Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheMaskedAvenger. Show TheMaskedAvenger's posts

    Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    Seems like he should have....

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    I'd have to see the replay. In hindsight , maybe Ciriaco should have run for him.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    I thought that too, but never saw a good enough replay to confirm one way or another. However, had he tried it and been thrown out to end the game, the title of this thread would be "should Gomes have been held at third with the hot hitting Nava on deck".

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Ciriaco should have been pinch running for Gomes.

    Whether he would has beat the throw, the right call was to send him and force an accurate throw.

    Lackey looked good.

    This team has the same serious issue.



    Why didn't you guys bring up the pinch runner thing at the time? Monday Morning Quarterbacks. 

    And they both would have been out by a mile if you watched the game.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    To me, It looked like anyone would have been out trying to go home on that one. Gomes was a couple steps off 3rd when the throw came in. Ciriaco might have been a couple steps further, but would have been out by a few steps regardless.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    Like I said , I have not seen the replay. I would say with certainty that Ciriaco is considerably faster running the bases than Gomes. With two outs , you are off on contact.  I am not second guessing Farrell , who has done a good job , but with Gomes representing the tying run , I think he missed the opportunity to pinch run with Ciriaco. Would Ciriaco have scored on the play ? I don't know , but he surely would have had a better chance than Gomes. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    All I know if Aceves was here, he would have scored the tying and winning run at the same time.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    Good topic.  Ciriaco should probably have run for Gomes, but then would have had to play left field and left no backup for 3B, SS, or 2B. 

    I get the mlb.com package for ipad and have watched the play several times.  Usually a player on first should score on a double with two men out.  However, the Phillies got a break in that the double was shallow and bounced off the close in wall and was fielded cleanly, barehanded, by Brown who threw quickly and accurately to an infielder outside the 3B line.  Brown landing on his stomach/chest actually made it easier for him to then get up and go a few steps to get the ball coming off the wall.  I think Ciriaco would have been nailed at the plate because an infielder is going to make a good throw most of the time at that distance. 

    On the larger issue of gambling in that situation, I think men on 2d and 3d with one run in and the score 4-3 put extra pressure on Papelbon.  Thus his first pitch to the next batter was a fastball inside, clearly a ball.  Unfortunately, Nava decided to be aggressive and hit a weak grounder to 1B. 

    One more issue occurs to me.  Was Gomes in fact running full speed on contact?  I have my doubts because even Ellsbury hesitated before taking off, thinking it was going foul. 

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    To me, It looked like anyone would have been out trying to go home on that one. Gomes was a couple steps off 3rd when the throw came in. Ciriaco might have been a couple steps further, but would have been out by a few steps regardless.




    THIS.

    i was at the game.  as much as i wanted him to be sent, he would have been out by 15 steps.  the ball was being thrown to the cutoff just as gomes was reaching 3rd base.  the throw hit the cutoff.  usain bolt would have been out.  earlier in the inning...papi missed the game tie'r by a couple mm's.  ball was hit a mile high to the RF'er.  his timing was perfect, just a fraction below centering the ball.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to TheMaskedAvenger's comment:

    Seems like he should have....




    NO ! ....Iwould have used a pinch runner .Someone was sleeping?. A play like that could have scored a fast runner or a least a real good shot at it.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Ciriaco should have been pinch running for Gomes.

    Whether he would has beat the throw, the right call was to send him and force an accurate throw.

    Lackey looked good.

    This team has the same serious issue.



    Some one is upset the Sox are in first place and the unbeatable Yankees are very beatable.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Ciriaco should have been pinch running for Gomes.

    Whether he would has beat the throw, the right call was to send him and force an accurate throw.

    Lackey looked good.

    This team has the same serious issue.

     



    Some one is upset the Sox are in first place and the unbeatable Yankees are very beatable.

     




    I disagree.  softlaw is prone to disgruntlement, but this was a play that can be argued on both sides.  I think the Phillies would have nailed not only Gomes but Ciriaco because of what the replays show, but a bad throw would have allowed Ciriaco to score. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    What Im mad about was Nava swinging at the 1st pitch. paps wasnt sharp at all. Seems to me like Nava got a little to anxious to make something happen there and wasnt smart At All about his approach. When a pitcher like Paps isnt totally on his game and his stuff isnt incredibly sharp, you make him pitch to you.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    It would have taken an accurate throw to get Ciriaco. Manager John has done a great job, but this was a blunder even if Ciriaco was thrown out by an accurate throw. Gomes had no business on the based in that situation.




    Farrell said that Gomes shouild not have been sent. Mills had a tough call.  At 3rd base coaches occasionally win or lose games. In the meantime, 1st base coaches remain unseen and unheard.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    Another minor point.  Somewhere I read you play to win on the road and tie at home in late close situations.  It that is true, the correct call is to hold the runner under the assumption a single will score two runs and give the Sox a 5-4 lead. 

    And boboinfla is right, Farrell did agree that holding the runner was right because of how the Phillies handled the relay. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    Good topic.  Ciriaco should probably have run for Gomes, but then would have had to play left field and left no backup for 3B, SS, or 2B. 

    I get the mlb.com package for ipad and have watched the play several times.  Usually a player on first should score on a double with two men out.  However, the Phillies got a break in that the double was shallow and bounced off the close in wall and was fielded cleanly, barehanded, by Brown who threw quickly and accurately to an infielder outside the 3B line.  Brown landing on his stomach/chest actually made it easier for him to then get up and go a few steps to get the ball coming off the wall.  I think Ciriaco would have been nailed at the plate because an infielder is going to make a good throw most of the time at that distance. 

    On the larger issue of gambling in that situation, I think men on 2d and 3d with one run in and the score 4-3 put extra pressure on Papelbon.  Thus his first pitch to the next batter was a fastball inside, clearly a ball.  Unfortunately, Nava decided to be aggressive and hit a weak grounder to 1B. 

    One more issue occurs to me.  Was Gomes in fact running full speed on contact?  I have my doubts because even Ellsbury hesitated before taking off, thinking it was going foul. 

     

     




    Bradley would have stayed in to play left. Ciriaco would have played third base.  Bradley entered the game as a pinch hitter for Uehara. Ortiz had hit for Iglesias.  At that point , you don't worry about having any backups remaining on the bench.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to boboinfla's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    It would have taken an accurate throw to get Ciriaco. Manager John has done a great job, but this was a blunder even if Ciriaco was thrown out by an accurate throw. Gomes had no business on the based in that situation.

     




    Farrell said that Gomes shouild not have been sent. Mills had a tough call.  At 3rd base coaches occasionally win or lose games. In the meantime, 1st base coaches remain unseen and unheard.

     




    Mills isnt the 3rd base coach anymore. Hes in Cleveland with tito. Butterfield is there now.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to boboinfla's comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    It would have taken an accurate throw to get Ciriaco. Manager John has done a great job, but this was a blunder even if Ciriaco was thrown out by an accurate throw. Gomes had no business on the based in that situation.

     




    Farrell said that Gomes shouild not have been sent. Mills had a tough call.  At 3rd base coaches occasionally win or lose games. In the meantime, 1st base coaches remain unseen and unheard.

     

     




    Mills isnt the 3rd base coach anymore. Hes in Cleveland with tito. Butterfield is there now.

     


    Major goof-up by me, but you already get the idea.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Lackey looked good.

     



    was it the 3 HR's he gave up or the back-to-back shots that made him look good?  phillies lineup is ANEMIC.    i am sorry but 3 BB + 3 HR in 6ip is not "looked good" vs a team where the highest BA in the lineup is .260.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Should Gomes have scored the tying run?

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Lackey looked good.

     

     



     

    was it the 3 HR's he gave up or the back-to-back shots that made him look good?  phillies lineup is ANEMIC.    i am sorry but 3 BB + 3 HR in 6ip is not "looked good" vs a team where the highest BA in the lineup is .260.




     

    As opposed to where he was 2 years ago?  He's not a threat to win the Cy Young.  He's the #4-5 starter with an ERA UNDER 3.00 for the year to date.  He gave up 3 runs in 6 innings (and came out for a pinch hitter, although who knows if he would have stayed in anyway), which gives your team a chance to win. What more do you want out of a #4 guy?

     

    The blame is on the offense.  The Red Sox squandered numerous opportunities last night (to be fair, so did the Phils) and have scored 4 runs in the last 2 games.  4 runs in 2 games will usually get you 1-1 at best and most times 0-2.

     
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