Should Ben go ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Should Ben go ?

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    Cody Ross panned out. Vincent Padilla panned out.  Kelly Shoppach panned out.  De La Rosa is TBD.  Getting out of Beckett and Crawfords contracts panned out.  Ciriaco panned out.  

    Lowrie missed most of this season and batted .250 when he played.  Reddick crashed down to earth in a big way.  

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 56redsox. Show 56redsox's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.




    I Really Think LL Was Making All The Calls, So I Say Not So Fast, Lets See Who He Brings In....

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yaso#7. Show Yaso#7's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    No

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.




    I've got your back on this one Iceman; Cherington should definitely go.  I personally think he is an incompetent person too small for the job and have felt that soon after he was made GM last November.  However, there are those here and on other boards who have insisted he never really had the power or the money behind him to do anything and want to wait.  To those who feel that way, what if he bumbles his way through another off season, failing to g et rid of some of the miserable pitchers we had this year, fails to resign Ross but resigns the weak hitting and comotose baLoney, fails to get us the pitching we need?  Does he still deserve to stay around or will those Bennyphiles finally be convinced that this guy is a second rater who is in over his head?

     

    OTOH, if he performs well this winter and helps to refit the team so they will be a better club entering next season, do I stand down and change my opinion of him?  I had better.  I just don't think he will do it, however.

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.



    I am not convinced he is the one for the job.... I honestly felt like it was a mistake to put him in that position in the first place because I see him as a Theo clone.... When the Sox got rid of Theo they should have hired someone from outside the organization.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.




    I've got your back on this one Iceman; Cherington should definitely go.  I personally think he is an incompetent person too small for the job and have felt that soon after he was made GM last November.  However, there are those here and on other boards who have insisted he never really had the power or the money behind him to do anything and want to wait.  To those who feel that way, what if he bumbles his way through another off season, failing to g et rid of some of the miserable pitchers we had this year, fails to resign Ross but resigns the weak hitting and comotose baLoney, fails to get us the pitching we need?  Does he still deserve to stay around or will those Bennyphiles finally be convinced that this guy is a second rater who is in over his head?

     

    OTOH, if he performs well this winter and helps to refit the team so they will be a better club entering next season, do I stand down and change my opinion of him?  I had better.  I just don't think he will do it, however.

     

     



    definately go and incompetent, on what grounds, Fred?? He wasn't an advocate for hiring BV, check. Signed Ross...check. Padilla check. and a few others. Too soon to say on Bailey. He also knew enough to stand pat at the trade deadline, knowing this team was more than just a player away from contending. He pulled off what seemed like the impossible trade. How about we all give the guy a chance to see what he's got, before throwing him into the fire. He has a solid background in draft and development, which had been the organization model and got away from.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to VeniceSox's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.



    I am not convinced he is the one for the job.... I honestly felt like it was a mistake to put him in that position in the first place because I see him as a Theo clone.... When the Sox got rid of Theo they should have hired someone from outside the organization.



    Why is he a clone?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.




    I've got your back on this one Iceman; Cherington should definitely go.  I personally think he is an incompetent person too small for the job and have felt that soon after he was made GM last November.  However, there are those here and on other boards who have insisted he never really had the power or the money behind him to do anything and want to wait.  To those who feel that way, what if he bumbles his way through another off season, failing to g et rid of some of the miserable pitchers we had this year, fails to resign Ross but resigns the weak hitting and comotose baLoney, fails to get us the pitching we need?  Does he still deserve to stay around or will those Bennyphiles finally be convinced that this guy is a second rater who is in over his head?

     

    OTOH, if he performs well this winter and helps to refit the team so they will be a better club entering next season, do I stand down and change my opinion of him?  I had better.  I just don't think he will do it, however.

     

     



    definately go and incompetent, on what grounds, Fred?? He wasn't an advocate for hiring BV, check. Signed Ross...check. Padilla check. and a few others. Too soon to say on Bailey. He also knew enough to stand pat at the trade deadline, knowing this team was more than just a player away from contending. He pulled off what seemed like the impossible trade. How about we all give the guy a chance to see what he's got, before throwing him into the fire. He has a solid background in draft and development, which had been the organization model and got away from.




    JBay, no matter what the reasons were his trades and acquisitions last winter left a lot to be desired and he never got us the two good starters we needed so badly.  However, in my last paragraph, short as it was, I said I would stand down if he showed himself to be an astute executive this winter.  Sorry, though.  I just believe I have this guy figured out as a weak kneed second rater.  I will be hoping I misjudged him.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to VeniceSox's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.



    I am not convinced he is the one for the job.... I honestly felt like it was a mistake to put him in that position in the first place because I see him as a Theo clone.... When the Sox got rid of Theo they should have hired someone from outside the organization.



    Why is he a clone?



    Well, they were the best of friends and from what heard he worshipped Theo ...that said, even if he wasnt a clone, I still think it would have been better to clear out the old regime and come in with a new one....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    JBay, no matter what the reasons were his trades and acquisitions last winter left a lot to be desired and he never got us the two good starters we needed so badly. 

    It isn't that easy to just find two good pitchers.  It wasn't even clear that we needed two good pitchers.  We had beckett, Lester, Buchholz, and they were an automatic 1-2-3, then Doubront as a #5.  On paper, we needed only one good pitcher.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.




    I've got your back on this one Iceman; Cherington should definitely go.  I personally think he is an incompetent person too small for the job and have felt that soon after he was made GM last November.  However, there are those here and on other boards who have insisted he never really had the power or the money behind him to do anything and want to wait.  To those who feel that way, what if he bumbles his way through another off season, failing to g et rid of some of the miserable pitchers we had this year, fails to resign Ross but resigns the weak hitting and comotose baLoney, fails to get us the pitching we need?  Does he still deserve to stay around or will those Bennyphiles finally be convinced that this guy is a second rater who is in over his head?

     

    OTOH, if he performs well this winter and helps to refit the team so they will be a better club entering next season, do I stand down and change my opinion of him?  I had better.  I just don't think he will do it, however.

     

     



    definately go and incompetent, on what grounds, Fred?? He wasn't an advocate for hiring BV, check. Signed Ross...check. Padilla check. and a few others. Too soon to say on Bailey. He also knew enough to stand pat at the trade deadline, knowing this team was more than just a player away from contending. He pulled off what seemed like the impossible trade. How about we all give the guy a chance to see what he's got, before throwing him into the fire. He has a solid background in draft and development, which had been the organization model and got away from.




    JBay, no matter what the reasons were his trades and acquisitions last winter left a lot to be desired and he never got us the two good starters we needed so badly.  However, in my last paragraph, short as it was, I said I would stand down if he showed himself to be an astute executive this winter.  Sorry, though.  I just believe I have this guy figured out as a weak kneed second rater.  I will be hoping I misjudged him.

     



     The checkbook was closed and prospects were thin for trades, which is why I feel he should be given the chance to put his own mark on this team. With payroll freed up after the trade, lets see what happens before unfairly labeling him incompetent.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    JBay, no matter what the reasons were his trades and acquisitions last winter left a lot to be desired and he never got us the two good starters we needed so badly. 

    It isn't that easy to just find two good pitchers.  It wasn't even clear that we needed two good pitchers.  We had beckett, Lester, Buchholz, and they were an automatic 1-2-3, then Doubront as a #5.  On paper, we needed only one good pitcher.




    You forget about the brittleness of our starting pitchers of past years.....remember Buchholz? Remember Beckett?  No way they were going to stay healthy all season; anyone of them could break down and be out for a long duration of time, like Buchholz in 2011, or have the repeated injuries Beckett suffered in 2008 and 2010.  Besides, no one knew if Doubrant would be able to handle  the starting job.  Either way you look at it we needed at least one good starter and in my opinion two...We got bumpkiss instead.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    I am trying to figure out which of his acquisitions, besides Melancon (who might pan out in the long run, if September is any indication), didn't pan out?  Someone panning out implies them not living up to a level of expectation.  So, who didn't pan out?  Aaron Cook?  He had zero expectation.  It was a flyer and he was only pressed into action because the rest of the staff was either hurt, terrible, or terrible and hurt.  He made small moves, which were all he could do, and made them pretty judiciously in my estimation.

    The only real mistake he made was caving on valentine, but, then, i think Lucchino made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

    And then, he pulled off an absolute coup in the Dodger trade.  Shrewd and gutsy move.  

    The verdict is still out on young Ben.  this off season is the true test.  his hands were tied by bloated payroll and the 2011 debacle.  No, no more hands tied.  Lets see what he can pull off. And try him at the Sox-gallows next year this time.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    I am trying to figure out which of his acquisitions, besides Melancon (who might pan out in the long run, if September is any indication), didn't pan out?  Someone panning out implies them not living up to a level of expectation.  So, who didn't pan out?  Aaron Cook?  He had zero expectation.  It was a flyer and he was only pressed into action because the rest of the staff was either hurt, terrible, or terrible and hurt.  He made small moves, which were all he could do, and made them pretty judiciously in my estimation.

    The only real mistake he made was caving on valentine, but, then, i think Lucchino made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

    And then, he pulled off an absolute coup in the Dodger trade.  Shrewd and gutsy move.  

    The verdict is still out on young Ben.  this off season is the true test.  his hands were tied by bloated payroll and the 2011 debacle.  No, no more hands tied.  Lets see what he can pull off. And try him at the Sox-gallows next year this time.




    +1

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    I am trying to figure out which of his acquisitions, besides Melancon (who might pan out in the long run, if September is any indication), didn't pan out?  Someone panning out implies them not living up to a level of expectation.  So, who didn't pan out?  Aaron Cook?  He had zero expectation.  It was a flyer and he was only pressed into action because the rest of the staff was either hurt, terrible, or terrible and hurt.  He made small moves, which were all he could do, and made them pretty judiciously in my estimation.

    The only real mistake he made was caving on valentine, but, then, i think Lucchino made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

    And then, he pulled off an absolute coup in the Dodger trade.  Shrewd and gutsy move.  

    The verdict is still out on young Ben.  this off season is the true test.  his hands were tied by bloated payroll and the 2011 debacle.  No, no more hands tied.  Lets see what he can pull off. And try him at the Sox-gallows next year this time.




    +1



    Blame Bush is getting old. Forget the "hands were tied" excuse as well. Ben had the ability to make trades even if he couldn't spend money. He knew we needed starting pitching going in but gambled with Bard and tried to get reclamation projects for the 5th spot. Championship teams don't do that. 

    He acquired Marlon Byrd when Ellsbury went down, and Jim Edmonds was available. Then he got shafted when he traded Youk to the WS. The biggest blunder, which most on here still seem to think was brilliant, is trading away Agon, and I still think Crawford woul have come around, he started to before deciding to have surgery.

    But, this is what the RS do......give up on players too soon, or trade players that they think will cost them too much money, even though they produce (Beltre, Vmart). He traded Scutaro for I believe, Mortensen, and even though Mortensen pitched pretty well, Scutaro had twice the year Aviles did.

    Ben Cherington is as clueless at being a GM, as Obama is at being president.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.




    Especially if you don't count the ones who did pan out.

     

    He did make some moves that did not work.  Every GM will.  Don't expect perfection...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    I think he had a great year. Melancon is the big black mark but that could still work. However the Bailey/Sweeney for Reddick is still a no brainer. Padilla was great, Shoppach worked for awhile and they got a young arm for him, Punto was Punto, finding player like Pods and Ciricaco were huge, Ross was a steal. The trade speaks for it self. It was a pretty good year for a guy with a team with a ton of contracts, and limited funds.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to VeniceSox's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to VeniceSox's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.



    I am not convinced he is the one for the job.... I honestly felt like it was a mistake to put him in that position in the first place because I see him as a Theo clone.... When the Sox got rid of Theo they should have hired someone from outside the organization.



    Why is he a clone?



    Well, they were the best of friends and from what heard he worshipped Theo ...that said, even if he wasnt a clone, I still think it would have been better to clear out the old regime and come in with a new one....




    You realize that Cherrington was here before any of the new owners or Theo came along right?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    Cody Ross panned out. Vincent Padilla panned out. Kelly Shoppach panned out. De La Rosa is TBD. Getting out of Beckett and Crawfords contracts panned out. Ciriaco panned out. 

    Also, Pods panned out. Mortensen panned out....

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    I am trying to figure out which of his acquisitions, besides Melancon (who might pan out in the long run, if September is any indication), didn't pan out?  Someone panning out implies them not living up to a level of expectation.  So, who didn't pan out?  Aaron Cook?  He had zero expectation.  It was a flyer and he was only pressed into action because the rest of the staff was either hurt, terrible, or terrible and hurt.  He made small moves, which were all he could do, and made them pretty judiciously in my estimation.

    The only real mistake he made was caving on valentine, but, then, i think Lucchino made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

    And then, he pulled off an absolute coup in the Dodger trade.  Shrewd and gutsy move.  

    The verdict is still out on young Ben.  this off season is the true test.  his hands were tied by bloated payroll and the 2011 debacle.  No, no more hands tied.  Lets see what he can pull off. And try him at the Sox-gallows next year this time.




    +1



    Blame Bush is getting old. Forget the "hands were tied" excuse as well. Ben had the ability to make trades even if he couldn't spend money. He knew we needed starting pitching going in but gambled with Bard and tried to get reclamation projects for the 5th spot. Championship teams don't do that. 

    He acquired Marlon Byrd when Ellsbury went down, and Jim Edmonds was available. Then he got shafted when he traded Youk to the WS. The biggest blunder, which most on here still seem to think was brilliant, is trading away Agon, and I still think Crawford woul have come around, he started to before deciding to have surgery.

    But, this is what the RS do......give up on players too soon, or trade players that they think will cost them too much money, even though they produce (Beltre, Vmart). He traded Scutaro for I believe, Mortensen, and even though Mortensen pitched pretty well, Scutaro had twice the year Aviles did.

    Ben Cherington is as clueless at being a GM, as Obama is at being president.




    Jim Edmonds? o.O  You mean the 42yr old Edmonds that last played in 2010? Your kidding, right? Tell me your kidding...CC was about to turn things around and earn that 21mm per for the next 5 years? Wow...Just....WOW

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to VeniceSox's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to VeniceSox's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.



    I am not convinced he is the one for the job.... I honestly felt like it was a mistake to put him in that position in the first place because I see him as a Theo clone.... When the Sox got rid of Theo they should have hired someone from outside the organization.



    Why is he a clone?



    Well, they were the best of friends and from what heard he worshipped Theo ...that said, even if he wasnt a clone, I still think it would have been better to clear out the old regime and come in with a new one....



    Exactly. The team needs a fresh look, a new way of doing things. There is no reason to expect that Cherington's style will be much different than that of Epstein, and thats not good news since Epstein is a bottom 5 GM nowadays. And as Fred said, he failed last winter to acquire the kind of pitching that the team obviously needed to stay in the thick of things this year. He did sign Ross and a few other good players, but ignored the Achilles Heel of the team. That IS his job, right? To identify and correct weaknesses in the team personnel. Under his leadership this year we had the worst team record since 1965. Some of that falls on his head.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomjoad544. Show tomjoad544's posts

    Re: Should Ben go ?

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    I vote yes. Almost none of his acquisitons panned out. Why is he getting a free ride? He was with the organization last year and the GM this year. I've seen all I need to see.




    NO-N0-NO-

     

    LARRY MUST GO!- Yes I know the caps is on  and I am shouting it.  What good has he done for this team?  Oh - those monster seats are nice!

     
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