 WAR season should attract a heftier return.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    If the cubs can include compensation for Theo then it would be a good and FAIR deal for the Sox and the Cubs. If not pass on, lets see what Bard and Aceves can do. We are not better anyways compared to the last year (on the paper) so let the experiments begin.
     
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    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    I would stay as far away from wandy rodriguez as possible. He makes too much money and is not very good. I would say its garza or bust at this point. The field narrowed slightly today with rosenthal reporting that the jays are unlikely to acquire garza. That leaves the marlins who have virtually no shot, the yankees who will likely not part with the prospects needed to land him, detroit who has a good shot if the reports are true that they are making jacob turner available in a garza deal (i question if they really are willing to give him up) and the red sox. I think in the end it comes down to the sox and tigers. I think there two things that give the sox the edge in landing garza. 1) theo knows the sox prospects and would likely feel more comfortable dealing for them as opposed taking a shot on another teams prospects 2) the cubs still owe the sox compensation for theo, by dealing the sox garza,  the cubs could avoid giving the sox one of there better prospects such as trey mcnutt and in the process recieve prospects from the sox as well. 
     
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    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    I will chime in with a vote of they should persue both Byrd and Garza and I'ld dangle Kalish and Bard. It might be sacrelgious to want to trade both of the kids but I really think Garza and Byrd would fit quite nicely on this team and though I think Bard has lights out stuff he definately took a digger at the end of the season last year plus I don't think he'll make a smooth transition to the starting rotation.Wandy,Roy or Joe Saunders are the fallback plans.
     
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    Re: Should Ben get Matt Garza?

    Given that Theo is comfortable with our prospects and the fact that the Cubs owe us "significant compensation" for releasing him to the Cubs one year early, I would think that a couple prospects such as Drake and Tejada could get if done!
     
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