Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    So you want to go out and do what we just got through doing that didnt work? no way...That was the exact kind of thinking that got this team in trouble

    Id rather have Lee for less years and doesnt have social anxiety issues and is also someone these young pitchers can look up to. We could offer Doubront and maybe another prospect for him if Phil. eats some cash. Id also rather sign Torii Hunter for 2 yrs to play LF than Upton. Upton will cost too many prospects. Hes an inconsistent career .270 hitter who K's 130 times a year and has less than stellar defense. Salty has some of the top offensive number out of all MLB catcher and has improved greatly on defense since the end of April and should play here at least through his last arb year...Lavarnway has 6 years of control and still needs a bit of defensive work. Joe mauer has knee and back issues. He out of the Twins lineup now for the 3rd straight game because of his back and is not worth 23mm per through 2018 to play 1b. The guys had 1 year he hit over 20 HR...The rest are like an average of 9 per year. Not exactly a slugger. Great average and OBP who is not a longball guy, but gets paid like one.

    Dont expect the Sox to get Appel. He will probably go within the top 3. Its a longshot.

    Lester should stay here. He has one bad year and all of a sudden hes no good? Hes a LH power pitcher whos been a 17-19 game winner throughout his career giving you 200+ IP every year, never injured, has a team friendly contract and usually has a ton of K's. And now because of one bad year you want him out of here...Amazing...

     

    I dont understand why some people get so caught up in big names and hefty contracts that dont fit. If we dont learn from the past.......

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    As bad as things look right now in the standings I'm quite pleased with the season. All the injuries meant the team was going no place. 

    The fact they were able to dump Crawford is huge and something I would not have thought possible.

    I always liked Beckett and thought many of his issues were a result of the media beating up on him. That said I thought resigning him long term was a mistake because he has to many physical issues, can't stay healthy, wears down, and almost never seems right. 

    It was worth giving up Gonzalez to dump those two bad contracts, and the Gonzalez contract is looking more dubious by the day. He hitting worse for the Dodgers than he did in Boston. Of course he probably will hit for average again, he's almost have to based on the past, but his power numbers may well have peaked. 

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    Can't edit these things? 

    "He's hitting worse for the Dodgers than he did in Boston. Of course he probably will hit for average again, he'd almost have to based on the past, but his power numbers may well have peaked. "

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    So you want to go out and do what we just got through doing that didnt work? no way...That was the exact kind of thinking that got this team in trouble

    Id rather have Lee for less years and doesnt have social anxiety issues and is also someone these young pitchers can look up to. We could offer Doubront and maybe another prospect for him if Phil. eats some cash. Id also rather sign Torii Hunter for 2 yrs to play LF than Upton. Upton will cost too many prospects. Hes an inconsistent career .270 hitter who K's 130 times a year and has less than stellar defense. Salty has some of the top offensive number out of all MLB catcher and has improved greatly on defense since the end of April and should play here at least through his last arb year...Lavarnway has 6 years of control and still needs a bit of defensive work. Joe mauer has knee and back issues. He out of the Twins lineup now for the 3rd straight game because of his back and is not worth 23mm per through 2018 to play 1b. The guys had 1 year he hit over 20 HR...The rest are like an average of 9 per year. Not exactly a slugger. Great average and OBP who is not a longball guy, but gets paid like one.

    Dont expect the Sox to get Appel. He will probably go within the top 3. Its a longshot.

    Lester should stay here. He has one bad year and all of a sudden hes no good? Hes a LH power pitcher whos been a 17-19 game winner throughout his career giving you 200+ IP every year, never injured, has a team friendly contract and usually has a ton of K's. And now because of one bad year you want him out of here...Amazing...

     

    I dont understand why some people get so caught up in big names and hefty contracts that dont fit. If we dont learn from the past.......

     



    Agree.

    I don't get the OP. He doesn't want the Sox to give up on Doubrant, a guy with an ERA over 5.00 who really hasn't done anything, yet he wants the Sox to give up on Lester, a guy who has been good to great the past four years and whose season this year won't look good basically because of five starts.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ernstbln. Show ernstbln's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    In response to royf19's comment:it's not about power arms ! it's about control, changing speed and location. 

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    So you want to go out and do what we just got through doing that didnt work? no way...That was the exact kind of thinking that got this team in trouble

    Id rather have Lee for less years and doesnt have social anxiety issues and is also someone these young pitchers can look up to. We could offer Doubront and maybe another prospect for him if Phil. eats some cash. Id also rather sign Torii Hunter for 2 yrs to play LF than Upton. Upton will cost too many prospects. Hes an inconsistent career .270 hitter who K's 130 times a year and has less than stellar defense. Salty has some of the top offensive number out of all MLB catcher and has improved greatly on defense since the end of April and should play here at least through his last arb year...Lavarnway has 6 years of control and still needs a bit of defensive work. Joe mauer has knee and back issues. He out of the Twins lineup now for the 3rd straight game because of his back and is not worth 23mm per through 2018 to play 1b. The guys had 1 year he hit over 20 HR...The rest are like an average of 9 per year. Not exactly a slugger. Great average and OBP who is not a longball guy, but gets paid like one.

    Dont expect the Sox to get Appel. He will probably go within the top 3. Its a longshot.

    Lester should stay here. He has one bad year and all of a sudden hes no good? Hes a LH power pitcher whos been a 17-19 game winner throughout his career giving you 200+ IP every year, never injured, has a team friendly contract and usually has a ton of K's. And now because of one bad year you want him out of here...Amazing...

     

    I dont understand why some people get so caught up in big names and hefty contracts that dont fit. If we dont learn from the past.......

     



    Agree.

    I don't get the OP. He doesn't want the Sox to give up on Doubrant, a guy with an ERA over 5.00 who really hasn't done anything, yet he wants the Sox to give up on Lester, a guy who has been good to great the past four years and whose season this year won't look good basically because of five starts.

     




     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    Unless the Phillies take on about 3/4ths of Lee's contract until it expires I would not give up even a couple of decent prospects for him.  He is going to hit the old pitcher wall, and I do not want it to happen in a Red Sox uniform.


    Mauer is an interesting case, but his contract makes him just too expensive when considering his last few years of injuries.  He projects to be a first baseman soon rather than a first string catcher, and at first base his numbers are not going to better than Gonzalez.  Also, Mauer is not yet proven to be an elite defensive player at first base and he is not likely to hit even as many home runs playing half of his games in Fenway.


    He is also going to be very expensive as far as giving up top quality young players for him if the Twins do decide to trade him as he is the local hero out there in Minnesota.  The Minnesota fans would go crazy on their ownership if they gave up Mauer in any kind of a salary dump trade.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    So you want to go out and do what we just got through doing that didnt work? no way...That was the exact kind of thinking that got this team in trouble

    Id rather have Lee for less years and doesnt have social anxiety issues and is also someone these young pitchers can look up to. We could offer Doubront and maybe another prospect for him if Phil. eats some cash. Id also rather sign Torii Hunter for 2 yrs to play LF than Upton. Upton will cost too many prospects. Hes an inconsistent career .270 hitter who K's 130 times a year and has less than stellar defense. Salty has some of the top offensive number out of all MLB catcher and has improved greatly on defense since the end of April and should play here at least through his last arb year...Lavarnway has 6 years of control and still needs a bit of defensive work. Joe mauer has knee and back issues. He out of the Twins lineup now for the 3rd straight game because of his back and is not worth 23mm per through 2018 to play 1b. The guys had 1 year he hit over 20 HR...The rest are like an average of 9 per year. Not exactly a slugger. Great average and OBP who is not a longball guy, but gets paid like one.

    Dont expect the Sox to get Appel. He will probably go within the top 3. Its a longshot.

    Lester should stay here. He has one bad year and all of a sudden hes no good? Hes a LH power pitcher whos been a 17-19 game winner throughout his career giving you 200+ IP every year, never injured, has a team friendly contract and usually has a ton of K's. And now because of one bad year you want him out of here...Amazing...

     

    I dont understand why some people get so caught up in big names and hefty contracts that dont fit. If we dont learn from the past.......

     



    So you,d rather give up a 23 yr old, potential top end starter for a guy in his mid thirties making 25 mil. Hmmmmm...ok. Won,t happen. Mid to upper 90's young lefties do not grow on trees my friend...and, you DO NOT...give up on them. Period. By 2014 he can be what Lester used to be...

    Dont put words in my mouth. I never said I was "giving up" on Doubie. Rather using what I think is a solid pitching prospect to obtain a much needed leader for this staff. Its kind of funny you say that about me, but its YOU that are giving up on Lester after only ONE bad year. He was in Cy Young talks since he came up and now after one bad year, your ready to let him walk. Lester is here for at least 2 more years and possibly more if the sox resign him. He will be only 30 after the 2014 season and if he comes back to form, he SHOULD be resigned.

    Also...the top 4 coll pitchers projected in 13 are Sean MAnaea, Ryan Stanek, Appel, and Jonathon Crawford...we,ll get one of them. It,s a bumper crop for college pitching next yr? Let's say we get Crawford ( from u.fl. A96/98 mph stud starter) by 2014 we will have an unprecedented ( in my 45 yrs of following the rs) crop of power pitchers knocking at the door. Doubrount, Barnes, Crawford, Webster, De La Rosa, Henry Owens....and others. My guess is also, that you can still get a really nice pitching prospect for Lester in the off season. The buying team hoping he reverts back to prior form...but, what if again next yr he,s a 500 pitcher again with a 5 era? Do you pick up his 14 option for 14 mil? No...of course not. HeSS gone, and  you got zilch. 

    First of all, to think that ALL our pitching prospects are going to shine or even make it is unrealistic. Sure they have every chance to, but to count on them def making it and succeeding is not realistic enough to guarentee. Lester already has a great track record, but had a bad year. It happens. If things are the same in 2013, of course id rethink my position. But Ill wait to see if that even happens. Im not giving up on him. His history would say not to.

    When we drafted Bard as a starter everyone was in awe that we got a solid starter who threw 100mph. He couldnt cut it as a starter, was a solid reliever, Now look at him. Craig hanson was a sure thing too. wheres he? Andrew Miller was the #6 pick in the draft as a starter. All were 1st round picks. I could go on and on but I wont, Im sure you get my point. You just dont know how they are going to translate to MLB is all Im saying.

      Salty is an absolute butcher behind the plate. Lava was just named best defensive catcher in IL. Salty NEVER....in his life, ever been mentioned for his defense, and never will. He,s horrible. Period. He,s a free agent in 14...get what you can for him right now. Mauer can still catch 80 games a yr and IS one of, if not the best defensive catchers in the game. He would be a Hugh asset to developing Lava. Then move to first full time.....and why is 23 mil too much for a career 323 hitter, 405 obp. Isn't,t that what A Gon making and was giving us...

    I love when fans say hes a butcher. I laugh. You should join in on the salty needs to be benched thread. A few of us will show you numbers that prove different. Saltys defensive numbers have improved greatly. especially after April of this year. His pb/wp has been cut in half. Hes handling the staff much better and they are a lot more comfortable throwing to him. His offensive numbers rank well against other MLB catchers. He needs to work on raising his OBP,   but to say hes a butcher is NOT looking at the numbers and the variables that numbers cant rate.

      Forget Tory Hunter....that,s a joke. Bogarts will be the starting lf on opening day 2014.

    Torii Hunter on a 1 year deal with a 2nd year option is NOT a joke. Far from it actually. Hes a leader that this clubhouse could use whos still batting .309 with an .813 OPS and someone who can still produce. He's a place holder until one of our own is ready. Im looking at maybe 8mm or so. You want to go get a guy whos not doing well in Anehiem, overpay him around 20mm per to come to Boston. Oh yeah, and hes suffered from social anxiety. Now THATS a joke. Or you want tp pay Joe Mauer, whos got back and knee issues, 23mm til 2018 to play 1b? Mauer hits for average and has a high OBP but little power as far as HR's go. If your going to pay someone 23mm for the next 6 years I would expect  30-40 HR a year, not 10 like mauer will give you...And you call Hunter a joke...Ok...




     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    Mauer hits for average and has a high OBP but little power as far as HR's go. If your going to pay someone 23mm for the next 6 years I would expect  30-40 HR a year, not 10 like mauer will give you..


    Thank you, Southpaw. I don't know why Mauer's contract doesn't give more fans pause (in addition to what it would take to acquire him)...not that he isn't a sick hitter in his own right, but he's getting paid like an elite slugger.

    I agree with your other points as well. Greinke worries me and will cost too much, and giving up on Lester after one down year would be very foolish. 

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    It's Doubront not Doubrant. He's 6'2" not 6'6" and he's never thrown in the high 90's. No to Zack, the Boston media would eat that mental midget alive. I think Mauer is a fantastic player but I want to part of that contract. Lester is a proven pitcher and your ready to ditch him after one bad season. Before this season his record was 76-34, that's pretty impressive. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    All i can do is imagine what Grienke would do if he got in some trouble here and the media and fans mentally mug this guy, which they most certainly will. Hes better in Anehiem or for a team like the Brew Crew, not Boston or NY and not for 20+mm over 6-8 yrs.

    Hes a great pitcher in the right situation and team, thats true. But Im sorry, but that is just NOT a chance I would be willing to take for BIG $$ and BIG years...

    Lester still hits 94-96 on the gun like he was doing yesterday. He also worked at a great pace and looked like the old JL. Hes only 28 with 2 years left. like i said, for the next year or possibly two, I keep him. But I will re-examine the situation over that time.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    Mauer = terrible injury history

    Greinke = fragile psyche would get eaten alive in Boston

    Are you insane?

    Trade: Els definitely, Lester, no.

     

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    No Greinke, Mauer is fine as long as we don't give up our B trio and Mauer has to play 1B and DH to stay away from injuries.  I'm ok with Ben going after Hamilton agreesively  if we could get solid SP in return for Ells.  Lester is staying. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    All i can do is imagine what Grienke would do if he got in some trouble here and the media and fans mentally mug this guy, which they most certainly will. Hes better in Anehiem or for a team like the Brew Crew, not Boston or NY and not for 20+mm over 6-8 yrs.

    Hes a great pitcher in the right situation and team, thats true. But Im sorry, but that is just NOT a chance I would be willing to take for BIG $$ and BIG years...

    Lester still hits 94-96 on the gun like he was doing yesterday. He also worked at a great pace and looked like the old JL. Hes only 28 with 2 years left. like i said, for the next year or possibly two, I keep him. But I will re-examine the situation over that time.

     



    I guess where we differ is whether or not we can really compete in 2013 . I just don,t see it. If we were close, I would certainly keep Lester. If you keep him, you gotta keep Ells (to compete in 2013)  we,d have to re sign Papi for 2 yrs 22 mil. Hunter would cost ya 18 mil for 2 yrs. Then you would still have to go get a Greinke or Lee. So, let's say they get Lee and Philly eats a little salary. Still going to need a decent first baseman, and you ll have to resign ross for at least 2, or 3 yrs. Add in Salty,s arb and you re commiting around 8o mil for next yr to a group that is really questionable. Prob an 85 to 88 team at best IMHO. Now.....2014 rolls around. Ells is gone, and we got nothing for him. Salty is gone, and we got nothing for him too. Lester went 14-12 with a 4.26 era and we picked up his option. Papi and hunter are 40 and in decline costing us 20 mil to be leaders ( all very realistic and you know it)  I just think that if you did that you would push the re build out to 2015 or beyond. No matter which way we go, it,s going to cost us money at some point and risks. Pedro was a Hugh risk at the time. Everybody said he was small, would never hold up. Was pitching in obscurity etc...If you trade Lester, Ells, and salty now for 3 or 4 pretty good prospects you will be adding them to what I believe right now is a top 5 farm system.As well as adding one of the top college pitchers in this June's draft. When was the last time the Red Sox had a top 3 farm system? I ll answer that for you....NEVER....lol. Add to that we ll have incredible payroll flexibility, and plenty of chips to trade. Listen...I really like Greinke. And I hope the Red Sox do too. What happ to him ( being rushed and hung out to dry by KC and going 5- 17 as a 20 yr old) would of happ to most pitchers, which is why teams protect them and don,t rush them.I am more concerned about what he,s done since then. Like I said, he is BY FAR the best pitcher on the market over the next 2 yrs. He ll cost us no draft picks, or top prospects. ONLY money. 

     




    I understand all your points and they are valid ones. My Hunter Signing was for 1yr with a 2nd option year at 8mm each. If he declines then no biggie. Hes just my low cost, low years with high upside deal until the "kids" are ready. Hes good friends with Papi and  I think this team could use a guy like him to follow.

    Papi proved he could still hit this year, which makes me believe that he can for another year or two. Im kinda old school where I'd give a guy like Papi that extra year at this point in his career, if nothing else but a thank you. With that said, I DO believe he can produce and be worth the $$ spent on him.

    Ellsbury we agree on. IF we can get a top prospect for him in a trade somehow, Im certainly not opposed to that. I just dont want to give him away. We differ on Lester. I dont think this year is who he is. Could I be wrong? sure, but Im willing to take a chance on him being the guy everyone once considered "Ace" material and was in Cy Young talks when he was winning 18 games. Hes only 28 and if nothing else, we could get 2 more good years out of him before some of our "kids" are ready. Now, if there was a deal involving him that blew me away Id listen.

    Greinke? You'd be taking a big chance on him, but you are right, the reward would be tremendous. On the other side of it, it could cost a ton of $$ and years if he cant handle Boston. personally, if it were me Id be a little resistant to pull the trigger on that deal. I like the Lee deal at around the same $$, but less years. Both have their risks, that much is true.

    Salty will not cost much and has been improving a lot this year. Ive been one of his supporter on this forum. Lav doesnt look ready yet and needs another year IMO. Good catchers are so hard to find. Right now Salty is hardly a liability and shouldnt cost more than 4-5mm next year. By the end of 2013 we should know what we have. Theres always that possibility of a deadline trade as well with him. If the Sox could replace salty with someone better, then Id listen to that too. Lavarnway is NOT that guy though.

    One way or the other I believe this front office will try and put together a team that WILL compete next year and for future years to come. What ever happens, one thing is for sure. This winter should be a very active one with a few surprises for all of us.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason

     

    Mauer is injury prone and carrying a big contract.  Hamilton is injury prone and will be carrying a bigger contract, Papi is clogging up the the DH spot...so none of the above is a good match for the Sox going forward. 

     

    In response to seannybboi's comment:

    No Greinke, Mauer is fine as long as we don't give up our B trio and Mauer has to play 1B and DH to stay away from injuries.  I'm ok with Ben going after Hamilton agreesively  if we could get solid SP in return for Ells.  Lester is staying. 

     




     
Sections
Shortcuts