Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    If they're names are Edgar Martinez yes. I'll save discussion of Big Papi until he retires.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    In Response to Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?:
    If they're names are Edgar Martinez yes. I'll save discussion of Big Papi until he retires.
    Posted by carnie
    If Ortiz retires tomorrow; I would think it's a "no", the Two world series were important enough for Kirby Puckett to make it in (but he was a position player); but the steroid taint is not going to go away just because Ortiz said he doesn't know how it happened. Some day I think guys like Arod, Bonds and Clemens may get in, but Ortiz, no matter what he does going forward, would come in to way below those three in pecking order. Just my opinion of course.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    No. DH'ers are not baseball players.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    If they put up good enough offensive numbers I don't see why not.  I am sure there are plenty of players in the HoF who couldn't field for $hit.  Were they really more valuable to their team than a guy that hits just as well, but doesn't play the field.  I don't see why a player should be punished just because they didn't play the field.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    In Response to Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?:
    No. DH'ers are not baseball players.
    Posted by maxbialystock


    So does that mean pitchers aren't baseball players. They just pitch.

    And how are DH's different from hitters who are basically liabiities in the field or "hidden" at 1B but have numbers.

     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    In Response to Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?:
    why not? in almost all cases it's offensive numbers that get the players inducted. defensive history is usually ignored. it would be hypocritical to not induct a DH. btw, ABBA is still the worst HOF induction of all time. narrowly beating out phil rizzuto as the worst.
    Posted by mryazz


    I was thinking the same thing - it's all about offensive anyways which is a shame.

    Ideally, for me for a DH to get in his offensive #'s would have to "no doubters" - eg if Rice were largely a DH the he would get in under my standards. 

    If Ortiz can reach 500 HR's (a stretch unless he sticks around just to reach this milestone) and keep his BA over .280 he would deserve to get in....not likely but certainly reachable.......
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    If elite closers are allowed in then I don't see why an elite DH can't be in as well.  
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    In response to "Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?":
    In Response to Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers? : dumbest post of the day, maybe week. you do realize that the most difficult part of baseball is hitting? just shake a baseball tree; it will drop nine gloves and one bat. Posted by mryazz
    If fielding is so easy, why dont DHers do it? I cant respect a lineup player who sits in the dugout for all but a tiny fraction of a game, who never gets tired or feels the strain of an extra inning game. When Ernie Banks said, "let's play two," he didnt mean from the dugout. When Ted Williams hit .406 by playing both ends of a double header, he didn't have the option of DHing. He wasn't that good an outfielder, but at least he went out there all 18 innings. Do you really think cal ripkens consecutive games record would mean much if he were a DH? Pitchers don't pitch every inning of every game, but they make up for it by working harder than lineup players when they do pitch, and they can't get by with throwing a good pitch every third pitch the way a hitter can get by with a hit every third at bat.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    Does a closer belong in the Hall of Fame?

    Mariano Rivera has faced 4,847 hitters in his career (plus four plate appearances as a hitter) while Edgar Martinez has 8,674 plate appearances (plus 4,605.1 innings in the field). In other words, Martinez was on the field for at least five times as many plays as Rivera has.

    For what it's worth, Edgar Martinez posted a .625/.700/1.188/1.888 line in 20 career plate appearances against Mariano Rivera.

    If Goose Gossage, Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter, Rollie Fingers and Hoyt Willhelm are in the Hall of Fame, why not a designated hitter?

    Edgar Martinez ranks ahead of many Hall of Famers in Wins Above Replacement (Baseball Reference), but behind others who have not been elected:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_bat_career.shtml

    Manny Ramirez has been valued at 64.9 WAR in 19 seasons and David Ortiz 35.0 WAR in 16 seasons while Martinez retired with 64.4 WAR in 18 seasons.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    DH was created in the early 1970s which means we're talking 40 years or so of a position that is very much part of American League and even All-Star/World Series vernacular. Of course, DHs belong in the Hall if they deserve to based on their hitting numbers.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    YES! Closers are specialists just like DH'S and they're in. Once David Ortiz gets to 500 HR then he should definitely be voted in. Edgar Martinez also should be in.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    In Response to Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?:
    No. DH'ers are not baseball players.
    Posted by maxbialystock

    ener
    Absolutely correct.  DH's are on typically on field for fewer than 10 or 15 minutes per game or less, do not need baseball gloves, do not have to throw or catch a ball, generally do not run well at all, and do not risk bodily injury daily by playing a position which causes them to be vulnerable to all kinds of obvious physical ailments like pulled hamstrings and the not so obvious fatigue and wear and tear over the course of a long season which clearly affects statistics. 

    The DH is a marketing gimmick in which the MLPA (union) was able to get a handful of owners in 1972 to introduce to the game by arguing that more offense would increase revenues and make the game more interesting.  Obviously it also served to unnecesssarily prolong the careers of veteran players who were unable to play the game as complete players.  The NL owners were and continue to be smart enough to see it for what it is.  If the day ever comes in which the DH is not an AL only anomaly, we might have a better idea as to how to guage their qualifications for the Hall of Fame.  Right now their numbers would have to be significantly better than those of position players in all power hitting categories (power, average and RBI) and simply stated they are not.  A great DH would have to be a perennial Triple Crown contender in my opinion to be given any consideration.   
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    I can't get past the whole Steroid Era thing and Edgar always looked fully torqued.  So it's a big fat no for me.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    In Response to Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?:
    In Response to Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers? : So does that mean pitchers aren't baseball players. They just pitch. And how are DH's different from hitters who are basically liabiities in the field or "hidden" at 1B but have numbers.
    Posted by royf19
      Pitchers have what are called baseball gloves.  They need them to catch as well as throw baseballs.  In addition to facing hitters, they are required to field bunts, balls hit up the middle and throw to various bases depending on the situation.  That makes them baseball players and in the NL they actually have bats and have to face their opposing "position player."  A lot of major league pitchers played shortstop and were often their team's best hitters when they young.  They are typically very good athletes.  DH's are typically not. 
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    typically, you have your head up your derriere. Don Baylor kept himself in superior shape and was a DH. Edgar outstanding physical shape-DH. Just because you can't accept something that has been around close to 40 years, just means you are tremendously biased against DHs. And there are many pitchers who just pitched and didn't play shortstop, and there are many chubby guys who played regular positions. DH is used a variety of different ways by different clubs. Deal with it.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    Of course they should.
     
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    Re: Should Designated Hitters Be Hall Of Famers?

    The Hall is based on the entire career of a player.  Most DH's have played some position at some point.  Certainly at the beginning of their MLB years.

    Ortiz has logged close to 2000 innings fielding a position.  He has extended his career and numbers by being proficient at offense.  Useful to the team, so yes, DH should be considered for the Hall.
     
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