Should Valentine be fired??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    [QUOTE]I had the interest and motivation of going into this subject in detail in 2003, 2004, and 2005.....I'm still exhausted from trying to unbrainwash the brainwashed 7 years later......not interested anymore.....you believe what you want to believe......cheers. _________________________________ Curt Schilling Deadbeat Fraud Clown
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]

    No problem Bell!  No worries!

    I see how you operate.  Make general statements.  Call everyone who responds with substantive questions fool, tools, brainwashed, etc. & cling to the la la la la la la la, I'm right you're a fool 4th grade debate format, while ignoring simple questions.....

    Good on ya!

    Cool!  got it :)
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    great post, Motown records. You'd have thought Nomar shot your dog the way the press went into attack mode. The Jeter game was in itself bizarre. Could never get the straight story, Nomar asked to come into that game even if he originally acted poorly that evening. It was a power move by Tito (the guy everyone thinks doesn't manage), and it then became the poster video to trade him or get him out of town. Fact is that Cabrera was phenomenal at SS and that it made it easy to tear into Nomar and say that he was the "cancer" that had to be eradicated before Sox won it. Same type of venom thrown to Joe Thornton when he was traded by B's. Thornton played with broken ribs and was booed by the fans in the Montreal series of 2003--the team management instead of defending him threw him under a bus. Nomar was also thrown under the bus. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    calzone, NOMAR WANTED INTO THAT GAME...Tito said no and refused to put him in when the game was close and on the line, even as a pinch hitter. Get your facts straight.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    I think BV needs to go.  He is obviously not the only reason that this team has been hovering around .500 for most of the season, but I honestly feel that our record would be better if Tito were still here.

    It doesn't matter whether the players like him or not.  IMO, the players don't respect him, and that is a huge problem. 

    At the very least, he makes it very difficult for the team to play with any focus because of things that are said or leaked to the media.  We fans should have never found out about the Middlebrooks incident, for example. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? : But it wasn't just the money. They made an offer, Nomar turns it down. Nomar makes a counter-offer, they turn it down. Okay, they're negotiating. Next thing you know they have a trade lined up to send him to Chicago that he knew nothing about, and found out about on his honeymoon. Nomar is under the impression that they're negotiating and both sides want an extension, then he finds out they're looking to trade him. He didn't take it well. As for the contract, I believe it was 4 years/$60 million. Yes, that's a lot of money, but it's not that big of a contract by baseball standards. Nomar was an All Star, and their franchise player at this point. The contract he supposedly countered with ($72 million) wasn't that unreasonable. But again, it's negotiating, they want to pay him something, he wants to be paid something, they try to get what they want and typically settle in the middle. Only the front office decided if he wasn't taking $60 he wasn't getting $72 and they were sending him to Chicago. You're right in how he acted. He was openly unhappy after that but the key words are "after that". The media, and then the front office, then went into spin mode and made it seem like Nomar has always hated Boston and everything about it and couldn't wait to bolt to California when his contract was up.
    Posted by Motown9009[/QUOTE]

    Well put Motown!  Cudos on the big boy response!!!  I agree with most of it, but still posit the obvious.  I think they knew Nomar was not going to accept their highest offer, then made a professional decision.

    Both sides had a right to feel frustrated.  Nomar kind of blew the negotiations though.  In hindsight, it's clear he should have accepted the offer.

    I do feel bad for him though!  & he was kind of savaged by many in the Boston Sports Media.  :(
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    Nomar's agent flat out advised him to turn it down and felt it was not enough to warrant his production. Market value or not, everything is 20-20 hindsight on Nomar making a poor business move. At the time, he was a marquee top 3 in MLB SS with some of the greatest stat numbers EVER RECORDED BY A SS.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    [QUOTE]Nomar's agent flat out advised him to turn it down and felt it was not enough to warrant his production. Market value or not, everything is 20-20 hindsight on Nomar making a poor business move. At the time, he was a marquee top 3 in MLB SS with some of the greatest stat numbers EVER RECORDED BY A SS.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Yes!  Very true!!!  Still, he turned it down.  His agent blew it!  Very bad advice!!

    While it went over the top w/ the media, some fan frustration with Nomar was warranted.  Not the savage stuff though!

    He was a GREAT player for Boston! Most fans know & appreciate that!
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    He is probably never going to be a fit with this team. Farrell is the real prize here so the Sox might wait with Bobby V until he is availible.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    On the Sox, the only "ultra-important" game is when they are about to be eliminated and even then, we saw what kind of effort they put in for that contest....Choke city.   And no, Nomar did not refuse to enter the game. Ask Tito. Nomar told him in the 6th inning, he could come in, but Tito was furious with him and said to go back and sit down. That's what happened that night. The Schilling quote was directly spun as were the last moments of Manny's Sox career-spun to maintain that it was the Sox v. the Enemy--the enemy being Nomar in 2004 and Manny in 2008.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    Lowe was an alcoholic, Cabrera a womanizer, Pedro a diva, Nomar a sulker, Manny a menace....the list goes on and on..Even Youkilis, at the very end, portrayed as another..sulker and cancer.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    [QUOTE]Lowe was an alcoholic, Cabrera a womanizer, Pedro a diva, Nomar a sulker, Manny a menace....the list goes on and on..Even Youkilis, at the very end, portrayed as another..sulker and cancer.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Lowe was a party animal!! 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fenwayjimy. Show Fenwayjimy's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    Was it Bob Ryan who refused to speak out about Cabrera messing with Foulke's wife because he didn't want to be sued? Where are Ryan's columns?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? : Ownership should be ashamed of themselves for not backing Bobby on this and enabling Dustbin the Ratfaced Boy. _________________________________ Curt Schilling Deadbeat Fraud Clown
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]

    Funny how that goes.

    When this all got started, everyone wanted Beckett axed, followed by Lester, lackey, maybe Buchholz.

    The only guy we got rid of was Youk.  And now you want Pedroia gone also.

    All this so no one will have to admit that BV is the worst manager in BB?

    When we get rid of Pedroia, who's next?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    [QUOTE]Nomar's agent flat out advised him to turn it down and felt it was not enough to warrant his production. Market value or not, everything is 20-20 hindsight on Nomar making a poor business move. At the time, he was a marquee top 3 in MLB SS with some of the greatest stat numbers EVER RECORDED BY A SS.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    He had been.  He had two fairly major injuries in 4 years.  His OPS was trending downward, and his range greatly diminshed.  He was still a talent, but he wasn't ARod or Jeter at that point, and I had considered him #2.  The $60M/4 was a very fair deal.  He just couldn't see past the crazy deal ARod had gotten.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    I can't believe it comes down to this question. How about holding the players responsible for doing their jobs? How this has become about firing Bobby V is crazy. Is he the best fit. No, most likely not. But is he to blame for this season's horrible showing thus far? I don't think so. This Sox team fell apart last season under Fracona's watch. And now they are still underacheiving and still fallen apart. It is pretty much the players who need to take responsibility for their lack of play thus far.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonOfLilith. Show SonOfLilith's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    Probably not but he will if the losing continues, i'm ashamed of this team and organization. If Francona was not fired last season and this present team played the same way- Tito would of been gone at the end of april, most definitely by the all-star break..
     I do strongly believe the arcitect of building this team 10 yr's ago was Luchino and Theo was the puppet. After 4-5 yr's of Lucky telling him this and that- he split,John Henry says please Larry give him the keys to the car once for all..

     Theo binges and destroys this club in free agency and ownership has had enough, now larry has to clean up the mess and it won't be easy but i'll bet every last dollar he'll do it before theo turns the cubs around....
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fenwayjimy. Show Fenwayjimy's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    Good post Antiqueman. Why others never blame the group of players is confounding.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Motown9009. Show Motown9009's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired?? : He had been.  He had two fairly major injuries in 4 years.  His OPS was trending downward, and his range greatly diminshed.  He was still a talent, but he wasn't ARod or Jeter at that point, and I had considered him #2.  The $60M/4 was a very fair deal.  He just couldn't see past the crazy deal ARod had gotten.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]
    That's all true, and I don't disagree that the offer they gave him was fair. They thought he was worth a certain amount, he thought he was worth more, nothing out of the ordinary there, that's pretty much every negotiation in baseball. The issue is that were in negotiations with him, then decided to go in another direction, which Nomar wasn't aware of. That doesn't work out for them so they're stuck with Nomar, who now has a problem with the team. Then they turn around and act like Nomar hated Boston, wanted out all along, had plans to leave via free agency to go home to California (I think the Angles were the team they said he wanted to play for), and that turning down their offer was proof of this. According to Nomar it was as simple as him turning down an offer because he felt he deserved more, but the team then used it to justify trading him without taking any responsibility. If they felt $60 million was fair, fine, just admit they were trading him because he wanted too much money. He did have a problem with the front office after that winter, no doubt about that, so if that's why they're trading him, fine, just say it but take responsibility for the part they played in the falling out. I don't blame him - he's their franchise player and as far as he knows they're supposed to be working out a long term deal and then he finds out in the paper he's been traded to Chicago pending the A-Rod deal going through. ....but they can't just do that, they act like they do nothing wrong ever and when a player leaves town they do this smear campaign against them. Maybe he wasn't worth the money at the time, he certainly wouldn't have been worth it had he signed and had the same injury problems he had the rest of his career, but that's not how it was portrayed - it was portrayed that Nomar hated Boston, the team, the media, the city, the fans, and was itching to go back to California when there's never been anything to back that up. He re-signed in Chicago. That's not California. Didn't he spend time in Boston during the off-season? Couldn't have hated it that much. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Motown9009. Show Motown9009's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    In Response to Re: Should Valentine be fired??:
    [QUOTE]Lowe was an alcoholic, Cabrera a womanizer, Pedro a diva, Nomar a sulker, Manny a menace....the list goes on and on..Even Youkilis, at the very end, portrayed as another..sulker and cancer.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    Exactly. Some of it would be believable if they didn't have some dirt story for everyone who leaves town. Nobody leaves Boston on good terms. It's just their way over covering themselves. Trading Nomar for two lesser players was a risk. It worked out (which in retrospect gave them the belief that every unconventional move they make will turn out fine) but just incase it didn't, Nomar hates Boston and is milking an injury to stick it to everyone....Cabrera did well here, but he wasn't as statistically sexy as Renteria, so Cabrera's after everyone's wife and he had to go, so, even if Renteria doesn't work out, what else could they do? They had to replace Cabrera....They had their eye on Matt Clement for a while. Lowe was a playoff hero who didn't get as much as a lowball offer to stay because it was Matt Clement time. And if you're confused or unhappy over that move, keep in mind Lowe is a raging alcoholic so they had to get rid of him...and let's not even get into the whole Manny situation where there was no reason to not pick up his options coming off a World Series win other than them being them and having to do things difficultly....unless you never played a game in Boston and have great sabermetrics, then you can write your own cheque.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    .but they can't just do that, they act like they do nothing wrong ever and when a player leaves town they do this smear campaign against them. 

    I didn't see much of a smear job.  Generally you do that to prove that you were right.  The record itself proved that  they were right.  And they did re-sign him so that he could retire as a RS player.  I thought it was handled pretty well all-around.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fenwayjimy. Show Fenwayjimy's posts

    Re: Should Valentine be fired??

    Motown, I  never saw it that way but then you must read different columnists than I did at the time. The only facts that we have is what we see on the games on TV, the postgame, ESPN etc, and newspapers. Anything else is guesswork. Do you live in Detroit?
     

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