Should Valentine be fired??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomp4. Show boomp4's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    Very little of this is Valentine's fault. He wasn't even allowed to choose his own coaches. He wasn't involved in the personnel decisions that gave him a pitching staff that is TENTH in the league. Managers cannot make wine out of water. Here is a good article about the restrictions placed on him in this job, with apologies if its posted elsewhere: Conditioned for failure Sox manager’s job comes with caveats Ron Borges Funny the things you stumble across while perusing the help wanted section on Monster.com. TOP MANAGEMENT POSITION AVAILABLE IN BOSTON JOB DESCRIPTION: High-stress, high-profile, low-paying management employment. Must accept full responsibility for anything that goes wrong and take no credit for anything that goes right. Low self-esteem a decided asset for this position. CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT: • Cannot criticize employees. • Cannot make sarcastic remarks in the workplace. • Cannot fill out lineup card without first consulting with team doctor, team trainer, team masseuse, team chiropractor, team dentist, team orthodontist, team psychiatrist, team psychologist, team ophthalmologist, team nutritionist, team physical therapist, team bus driver and closest two relatives of all uniformed team employees. • Cannot have prior knowledge of any assistants. Can, however, hire one friend to look over the shoulder of company-appointed top aide-de-camp just to be sure none of you trust each other. • Can use the word “snitch” when discussing team matters but cannot use snitch’s name . . . except on the lineup card. • Cannot speak to any assistants unless they speak to you first. Exception made if you must call the bullpen, but please keep it brief. • Cannot expect full effort from employees more than four days in a row by order of medical staff. • Cannot ask pitching coach to go to the mound against his will. It’s a long walk on humid nights. • Cannot speak to rookies in surly manner. Example of acceptable approach: Please say “Sir” when addressing Sir Will Middlebrooks. • Cannot point out booting two balls in same inning is somewhat below company expectations, as we no longer have any expectations in this company. We feel expectations are too stressful on the employees. Exception made for sales staff. • Must make every exchange a positive work experience. Example: “Sir Will, I understand those balls were nigh impossible to catch, seeing as how they were bouncing along the ground at such a rapid clip. We appreciate your efforts, failed though they might have been. Keep up the good work . . . if you’d like. If not, we understand the pressure you’re under here at Camp Yawkey Fields.” • Cannot suggest a struggling starting pitcher work out of the bullpen. This is considered threatening to his (or her) self-esteem and could lead to a spate of hit batsmen, walks, loud doubles off The Wall (good seats available there for your friends, $200 each) and public embarrassment. Company position is you are the only employee who can be publicly embarrassed. • Cannot order out during games but your employees can. A man gets hungry on the job, especially if he has to watch others doing it while he rests four days out of every five. • Cannot speak to the media in a flippant manner. They don’t appreciate it. • Will be provided voluminous statistical assistance. Some might actually mean something. We will tell you what does and what does not after the night’s work is done and HAL is consulted. • Consultant available at all times to help you make decisions. He lives in Kansas, right next door to Auntie Em. Easy to find if you care to visit him; just take a right at the statue of Joe Paterno. • You may ride your bike to work but please don’t expect employees to ride bikes. They might pull an oblique. • Full medical insurance provided, including employee assistance program. Feel free to make use of the latter. Your secrets are safe with us. Just ask the last guy in this job. • You will be provided a full complement of pitchers. Some may appear to be made out of tissue paper but try to be understanding. They only get 18 days off a year, or so we’ve been told. We insist you factor in the difficulty of their lives in any and all decision making. • Full strength and conditioning staff on hand. Well-stocked weight room available, although much of the equipment is a little dusty these days. • No sit-ups allowed. • You may show training videos on clubhouse TVs at spring training but once team arrives in Boston, abandon this practice. Many uniformed employees are ardent followers of “The Young and the Restless” and “Judge Judy.” Why do you think we call it a “clubhouse” and not a “workplace?” • Must buy at least 10 Red Sox [team stats] bricks per year. Adobe doesn’t come cheap in Boston. • Must be open to team concept. After all, it’s what we’re all about. • Job includes regular radio and TV appearances. It is expected you will say nothing on them. Failure to adhere to this policy could result in apologizing to any offended employee. • Cannot write a book about the insanity of your working conditions after you leave unless published by Fenway Park [map] Press. Please send applications, resume and references to: Larry “Lucky” Lucchino 4 Yawkey Way Boston, MA 02215
    Posted by pumpsie-green


    Right on target.

    The players need an attitude adjustment and the manager needs to hire his own coaches. One more thing the FO should manage the business and not the lineup card. The metrics produced upstairs only tell what a player has done and not what he will do. Think Adam Dunn last year.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jb12bb. Show jb12bb's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    He never should have hired in the first place, but to answer the question yes he should be let go as well as the pitching coach Mcclure.  Neither of them have done anything to help this club get over the hump.  Leave the team to Bogar for the last two months and pray for the best.

    Hope that John Farrell wants to leave Toronto for the cash, but I doubt it.

    This team needs a shot in the arm and a new direction.  Players should be embarassed on how they finish games, and how lifeless the dugout looks during games.

    Players  need to know that there jobs are not safe and regardless of money you will have to perform for your job.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from august271985. Show august271985's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    Some of you are delusional. Remember last September? Remember the manager we had- everyone loved him, he was a great communicator, he never did anything to rock the boat. What did all that get us? The worst September collapse in MLB history. Imagine that- the players quit on a "player's manager."

    It's the players- and the ridiculous work culture that's been created by the ownership and upper management. No manager will be able to succeed until we blow up the team and create a different culture. Firing BV is like putting a band-aid on a humongous tumor.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jh13. Show jh13's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    The players wouldn't play hard for Tito.
    The players won't play hard for Valentine.

    the problem isn't the manager.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? :
    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? : Dude, we're fans, not members of the media. We're not supposed to be impartial or objective. Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE That explains my fault at finding Moonslav, Ramicap, Notin, Breidy, Beantowne, JimfromFlorida, SinceYaz, - credible and worthy of reading. I seek truth and not mere entertainment. Every dumb sob has an opinion. What many come here for is reason. logic, impartiality, credibility, statements based on fact and not opinion or grudges. Don't come here with a personal agenda based on ego or past positions, be flexible, humble, - not obstinate / headstrong.
    Posted by Calzone65


    True, Calzone: some opinions, those backed up by the facts, are more believable than others. That said, I see nothing wrong with someone offering their opinion here and not backing it up with facts as long as they don't pass it off as a fact.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? : But your good buddies Andrewmitch and DannyCater do it 24/7. All opinions and little facts.
    Posted by Calzone65


    You seem smart enough to know how to diffentiate when someone is presenting an opinion and when someone is presenting an opinion as fact. Why not use a little common sense?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? : Exactly how does negate the # of trips to and days on the DL for 22 players. Is it fault for the inconsistent offense and lack of clutch hitting? Are the pitching performances of Beckett and Lester also his fault />
    Posted by Calzone65


    You answered your own question...Beckett and Lester can't stand the guy. Do you think .... Those two pitchers are really this bad???? Don't have to think long on that one. They are not alone. Everyone playing bad this year??? Hello there. Guys like you are FOOLED real easy .... Ilove saying this....PLAYERS HATE THE GUY !!!!!!!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? : No, I thought Nomar got screwed bigtime....still do. _________________________________ Curt Schilling Deadbeat Fraud Clown
    Posted by bellhorn_


    "Nomar got screwed???"

    A bit of revisionist history!  Nomar was pushing HARD, playing major league hardball visa vi getting a HUGE contract.  The RS offered him a VERY lucrative contract, but he and his agent refused said offer, choosing to bank on THE BIG PAYDAY!  Frustrated by the reluctance of the FO to give him what he wanted, Nomar became a brooding malcontent, who was becoming a major distraction.  I specifically remember watching Nomy sit on his hand while the rest of the team was up, off the bench, hanging on the dugout railing, cheering on their teammates in a couple of nailbiters, shortly before he was dealt.  He also foolishly hurt himself playing soccer with his girlfriend in the off season.

    While I do feel badly for what ultimately happened to Nomar, where injury never allowed him to become the player he once was again, & secure one last big payday, which the Sox had offered him, it was of his own making!!!  Still love the guy for all he did as a Red Sox player & Boston community member, but HE TURNED DOWN THE OFFER.

    Live by the sword, die by the sword! Play hardball in contract negotiations by turning down the "huge" contract, in the attempt to force a "MEGA" contract......
    You risk getting no contract with that team.  Simple as that.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bingobilly. Show bingobilly's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    It's a given...  The RS are the worst all-around team in baseball therefore, the usual and expected course of action is to fire management.  Valentine is the common sense firing but apparently this ownership needs to continue to clean house, i.e medical staff, training staff, "certain" players...
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Motown9009. Show Motown9009's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    History backs up getting rid of Nomar and Pedro when we did. Your opinions are worthless, just look at the facts.
    Posted by Calzone65


    Sure, getting rid of them was smart since they both ended up breaking down a couple of years later. That's fine. It's the smear campaign that comes with them leaving that wasn't fair. Pedro is a prima donna who only cares about money and Nomar hates Boston. Actually I remember the whole "Nomar's going back to California" thing being spoken about like it was the gospel for a while there to. Only when he hit free agency he re-signed with Chicago. Which isn't in California. The Red Sox offered him a contract. He felt he was worth more. A player and a team disagreeing on how much he should be paid, imagine that! So they try to work out this A-Rod/Manny/Nomar/Maglio deal, which Nomar knows nothing about, and then when it falls through Nomar's not thrilled with the front office, mostly because he was under the impression they would workout a long term deal eventually and found out in the paper on his honeymoon that they have a deal in place to trade him if they can pull off this other deal first.

    But as years went on it's really nothing new, is it? Anyone who leaves town is a washed up jerk we should be happy to be rid of. It might've worked the first few times but do you really think everyone who leaves on bad terms is just a jerk and it has nothing to do with how the front office treats people?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    Some of you are delusional. Remember last September? Remember the manager we had- everyone loved him, he was a great communicator, he never did anything to rock the boat. What did all that get us? The worst September collapse in MLB history. Imagine that- the players quit on a "player's manager." It's the players- and the ridiculous work culture that's been created by the ownership and upper management. No manager will be able to succeed until we blow up the team and create a different culture. Firing BV is like putting a band-aid on a humongous tumor.
    Posted by august271985


    firing Bobby V would get rid of the tumor. Are you delusional............The TEAM hate BV ....Any way you want to put a twist on this....Repeat..........THE TEAM hates BV.....period !!!!!!!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Motown9009. Show Motown9009's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??


    I like Valentine, he's a smart baseball guy, but it just doesn't seem to translate to success as a manger.

    I can't see them firing him. They dumped last year on Francona, wouldn't hire Sveum and wanted nobody but Valentine. How can they fire him without looking bad? It shows it wasn't Francona's fault, it shows there's something wrong with the team, it shows hiring Valentine was a mistake.  I just can't see them doing it, unless they arrange for him to "step down" so everyone saves face.

     
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? : well....you seem like a simple minded guy and the Nomar-hating Boston media at the time wrapped up the whole Nomar story for you with a nice bow......it was intended for folks like yourself to slurp up with a spoon.  Just another example of how powerful the media can be when they (gleefully) have an axe to grind. _________________________________ Curt Schilling Deadbeat Fraud Clown
    Posted by bellhorn_


    bellhorn, i agree. Nomar's plight was over-exaggerated. His time in Boston was trivialized at the end as if everything he did for the team meant nothing. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? : well....you seem like a simple minded guy and the Nomar-hating Boston media at the time wrapped up the whole Nomar story for you with a nice bow......it was intended for folks like yourself to slurp up with a spoon.  Just another example of how powerful the media can be when they (gleefully) have an axe to grind. _________________________________ Curt Schilling Deadbeat Fraud Clown
    Posted by bellhorn_


    Not my opinions bellhorn.  Simply facts!  I guess you have some "inside information" that none of us unsuspecting simple-minded fans had at the time.  My reading of what was offered, plus what I objectively observed, has nothing to do with any media "spin."

    I guess you know better???  You so smaaat!  :)  Lighten up dude!  You're getting hostile for no reason.

    Please enlighten me?

    1)  Was Nomar offered anything?
    2)  If so, what?
    3)  Did he accept it?  NO!
    4)  Did you watch the games that season?
    5)  Did you observe any troubling behavior by Nomar on the bench?
    6)  If not in real time, did you catch highlights?
    7)  Did millions of RS fans observe and comment on questionable behavior by Nomar?
    8)  Were any of the criticisms by fans fair?
    9)  Were many of the concerns recurrent?
    10)  Do you think they had anything to do with being offered a GREAT contract, as opposed to the MEGA contract he wanted?
    11)  Who's choice was it to turn down the contract offered? 

    Perhaps you could enlighten the uninitiated fan with your inside knowledge????

    oh..... p.s.   Try not being such a d ick about it!  I didn't attack you!  I simply put forth what I knew to be fact!  You disagree?  NO Problem!  Say what you know, but don't be a complete f'n d b a g about it!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    bellhorn,

    p.p.s....   I liked Nomar!  I appreciate and respect what he did for the Sox over his career in Boston!  I still love the guy!

    Unfortunately, things soured at the end.  The media did eat him for lunch, and much of it was not deserved! 

    Still....  He turned down a contract, & his attitude did seem to suffer.

    Perhaps we're on different pages & arguing about two different things?  Not sure exactly what was so offensive about my reply to you????
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    p.p.p.s

    I do agree that many in the media often have an axe to grind with respect to certain players.  That's not what I was arguing.  If that was your point, that Nomar got the "pile on" treatment????   You have a valid point.

    Just lighten up Francis  :)
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    I guess you're not even interested in admitting he was offered a contract???

    That there were no issues with respect to his behavior in the dugout?

    Easy way out.  Simple questions!

    Yet you still have to get in the "brainwashed" comment without backing it up.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Motown9009. Show Motown9009's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? : Not my opinions bellhorn.  Simply facts!  I guess you have some "inside information" that none of us unsuspecting simple-minded fans had at the time.  My reading of what was offered, plus what I objectively observed, has nothing to do with any media "spin." I guess you know better???  You so smaaat!  :)  Lighten up dude!  You're getting hostile for no reason. Please enlighten me? 1)  Was Nomar offered anything? 2)  If so, what? 3)  Did he accept it?  NO! 4)  Did you watch the games that season? 5)  Did you observe any troubling behavior by Nomar on the bench? 6)  If not in real time, did you catch highlights? 7)  Did millions of RS fans observe and comment on questionable behavior by Nomar? 8)  Were any of the criticisms by fans fair? 9)  Were many of the concerns recurrent? 10)  Do you think they had anything to do with being offered a GREAT contract, as opposed to the MEGA contract he wanted? 11)  Who's choice was it to turn down the contract offered?  Perhaps you could enlighten the uninitiated fan with your inside knowledge???? oh..... p.s.   Try not being such a d ick about it!  I didn't attack you!  I simply put forth what I knew to be fact!  You disagree?  NO Problem!  Say what you know, but don't be a complete f'n d b a g about it!
    Posted by redsoxdirtdog


    But it wasn't just the money. They made an offer, Nomar turns it down. Nomar makes a counter-offer, they turn it down. Okay, they're negotiating. Next thing you know they have a trade lined up to send him to Chicago that he knew nothing about, and found out about on his honeymoon. Nomar is under the impression that they're negotiating and both sides want an extension, then he finds out they're looking to trade him. He didn't take it well.

    As for the contract, I believe it was 4 years/$60 million. Yes, that's a lot of money, but it's not that big of a contract by baseball standards. Nomar was an All Star, and their franchise player at this point. The contract he supposedly countered with ($72 million) wasn't that unreasonable. But again, it's negotiating, they want to pay him something, he wants to be paid something, they try to get what they want and typically settle in the middle. Only the front office decided if he wasn't taking $60 he wasn't getting $72 and they were sending him to Chicago.

    You're right in how he acted. He was openly unhappy after that but the key words are "after that". The media, and then the front office, then went into spin mode and made it seem like Nomar has always hated Boston and everything about it and couldn't wait to bolt to California when his contract was up.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    bellhorn, wow, I thought I was in the minority. Never seen a Red Sox so bashed in such a short period of time after delivering pretty impressive baseball from the time he entered Boston in 1996. From 97 to 2003, his statistical line was flat out All-Star, MVP caliber. That was without the defense (moon and I differ greatly on his D). He was batting .321 when he was "sulking." Manny hit a HR the day before he got traded, and also had good numbers when he was dealt.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ArkaSox. Show ArkaSox's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    For eight years Tito believed in this team and the team believed in him. It paid off twice and then unfortunately the string ran out.

    Bobby V sat in front of a camera and maligned this team and it’s players every chance he got, continually comparing them to the yankee’s and telling the viewers, how they just weren’t as good. What would make me or any other fan believe he has this teams best interest at heart. All this is, is a pay check for him and a chance for him to keep his ego on Baseball Tonight, every night.   

    Poor Bobby V isn’t able to run this team the way he wants. Did anyone ever think that, just maybe, it’s that way for a reason? It took forever for The Red Sox to name a Manager last year and Bobby V was all they could get. Was it because no self-respecting baseball person wanted the job after the Tito debacle….we’ll never know?

    Bobby V is a Kleenex Manager, use him once an throw him away.

    The idea of blowing up this team is more then ludicrous, it’s total insanity.

    All this team need’s is a real Manager, a real baseball guy. Not an ex-ESPN talking head, who never won anything.

     
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