Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    I never mentioned Gomez in RF.

    Sorry, I meant Gomes, who is barely tollerable in LF.

     

    I mentioned the insanity of Cherry and if he's insane then he should consider platooning Linares in RF if Bradley wasn't ready and he had smartly signed R. Johnson to a 2M one year deal. Since Bradley is ready, he could have then moved R. Johnson to RF.

    I don't get your mancrush on Johnson, even as a bridge player.

     

    It's quite stupid to construct a roster such that decisions are made, not to win games, but to try and save one year of arbitration vs. one year of FA at a market amount that you have no clue what it will be for that player 7 years from now.

    2 weeks for 1 year is worth the risk to find out.

     

    They aren't going to send David Murphy and a top prospect. Murphy is an everyday player with a high OPS for an OF'er. It only makes a ton of sense because the Rangers won't agree to it unless they send less than the top propsect with Murphy.

    Murphy has 1 year left at $5.8M, which would offset some of the cost of Ellsbury. His career  .841 OPS vs RHPs and .675 OPS vs LHPs makes him a platoon player not an everyday player. In fact, last year was his first season over 500 PAs and he had 437 PAs vs RHPs to 84 vs LHPs. (He only started 12 games vs LH'd starters). (He did hit lefties well last year, so perhaps he has grown into a near FT job by age 31.

    He would certainly reduce the value of the prospect more than 4 years of Moreland, and maybe we could offset that some by throwing in a blocked prospect of our own or maybe a Brentz if they'd part with a top pitching prospect.

     

    We both agree that what's going on now makes no sense at all.

    Not in light of the Dodger trade, no.

     

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Trade him before the season starts. That way the team that gets him gets the value of the comp draft pick when he bolts next winter. That value alone should net us a nice prospect. Add the 1 year value of Ellsbury and his potential to repeat 2011 to an actual ring-contending team, and we should get something very nice in return- something that will help us beyond 2014.

    I suppose if he is in the midst of another 2011 season by the deadline, we could trade him then, but I think we can get more now. The "don't sell low" argument is lame. We have to look at it this way: what has more value to a team that will be super lucky just to squeek into the wildcard game in 2013:

    1) The comp pick we get after Ellsbury walks next winter.

    or

    2) A valuable young player or top prospect who is under the team's control beyond 2015.

    I guess if you think we have a good shot at winning this year, I can understand you wanting choice #1 and then praying the draft choice turns into something useful, but if you are like me, and think we have next to no chance at winning a ring this year, then choice 2 looks as clear as day... a sunny day.

     




    So what team would take Ells', who actually needs him, and his 10M this year? Hes looked horrible so far this spring and it appears hes over swinging looking for the longball and ends up rolling over on the ball resulting in a lot of slow squibbers to 2nd.

     

    Would Texas take him? How much do you think they realistically view a comp pick? Personally, I dont think hes worth as much as some might think and I think that comp pick is over valued as well. Better to wait for the break unless they can get something thats worth something to them this year. Doesnt hurt to check with a couple teams...Im pretty sure he was trying to shop him this offseason and didnt get any good offers.

    I think Ells, Bailey and a kid like Brentz might get a better prospect to a team that is in contention in 2013-14. They also have to have the roster spots open. I dont think just Ells and bailey will do it. Forget Carp, hes worth nothing.The Sox paid next to nothing for him and can just let him walk.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    Rumor has it Boras is starting his own franchise, which shall include Ells, Cano, ARod, Manny, Damon, Braun, DiceK, Strasburg etc. Also, no forum associated with Edith/2004Idiots/a bunch of other names based on the same or other posters shall be allowed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    2 weeks for 1 year is worth the risk to find out.

     The division will come down to games over 2 weeks. The Red Sox do not need to be worrying about what the difference will be in Bradley's arbitration award and one year of his FA costs.

     

     



    This sounds like what you said about "TB will not go away". Yeah, we might be technically "in it" with 2 weeks to go, but there is virtually no chance we advance very far, and you know it and have spouted it often this winter.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Get back to me when 2M for 1 years is a "mancrush", which is a slang regarding sexual proclivity. R. Johnson is lower than Hermida, who you claimed was "a great pick-up".



    I never said Hermida was a "great" pick up. I don't understand your need to misrepresent poster's positions.

    It's not the $2M, it's the constant repeating of your suggestion about picking up a 4th OF'er profile as some kind of remedy to keeping us in the playoff hunt. I'd rather just go with Sweeney, Linares, Nava, Gomes, or Brentz when healthy than bother with Johnson. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    His career  .841 OPS vs RHPs and .675 OPS vs LHPs makes him a platoon player not an everyday player. In fact, last year was his first season over 500 PAs and he had 437 PAs vs RHPs to 84 vs LHPs. (He only started 12 games vs LH'd starters

    147 games for 2012, .859 OPS, 138 and 120 games in the prior years.

    Try again, Murphy is a full-time MLB, and has been one for 3 years. Someone else was the bench guy.



    He has sat vs almost all LH'd starters over the past 3 seasosn, but if you want to call that FT, you stand alone with your defintiion (not the first time).

    2012: Texas faced 47 LH'd starters: Murphy started 12 (.292/.377/.369/.746)

    2011: Texas faced 47 LH'd starters: Murphy started 28 (.216/.279/.303/.585)

    2010: Texas faced 51 LH'd starters: Murphy started 29 (.250/.311/.295/.606)

    He has started vs LHPs in 69 out of 155 games. Maybe that's not a trict platoon, but I'd hardly call that an "everyday player". He has started 105, 105, and 125 games the last 3 seasons: that's 335 out of a possible 486. Less than 69% of the games is not "everyday".

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    The Dodgers trade is not "what's going on now".

    The Dodgers "trade" amounted to getting fleeced for another 12M plus, on top of what they gave away for Crawbust's time with the Red Sox. Agon has opened a hole that the Red Sox have someone named Carp. Beckett could have been written off without going with AGon, and would have netted more if traded separately. And instead of Shane, they could have waited until Crawbust returned, he's ready now with the Dodgers, and could have written him off seprately once his value rose off the lowest it could possible have been. AGon was a perfect void filler for the aging out Ortiz, and provided high quality on both sides of the baseball. Agon, alone would have netted a solid young MLB starter and a top prospect.

    The Dodgers deal was not "the deal of the century".  What it was Red Sox management's sweeping the mistake of the century under the rug.

     



    Ther trade did admit the "big mistake", put paying just $12M to rid ourselves of $260M was close to the deal on my lifetime.

    Yes, the hole left by AGon is huge, but having AGon now was not going to win us a ring anyways, and dumping CC, Josh and Punto's contracts should have provided us with the flexibility to improve quickly over the following 2-3 years. Just because we messed up this winter, doesn't change the call on the Dodger trade.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    What pitcher should the Red Sox look to trade for or acquire via 2014 FA? Please provide exact names and exact trade offers and/or FA years contract budget to make sure that pitcher is signed. If you don't do so, I'll assume it's still McCarthy and Marcum, since you have stated that A. Sanchez isn't the one you would have acquired.

     



    I already provided the names countless time, but you bashed the ideas, then pretend I never have been specific.

    My main target was Brett Anderson: you called him a "bum", then said my offer was not large enough- I think it was something like: Salty or Lava (before they got Jaso), Aviles (before he was tarded), Cecchini, and a choice from Tazawa, Morales or Owens. Later, after Aviles was dealt, I mentioned that if Ben was not ever going to play Iggy (and only based on that condition), I'd offer him instead of Aviles.

    Last year, you called my suggestion to get Gio Gonzalez "absurd". I know he only did very well in AAAA, but my offer was better than what the nats gave up, and Gio was better than anyone else we had last year, even if you add 1.50 to his ERA.

    How did all thos $1M offer pitchers you wanted do last year as they got paid $2-3M a year?

    B McCarthy at $25M/3 would have landed him, and he's be cheaper and longer controlled, and younger than Dempster. Marcum is like your Reed johnson suggestion- a back-up signing.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    The real Burrito T posted a link to Rick Porcellos worth and It came out to be Jacoby Ellsbury. Heres the link

    cthttp://www.blessyouboys.com/2013/3/21/4120960/rick-porcellos-true-trade-value-and-what-we-should-reasonably-expect

    Although I imagine it would take another lower level prospect to get him, as well as Ellsbury. But since they already have a CF'er, I dont see this happening.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

     

    Perfect trade if the Red Sox are flailing in July.

     




    perfect trade right now too, IMO...Tiggers would get that comp pick

     

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

     

    I also like to have had Brett Anderson, McCarthy or Marcum.

    Anderson seems to be fine after his surgery.  Just ask the Detroit Tigers who got shut out for six innings with only two hits during game 3 of the ALDS.  

    I know that McCarthy and Marcum have dealt with injuries.  But even if we got 15 to 20 starts from them, it would still be a bargain considering how much Arizona and New York paid them.  

    I also know that McCarthy wanted to stay in the west coast.  But $$$ talks.  LOL

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    No OF'er who plays in over 140 games is anything less than an everyday player! Give that up, with the "he only hits vs. x percentage of LH starters". Frankly, the Rangers are too smart to give up a player who offers durability and production that Ellsbury does not possess.



    You just wrote this:

    Try again, Murphy is a full-time MLB, and has been one for 3 years. Someone else was the bench guy.

    But, then ignored this: 

    He has started 105, 105, and 125 games the last 3 seasons: that's 335 out of a possible 486. Less than 69% of the games is not "everyday".

     

    That's an average of about 112 games per season- well below your own stated threshhold of 140 games.

    If Murphy flipped his splits and was better vs LHPs, he'd still be a platoon player, as he has been the last 3 years. Yes, last year he became more of an everyday player due to injuries to other players, but you set the bar at "the last 3 years" and "140 games". 

    How's this...maybe they'd take Ellsbury, Victorino, Bailey, and cash for Murphy and a top prospect.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    I doubt jacoby goes anywhere.  He draws the fans and this is what they need right now.



    I've seen his drawings. He's a terrible artist. We should trade him now.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Should the Boston Red Sox Trade Jacoby Ellsbury by the trading deadline/sign him/let him walk?

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

    I also like to have had Brett Anderson, McCarthy or Marcum.

    Anderson seems to be fine after his surgery.  Just ask the Detroit Tigers who got shut out for six innings with only two hits during game 3 of the ALDS.  

    I know that McCarthy and Marcum have dealt with injuries.  But even if we got 15 to 20 starts from them, it would still be a bargain considering how much Arizona and New York paid them.  

    I also know that McCarthy wanted to stay in the west coast.  But $$$ talks.  LOL

     

     



    ...and getting McCarthy for 3 years at less than Dempster cost for 2 years is the best part. 2015 could be the year.

     
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