Showed it last year - Confirmed now

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from gbman87603. Show gbman87603's posts

    Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    Sorry in advance for the length...

    The amount of holes on this 180 million dollar team is mind boggling. They DON’T have an ace, that’s right, Lester is not an Ace. Is he their best starter? Obviously. He has never been a late inning pitcher, and has the ability to blow up on occasion like he did last night. How often do you see CC, Doc, Cliff Lee, Kershaw, go 2 innings? Never. Their bad starts are 6+ innings of grinding through a day where they don’t have their best stuff….When the sox pitchers don’t have their best, they get rocked. 
     

    Not one change was made from last year…..guess what? Youk is still on the decline. No one on this board is an expert, but his amount of swings and misses are telling. They gave up one of their only players who produced for 162 games last year (Scutaro), and the other (Ellsbury) is now hurt. 18 million a year for an above average speed player (Crawford) who hasn’t yet hit the field as the player he was in 2010…and may never. 16 million sitting on a recliner resting his surgically repaired elbow (Lackey). 15 Million in a starter who has flashed Ace stuff throughout his career (Beckett), but has only had one start to finish year of that high quality stuff (2007).  

    The reality is, no matter what anyone says; this team is not good enough. Their pitching is well below the status of New York and Tampa….and as we saw last year and so far this year, their offense crushes mediocre pitching while routinely getting shut out by high quality pitching. Remember the days when the sox offense used to shine against the best in the league (2002-2004)? Maybe this was their plan. Don’t work hard to make the necessary changes in the off-season and MAYBE they will either put it together and win, or be so bad people cant turn away from it. 5 years ago I could have sworn this would have been the Yankees. Older, less talented, and over paid….but now it looks like the Yankees are the model money spending franchise…and the Rays are the model low budget franchise…and that leaves the sox in their dust.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    SP should be fine, most teams would be thrilled to have Lester, Beckett, Buchholz as their top 3.  Bard and Doubs look ok so far, Dice back soon.

    Scutaro was a utility infielder!  Are you saying Aviles hasn't been as good so far....for half the money?!

    Youk is an issue, but it's a tiny sample survey and he was signed and untradeable anyway.

    Ellsbury got hurt, why is that in the list?

    Calm down, we had a far worse start last year and seemed to have clinched the playoffs by the end of August. Lots of time.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from gbman87603. Show gbman87603's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now:
    SP should be fine, most teams would be thrilled to have Lester, Beckett, Buchholz as their top 3.  Bard and Doubs look ok so far, Dice back soon. Scutaro was a utility infielder!  Are you saying Aviles hasn't been as good so far....for half the money?! Youk is an issue, but it's a tiny sample survey and he was signed and untradeable anyway. Ellsbury got hurt, why is that in the list? Calm down, we had a far worse start last year and seemed to have clinched the playoffs by the end of August. Lots of time.
    Posted by Chilliwings


    SP should be fine? Oh man.....Lester, I agree is a good SP, of course. Beckett, is too inconsistent...and Bucholtz had a nice year 2 years ago but needs to prove he can do it again, which he is off to a bad start with that. Doubront has look ok, Bard as looked shaky at best and is in a transition....and you are waiting for Dice-K to come back and do what exactly?

    WHO CARE ABOUT MONEY?!?!?! Why should the Red Sox trade a player to save 5 million? And AVILES is a UTL player, Scutaro is a proven starter. Look at his numbers over the last couple years with the sox, he performed very well.

    And its not about how you start, its how you finish....they dont have the horses to finish.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    "And its not about how you start, its how you finish....they dont have the horses to finish."
     
    The games we lose in April mean just as much as they do in Sept.  Only once you get the play offs does how you start not matter.  Had we won just one more game last April for what it would have been worth, we would have at least gotten to the play offs for 3 games anyway last year.

     I agree our starting pitching is way too inconsistent. It's probably just not as noticable to as many as it should be, simply because every other aspect of this team is just as inconsistent.   If today it's the pitching is the problem, tomorrow it's the hitting.   One day we win 13-5 the next day lose 1-0.  One team scores 13 runs over 2 games, the other only 6, and they split.
     
    This has been a pattern not just limited to this year and has been going on now for way too long. Obviously the problems with this team go far deeper than just Francona, and a hole or two. 

    For me personally I have no intention of panicing. Just accepting what I see as how it is. If the players we have collectively are simply not good enough OK. All I ask of them is their best effort, and as a long time Sox fan I'll be more than satisfied. Hey it's just baseball anyway, just make it fun if that's the best you can do.

    The owners of this team however need to sit themselves down and take a good hard look at reality.  Frankly I don't care if they conclude we need to remake this team from top to bottom and it takes 3 years to do it.  Just give me any indication you guys even understand there is some serious work that you guys need to do. Give me some indication you guys even care.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    In response to "Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now":
    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now : SP should be fine? Oh man.....Lester, I agree is a good SP, of course. Beckett, is too inconsistent...and Bucholtz had a nice year 2 years ago but needs to prove he can do it again, which he is off to a bad start with that. Doubront has look ok, Bard as looked shaky at best and is in a transition....and you are waiting for Dice-K to come back and do what exactly? WHO CARE ABOUT MONEY?!?!?! Why should the Red Sox trade a player to save 5 million? And AVILES is a UTL player, Scutaro is a proven starter. Look at his numbers over the last couple years with the sox, he performed very well. And its not about how you start, its how you finish....they dont have the horses to finish. Posted by gbman87603
    Marco Scutaro is a 37 year old with a bad shoulder currently playing 2nd base in Colorado, batting .222, with 1 RBI & 2 errors. He was a nice little player for a while, but at this point, most would agree that the much younger Aviles is the better player. Scutaro even lost his job to Jed Lowrie at one point last year. Throw in the money saved by trading him and it's tough to argue they made a mistake...you can do the "glass is half empty" thing with the rotation, but trading Scutaro was a good move.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSNS14. Show RSNS14's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now:
    SP should be fine, most teams would be thrilled to have Lester, Beckett, Buchholz as their top 3.  Bard and Doubs look ok so far, Dice back soon. Scutaro was a utility infielder!  Are you saying Aviles hasn't been as good so far....for half the money?! Youk is an issue, but it's a tiny sample survey and he was signed and untradeable anyway. Ellsbury got hurt, why is that in the list? Calm down, we had a far worse start last year and seemed to have clinched the playoffs by the end of August. Lots of time.
    Posted by Chilliwings


    Most teams? What does that mean? NL West teams? Cause that rotation is good enough for 3rd or 4th place in our division this year. We were 1-10 to start the season last year and now we're 4-7. Wouldnt say thats a far worse start. Add the clubhouse drama and I think we're in for a wild ride. At least it will be entertaining.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    In response to "Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now":
    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now : Most teams? What does that mean? NL West teams? Cause that rotation is good enough for 3rd or 4th place in our division this year. We were 1-10 to start the season last year and now we're 3-11. Wouldnt say thats a far worse start. Add the clubhouse drama and I think we're in for a wild ride. At least it will be entertaining. Posted by RSNS14
    Considering they are 4 and 7 not 3 and 11 (im assuming you don't watch the sox from this point on) yes that is a Much better start then last year. And yes our starting pitching could be good if healthy. Lester looked off lastnight for some reason. In a course of a season it happens to everyone even holladay and verlander.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now:
    gbman87603 I think you were a little hard on lester there are aces and there are aces I don't think CC is on the same level ace as doc or Lee either regardless they all have bad and some terrible days not sure what to say about youk other than to remind you A) it's april B) what they said about jeter last april & may I agree that the scuturo move just doesn't pass the smell test ….but now it looks like the Yankees are the model money spending franchise… that's not really fair they have been big spenders 4 much longer ;-) and the Rays are the model low budget franchise…and that leaves the sox in their dust.     injuries can change everything but FWIW I'm still  picking the sox ahead of TB heck the only team they can beat is the yanks
    Posted by pinstripezac
    GM Zac, The only point you made that I differ slighty with is Scuturo. Yes they moved him because of salary as you suggest but I don't see much of a drop off w/o him. IMO the most important thing a SS brings is defense. Sox will have to wait a little longer for the glove to come up.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    We'll see what Beckett has this year, but it's worth nothing that Beckett, in addition to having the lowest ERA last year, also averaged more innings per start than any other starter for Boston last year, including Lester. And that includes the 3.2 IP game in September when he injuried his ankle.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now:
    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now : Most teams? What does that mean? NL West teams? Cause that rotation is good enough for 3rd or 4th place in our division this year. We were 1-10 to start the season last year and now we're 4-7. Wouldnt say thats a far worse start. Add the clubhouse drama and I think we're in for a wild ride. At least it will be entertaining.
    Posted by RSNS14


    You don't think 1 win out of 11 is far worse than 4 out of 11?  Not to mention a tough schedule this year.

    Re SP, Detroit's nbr one is better than ours, then all the rest are in our favour....as one example.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now:
    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now : SP should be fine? Oh man.....Lester, I agree is a good SP, of course. Beckett, is too inconsistent...and Bucholtz had a nice year 2 years ago but needs to prove he can do it again, which he is off to a bad start with that. Doubront has look ok, Bard as looked shaky at best and is in a transition....and you are waiting for Dice-K to come back and do what exactly? WHO CARE ABOUT MONEY?!?!?! Why should the Red Sox trade a player to save 5 million? And AVILES is a UTL player, Scutaro is a proven starter. Look at his numbers over the last couple years with the sox, he performed very well. And its not about how you start, its how you finish....they dont have the horses to finish.
    Posted by gbman87603


    Beckett was great last year until his last two starts.  Buch was injured last year, hopefully - and it's crucial - he will revert to form. 

    Scutaro was a career backup that had a couple of decent seasons at SS.  He is not, and never was, a "proven starter".  He never played more than 81 games at SS until 2009 at age 33....and probably had the worst range in MLB other than Jeter.  Scutaro was a good guy, decent stopgap SS....but hardly worth worrying about. 

    How is Aviles doing so far in your opinion?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    In Response to Showed it last year - Confirmed now:
    Sorry in advance for the length... The amount of holes on this 180 million dollar team is mind boggling. They DON’T have an ace, that’s right, Lester is not an Ace. Is he their best starter? Obviously. He has never been a late inning pitcher, and has the ability to blow up on occasion like he did last night. How often do you see CC, Doc, Cliff Lee, Kershaw, go 2 innings? Never. Their bad starts are 6+ innings of grinding through a day where they don’t have their best stuff….When the sox pitchers don’t have their best, they get rocked.    Not one change was made from last year…..guess what? Youk is still on the decline. No one on this board is an expert, but his amount of swings and misses are telling. They gave up one of their only players who produced for 162 games last year (Scutaro), and the other (Ellsbury) is now hurt. 18 million a year for an above average speed player (Crawford) who hasn’t yet hit the field as the player he was in 2010…and may never. 16 million sitting on a recliner resting his surgically repaired elbow (Lackey). 15 Million in a starter who has flashed Ace stuff throughout his career (Beckett), but has only had one start to finish year of that high quality stuff (2007).    The reality is, no matter what anyone says; this team is not good enough. Their pitching is well below the status of New York and Tampa ….and as we saw last year and so far this year, their offense crushes mediocre pitching while routinely getting shut out by high quality pitching. Remember the days when the sox offense used to shine against the best in the league (2002-2004)?   Maybe this was their plan. Don’t work hard to make the necessary changes in the off-season and MAYBE they will either put it together and win, or be so bad people cant turn away from it. 5 years ago I could have sworn this would have been the Yankees. Older, less talented, and over paid….but now it looks like the Yankees are the model money spending franchise…and the Rays are the model low budget franchise…and that leaves the sox in their dust.   
    Posted by gbman87603


    Length is fine, but you can apologize for your content.

    The hitting is a whole lot better than the pitching and ranks 5th in the AL.  When the Tampa Bay Rays showed up at Fenway a few days ago, we were all worried that possibly the best pitching staff in the AL would shut down our presumed weak bats.  But in fact the Sox beat them up bad enough that the Rays now have the second worst ERA in the AL.  

    The pitching currently has the worst ERA in the AL and in all of MLB.  Of the five starters, Bard, amazingly enough, has pitched the third most innings (two starts, the other 4 starters have 2 or 3 starts) and has the lowest ERA.  The big three have each stunk it up at least once. 

    That said, I think nothing is "confirmed" after 11 games.  Before yesterday's debacle, Lester had thrown two pretty good games and had an ERA of around 2.40 against decent hitting teams. Remember, the Sox have so far played nothing but good teams, two of which, Detroit and Texas, are leading their divisions. 

    I think we all believe Bard is the weak link among the starters, but 6.2 innings and 1 run against the Rays wasn't too shabby for his second MLB start ever.  the biggest problem with Bard may be he can only reasonably pitch 150 innings this year.   The big three should come around.  My big concern is Buchholz, but I love how he bounced back after that horrendous first inning against the Rays. 

    Even the bullpen has potential as we have seen.  Not Bailey or Melancon, both disasters.  But Aceves can close, Morales has pitched well, and so have Padilla, Albers and Atchison. Taking 3 or 4 from the Rays, who came in with a winning record, was indeed a ray of hope for the season.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    In response to "Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now":
    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now : You don't think 1 win out of 11 is far worse than 4 out of 11?  Not to mention a tough schedule this year. Re SP, Detroit's nbr one is better than ours, then all the rest are in our favour....as one example. Posted by Chilliwings
    I see that he went back and edited post but I don't think he gonna reply. This years start is a lot better then last years, I don't know why some refuse to see that.
     
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    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    Clearly this season is over, luckily the Dexter DVD is coming out soon.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    Red Sox starters currently have an ERA of 6.21 while the bullpen has an ERA of 6.23.

    Small-sample caveats apply.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

    In Response to Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now:
    SP should be fine, most teams would be thrilled to have Lester, Beckett, Buchholz as their top 3.  Bard and Doubs look ok so far, Dice back soon. Scutaro was a utility infielder!  Are you saying Aviles hasn't been as good so far....for half the money?! Youk is an issue, but it's a tiny sample survey and he was signed and untradeable anyway. Ellsbury got hurt, why is that in the list? Calm down, we had a far worse start last year and seemed to have clinched the playoffs by the end of August. Lots of time.
    Posted by Chilliwings


    Detroit: Verlander, Scherzer, Fister
    Philly: Hamels, Halladay, Lee
    TB: Moore, Price, Shields
    Angels: J. Weaver, CJ Wilson, Ervin Santana
    Giants: Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner

    I agree that most teams would be happy with the top of the red sox rotation.  However, among playoff teams, we are in the middle of the pack.  It's about expectations.  If you are expecting a good season, then yes, we have good top of the rotation starters.  If you are looking for a world series victory, the top of our rotation is good enough to win a world series, but not good enough to carry a mediocre offense and a terrible bullpen to the world series.

    The top of our rotation is very good, but it is not elite.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Showed it last year - Confirmed now

     It seems to me that the entire pitching staff stunk last fall and I don't see any noticeable improvement. Certainly it's too early to cast a definitive judgment but spinning it any other way makes no sense to me. 
     
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