should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    If Roger went head hunting, he could back it up off the mound.

    [/QUOTE]

    You don't remember much then.

     

    [/QUOTE] 4B's..this was all Piazza's fault..everyone knows to look both ways when crossing a jagged bat intersection :-)


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
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    In response to steven11's comment:
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    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:
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    seems like an insult he has to share the satge with these 2 other jabros (on their exit and allegatons of PED).. both guys should have gone in as a duo in 2 years.. jeez! pedro is a draw on his own.. like U2 touring with the rollin stones.. y you need both guys distracting from the marquee?

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    even though Pedro brought us home a championship, I would take Clemens over him all day.  I don't ever remember Roger announcing he was shutting it down, just because the team was doing poorly in August.  I don't remember Roger beating up an old Don Zimmer.

    If Roger went head hunting, he could back it up off the mound.

    [/QUOTE]

    You don't remember much then.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    jackbu has a very selective memory.

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:
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    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
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    In response to steven11's comment:
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    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:
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    seems like an insult he has to share the satge with these 2 other jabros (on their exit and allegatons of PED).. both guys should have gone in as a duo in 2 years.. jeez! pedro is a draw on his own.. like U2 touring with the rollin stones.. y you need both guys distracting from the marquee?

    [/QUOTE]


    even though Pedro brought us home a championship, I would take Clemens over him all day.  I don't ever remember Roger announcing he was shutting it down, just because the team was doing poorly in August.  I don't remember Roger beating up an old Don Zimmer.

    If Roger went head hunting, he could back it up off the mound.

    [/QUOTE]

    You don't remember much then.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    jackbu has a very selective memory.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    remember what

    what does roger throwing a broken bat at a player  have to do with

    pedro and a old old coach

    I took steven11's comment as suggesting

    there was something cowardly in pedro actions

    what's was cowardly in roger throwing a broken bat at a player

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    The bat never hit the runner.  Wasn't one of Clemen's finer moments but once he put the pin stripes on, I stopped following him. My comments are merely reflective of Roger's time here as a Red Sox.  Pedro dropped the senior citizen Don Zimmer while wearing a Red sox uniform.  Pedro had pin point precision when throwing a 95 mph fast ball.  I am sure he was capable of stepping aside and avoiding a very old and very over weight senior citizen.

    While Roger was here he was always a class act and that is why he deserves to go into the sox hall with all the others on the same day at the same time.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    seems like an insult he has to share the satge with these 2 other jabros (on their exit and allegatons of PED).. both guys should have gone in as a duo in 2 years.. jeez! pedro is a draw on his own.. like U2 touring with the rollin stones.. y you need both guys distracting from the marquee?

    [/QUOTE]


    even though Pedro brought us home a championship, I would take Clemens over him all day.  I don't ever remember Roger announcing he was shutting it down, just because the team was doing poorly in August.  I don't remember Roger beating up an old Don Zimmer.

    If Roger went head hunting, he could back it up off the mound.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pedro did not "beat up" Don Zimmer.  Zimmer deserved to be beaten up as he went out of his way - running around the fight - to attempt to do exactly that to Pedro who was not involved in the fight.  All Pedro did was give the old idiot a nudge and let his moment take himself to the ground.

    What should Pedro have done, let the old goat punch him?  Tackle him?  He did the minimum to the old fool.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    Zimmer talking about the toss down. A funny take on the incident.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObKTIDwdWD8

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    While Roger was here he was always a class act and that is why he deserves to go into the sox hall with all the others on the same day at the same time.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not so nice Roger.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qLCCbvwk1w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmFka8PmvM

    ...and some extra Sox brawls...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXTptIiWwME

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    seems like an insult he has to share the satge with these 2 other jabros (on their exit and allegatons of PED).. both guys should have gone in as a duo in 2 years.. jeez! pedro is a draw on his own.. like U2 touring with the rollin stones.. y you need both guys distracting from the marquee?

    [/QUOTE]


    even though Pedro brought us home a championship, I would take Clemens over him all day.  I don't ever remember Roger announcing he was shutting it down, just because the team was doing poorly in August.  I don't remember Roger beating up an old Don Zimmer.

    If Roger went head hunting, he could back it up off the mound.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pedro did not "beat up" Don Zimmer.  Zimmer deserved to be beaten up as he went out of his way - running around the fight - to attempt to do exactly that to Pedro who was not involved in the fight.  All Pedro did was give the old idiot a nudge and let his moment take himself to the ground.

    What should Pedro have done, let the old goat punch him?  Tackle him?  He did the minimum to the old fool.

    [/QUOTE]


    Pedro should have done the same thing he would have done if it were Barry Bonds charging.  That would have been step aside.  Once again, regardless of what happened, Pedro made the initial contact.

    But again, the sox hall is about the years the players spent with the red sox and Clemens pitched his heart out and never did anything on or off the field that would warrant Pedro going alone on the day the sox hold the event.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    seems like an insult he has to share the satge with these 2 other jabros (on their exit and allegatons of PED).. both guys should have gone in as a duo in 2 years.. jeez! pedro is a draw on his own.. like U2 touring with the rollin stones.. y you need both guys distracting from the marquee?

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you going to say the same thing about Ortiz when it is his time?  Where does one draw the line?  Roger's mistake was to testify in front of Congress where they decided to prosecute him for perjury.  If he had not gone in front of Congress, the accusations would not have been much more than Ortiz's.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
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    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
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    In response to steven11's comment:
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    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
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    Contrary to what some have said here, if I was building a team and had to choose between Roger and Pedro...at their peaks...I would prefer Pedro everyday and twice on Sunday.

    In my opinion, Roger burn't bridges leaving Boston and even after he was gone...plus he began 'roid use to return to Cy level at the end and after leaving Boston. Those who don't believe he used are kidding themselves.

    To use the Zimmer incident andPedro shutting himself down at the end of one season as negatives is shortsighted, all he did was push aside the fool for charging him, Zimmer had no business being anywhere near Pedro in that situation

    ...let's not forget this was the same guy who pitched the one hitter in Cleveland in relief during the '99 playoffs, and many other great performances, along with teaming with Schilling to lead the Sox in '04 and create  the greatest choke in baseball history.

    I guess I am tainted against Clemens because of the way he handled his final years in Boston and lost respect for him when he started in Toronto winning a Cy or two...where was that pitcher during his final Boston contract?

    [/QUOTE]


    What did Roger do in his final years in Boston which bothers you so much?  Did he complain about his contract to the media like Pedro constantly did?

    You need to realize that the red sox hall is merely a marketing tool by the sox.  It is a boys club and nothing more than that. Roger played in a time when the Celtic's ruled, yet he still managed to get microphones pushed in front of him every night. If not for a bad decision by McNamara, Roger would have brought a ws to Boston.  That 86 team is still very special.

    Roger was never found guilty of using roids and when the talk of roids is directed at Papi, there are those who will say that MLB has messed up this whole thing.  Dan D got in front of the cameras and said Clemens was on the decline of his career.  At Pedro's age now, Clemens was still producing.

    Pedro was a great pitcher but does not deserve special treatment in this matter. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Steven, are you from Boston or live in the Boston area?? I would think not, because Boston is a baseball town...and was even during Clemens early years despite the championship caliber teams the Celtics were putting on the court.

    Clemens was great here until that final contract, and I am convinced he went through the motions for most of it...making Dan Duquette...a very astute baseball man...think he was at the twilight of his career. As I've stated before it was so coincidental that Clemens reverted back to being an ace type pitcher around the all-star break of his final season in Boston...these are the facts!!

    Clemens did not get convicted of 'roid use, but when someone steps forward and claims he injected him and his wife for that matter...it takes it to a different level.

    Regarding Ortiz...other than him being on a list...nobody else has come forward, yet, to claim they supplied him with anything...not like AROID and Roger the Dodger.

    Steven, if I had to guess your position here is first and foremost because you are a fan of the Boston team's arch rivals...just confirm that is where you are coming from and I will understand your position.

    You know where I'm coming from, and I have been forthright saying I am tainted towards Clemens...I remember the details...you just remember the guy as a cheater and Yankee!

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Clemens last 3 seasons in Boston he had ERA's of 2.85, 4.18 and 3.63. hardly "going through the motions".

    Let's be honest, you hate Clemens because he went to the Yanks and you defend Ortiz because he's still on the Sox.

    [/QUOTE]


    Jim, truth is I do hate Clemens...but not because he went to the Yankees...he was traded there and I don't blame a guy for making a living.


    However, whether the stats truly reflect this or not...there were differences in his performance and attitude during his final years in Boston...that is what I hate about him and the fact that he leaves town and becomes the ace pitcher he was before...here are the numbers:

    1993 30 BOS AL 11 14 0.44 4.46 1994 31 BOS AL 9 7 0.563 2.85 1995 32 BOS AL 10 5 0.667

    4.18


    Hardly CY caliber pitching here...those era's in the 4's were an aberration too...when he was good his ERA was in the low 2's.

     

                                                   
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    not to mention clemens is a buffoon.  pettitte said clemens did PED's.  clemens blamed his own wife.  his own WIFE!  what a meek man.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:


    Pedro did not "beat up" Don Zimmer.  Zimmer deserved to be beaten up as he went out of his way - running around the fight - to attempt to do exactly that to Pedro who was not involved in the fight.  All Pedro did was give the old idiot a nudge and let his moment take himself to the ground.

    What should Pedro have done, let the old goat punch him?  Tackle him?  He did the minimum to the old fool.



    2 say pedro had no little choice has some merit

    but please don't give us pedro was some innocent bystander

    he lit the fuse by pointing to his head in a threatening manner

    when zimmer points to his head he is pointing to

    four tantalum metal corkscrew-shaped "buttons''

    the drs gave him after being beamed yrs ago

    zim was wrong but is it really that hard to understand why it would of been

    more upseting to him than others

     


    Zimmer nearly died after being hit with a pitch in the temple while with St. Paul in 1953. He was not fully conscious for 13 days, during which holes were drilled in his skull to relieve the pressure of swelling. His vision was blurred, he could neither walk nor talk and his weight plunged from 170 to 124. He was told his career was finished at age 22.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Zimmer

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    According to Pedro, the head pointing was toward Posada, who said something in spanish about his mother.  Pedro also said something to the effect he put his hands out to avoid a controntation and Zimm fell to the ground.  I'll look to see if I can find the link's for the exact quote. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    posada can always hang his hat on the basehit game 7 2003.

    metal head had no business specifically charging at pedro.  he got what he should have expected.  shoved down.  if pedro did nothing and get punched or thrown down himself yankees fans would never let him or sox fans forget it.  he protected himself...simple as that.  i cant understand how anyone would think differently.  or expect pedro to have layed down.  that aint the guy he is.  remember he is the guy that famously said ""I don’t believe in d*** curses. Wake up the d*** Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I’ll drill him in the [butt]."

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    According to Pedro, the head pointing was toward Posada, who said something in spanish about Pedro's mother. Pedro also said something to the effect he put his hands out to avoid a controntation and Zimm fell to the ground, which wasn't his intention. I'll look to see if I can find the link's for the exact quote. 

    [/QUOTE]


    yes it was towards posada

    I heard something about pedro saying he was saying 'use your head'

    I'm not buying and don't think that's  how zim took it at the time


    Pedro also said something to the effect he put his hands out to avoid a controntation

    could be true

    then again he was walking right towards him

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsuYIN7y8Ew

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    posada can always hang his hat on the basehit game 7 2003.

    metal head had no business specifically charging at pedro.  he got what he should have expected.  shoved down.  if pedro did nothing and get punched or thrown down himself yankees fans would never let him or sox fans forget it.  he protected himself...simple as that.  i cant understand how anyone would think differently.  or expect pedro to have layed down.  that aint the guy he is.  remember he is the guy that famously said ""I don’t believe in d*** curses. Wake up the d*** Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I’ll drill him in the [butt]."

    [/QUOTE]

    LMAO

    ask the tough guy who's his daddy

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    not to mention clemens is a buffoon.  pettitte said clemens did PED's.  clemens blamed his own wife.  his own WIFE!  what a meek man.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Pettite never said he saw Clemens use roids he said it was discussed in a conversation.  I am sure everyone  has been involved in a conversation which later they deny saying.  Talking about roids and seeing one use them are two differrent things.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    wait...what?  i think you are misremembering steven.

    pettitte def dropped the dime on clemens.  thats what got the whole ball of wax rolling on him. 

    did he not blame his wife?

    i'm not sure what your point is.  pettitte said RC did them.  clemens said he "misremembered".  funny stuff.  i admit, it is strange that a yankees player would be tied to steroid/ped use.  seems so rare...

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    While Roger was here he was always a class act and that is why he deserves to go into the sox hall with all the others on the same day at the same time.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not so nice Roger.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qLCCbvwk1w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmFka8PmvM

    ...and some extra Sox brawls...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXTptIiWwME

    [/QUOTE]


    Do we really want to get into the subject of precluding a player from the RS HOF based on temper tantrums? Methinks not ;-)

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1718770-david-ortiz-ejection-video-watch-red-sox-star-throw-tantrum-vs-orioles

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    According to Pedro, the head pointing was toward Posada, who said something in spanish about his mother.  Pedro also said something to the effect he put his hands out to avoid a controntation and Zimm fell to the ground.  I'll look to see if I can find the link's for the exact quote. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Reminds me of a funny story which Tito told about Manny.  Manny and another player were having a violent agrument in spanish. Tito and the umpires finally went over and tito asked Manny what was going on.  Manny said the player accused him of stealing the other team's signs.  Tito looked at the player and laughed and said that Manny does not even know the red sox signs.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    While Roger was here he was always a class act and that is why he deserves to go into the sox hall with all the others on the same day at the same time.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not so nice Roger.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qLCCbvwk1w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmFka8PmvM

    ...and some extra Sox brawls...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXTptIiWwME

    [/QUOTE]


    Do we really want to get into the subject of precluding a player from the RS HOF based on temper tantrums? Methinks not ;-)

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1718770-david-ortiz-ejection-video-watch-red-sox-star-throw-tantrum-vs-orioles

    [/QUOTE]


    I am thinking that some have double standards and we are not suposed to discuss the phone incident, the bursting in on tito's live press conference, or getting named for roid use.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    wait...what?  i think you are misremembering steven.

    pettitte def dropped the dime on clemens.  thats what got the whole ball of wax rolling on him. 

    did he not blame his wife?

    i'm not sure what your point is.  pettitte said RC did them.  clemens said he "misremembered".  funny stuff.  i admit, it is strange that a yankees player would be tied to steroid/ped use.  seems so rare...

    [/QUOTE]


    If you look at the court transcripts, Any says Roger mentioned using them in a phone conversation.  Andy never said that he saw Roger use them.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to steven11's comment:

     

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    wait...what?  i think you are misremembering steven.

    pettitte def dropped the dime on clemens.  thats what got the whole ball of wax rolling on him. 

    did he not blame his wife?

    i'm not sure what your point is.  pettitte said RC did them.  clemens said he "misremembered".  funny stuff.  i admit, it is strange that a yankees player would be tied to steroid/ped use.  seems so rare...

     




    If you look at the court transcripts, Any says Roger mentioned using them in a phone conversation.  Andy never said that he saw Roger use them.

     



    It initially reported, Petitte was told about Clemens using steroids, by Brian Mcnamee. Pettite then approached Clemens on a charter flight and asked him why he "didn't tell me about this stuff"

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    wait...what?  i think you are misremembering steven.

    pettitte def dropped the dime on clemens.  thats what got the whole ball of wax rolling on him. 

    did he not blame his wife?

    i'm not sure what your point is.  pettitte said RC did them.  clemens said he "misremembered".  funny stuff.  i admit, it is strange that a yankees player would be tied to steroid/ped use.  seems so rare...

    [/QUOTE]


    Petite never stated..ever..that he saw Clemens use HGH or any banned substance. Petite claimed that he asked their mutual trainer about it because he heard Clemens talk about it.

    Later..at Clemens' hearing for perjury Petite stated that there was a 50-50 chance that he might have misunderstood what Clemens stated about HGH.  I'd hate to be convicted in a court of public opinion based on someone's 50-50 shot at getting something right.

    Clemens was ultimately acquitted of the perjury charge. Unsurprising since Petite was the star witness.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: should PEDRO have gone in by HIMSELF?

    i guess i am wrong?...apparently clemens was a saint and as stand up of a man as mr. ortiz...

    from ESPN....

    He was asked about his use of vitamin B-12, generally accepted in the United States as unnecessary except in extreme medical cases, and blamed his use on his late mother, who in 1988 told him to use it. Left unsaid was discussion of the Toronto Blue Jays' medical staff, which administered his B-12 shot. The medical staffs of all 30 major league teams have been told for years not to administer B-12 shots because most, if not all, world-class athletes do not need them.

    The committee decided early on that Clemens' friend, Andy Pettitte, was perhaps the most credible individual of the day, even though Pettitte did not testify in person. Pettitte admitted that McNamee told the truth in the Mitchell report. But when it came time for Clemens to confront Pettitte's recollections that implicated him, Clemens had only one response. Pettitte, he said, must have "misremembered" their conversations.

    And so, too, must have Pettitte's wife.

    Clemens said he knew "nothing" about growth hormone. In fact, Clemens said he learned more about growth hormone over the past month than he did during his whole career. He learned about HGH through magazine articles and his wife, Debbie. McNamee injected Debbie with HGH, Clemens said. And even though he welcomed McNamee into their home, Clemens wouldn't even take responsibility for that, either.

    When the committee found Clemens' former nanny to ask her to corroborate McNamee's claim that she was at a party hosted by Jose Canseco, not only did Clemens contact her, he blamed her testimony -- which the committee found to be truthful -- on, ironically, her poor command of English. When the committee told him it was inappropriate for him to contact the nanny before committee members could speak with her, Clemens said he was doing the committee "a favor."

    And when faced with the accumulation of facts -- that he was clearly involved in an unethical and illegal culture and aware that McNamee was not an expert professional, yet kept him in his employ -- Clemens relied on blinding the committee with his celebrity. He said he was simply too good. He was, as he said, "trusting to a fault."

    Ultimately, we did not learn that Roger Clemens lied, nor did we learn he did not. As expected, the truth lies somewhere in the creases of the memories of the people involved. What we did learn is that Roger Clemens had an answer for everything the committee asked him. At the ready, his finger was always pointing at a reason, but it was never at himself. And that is why so many of the committee members did not believe him.

     

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