Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    to the OP...the other countries show more passion because...well....they have more passion.

    we have been Americans for 10 generations at the most.  the rest of the world has been whatever they are for quite a bit longer.  and a brazilian is a brazilian.  not a brazilian-american or italian-brazilian.  you may consider yourself an "American" but in reality your ancestory was from a different continent (native americans notwithstanding - but i doubt ANY native american would stand and sing the national anthem).

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    to the OP...the other countries show more passion because...well....they have more passion.

    we have been Americans for 10 generations at the most.  the rest of the world has been whatever they are for quite a bit longer.  and a brazilian is a brazilian.  not a brazilian-american or italian-brazilian.  you may consider yourself an "American" but in reality your ancestory was from a different continent (native americans notwithstanding - but i doubt ANY native american would stand and sing the national anthem).

    [/QUOTE]


    another great point.  Do you think any Native American at a game would stand up and sing "God Bless America" when they were kicked off their land at gun point and driven into tiny "reservations" ?  But it's OK because we are Americans, we are great, we only attack people who deserve it, "rights" are only for those who agree with us.......and our government loves us.......

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to miscricket's comment:


    I know this is slightly off topic but I figured I'd toss this question out to the forum. I enjoy watching soccer and often try to catch some of the Premier League games. I've been watching a little more here and there with the start of the World Cup ( hopefully my enjoyment of Soccer does not get my BDC Sox forum card revoked!).


     


    One cannot help but notice that many other countries sing along with their National Anthems..loudly, proudly, and passionately. In fact in Brazil's opening match, the team continued on with a second verse even after the music stopped.


     


    So..my question is this. Why, in America, do we sit back so passively when our Anthem is being sung. It is only on the rarest of occasions ( games after a tragedy such as 911 or the Boston Bombings). I remember the Bruins game shortly after the Marathon Bombings where everyone in the Garden sang out loudly. We don't do that as a rule though..and I guess I am just wondering why?


     


    "It is not down in any map...trueplaces never are...." ( Melville)




    Every ballgame I attend I sing along and loud.


    The song never fails to give me goosebumps.


    Thinking of Francis Scott Key looking out over the Atlantic to Fort McHenry at sunrise and seeing the tattered beautiful stars and stripes still flapping in the wind over the fort after a night of heavy bombardment.


    Putting his thoughts to song. Great song but I like it a lot better when whoever sings it hits every note and leaves their personalities at the door.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The fact is, few want to leave and many want to come here. Not true of many other places on this earth. Why not be thankful for being here, of all places you might be. Like I said, you seem to revel in discontent. Be it your country or your baseball team. Life is good Andrew. And it is short. Have fun. Enjoy it.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent reply -- just excellent.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]   Thank you.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you really want to start a political discussion?

    OK........

    Americans are hypocrites. They are fine with singing a song that talks about war, death and destruction......they honor the veterans (for invading nations and killing innocent people - keeping in mind that they were not drafted but VOLUNTEERED and that they GET PAID for doing it) but God forbid anyone exercise their right of personal defense merely by carrying a concealed handgun they want to string them up. Or what about when I refuse to stand up - people want to kill me.  Don't I have a right to NOT participate in something I don't believe in?  "Follow us OR risk personal injury!"

    It's also not OK to speak up against the government even though the nation was founded on pointing weapons directly at the heads of the government.  Why would anyone honor a nation?  Do you think they really care about you?  Shut up and pay your taxes and they will leave you alone.  Disobey in any way shape or form and they take away all of your assets and throw you in jail - or worse.  Why would anyone worship a political entity?  It's more acceptable to worship a political entity today than to worship God.  This definitely has many fascist themes.  Makes me sick.

    [/QUOTE]

    I was drafted... Seen death .Feel bad now maybe this all happened to me to make sure this country makes you sick? Sorry ! I served my country and gave you the right to express yourself. Question ? Why not move to another country and live the life that makes you happy? If your just here to flap your lips and hate hate hate. I think your just a fake who needs attention. Just from your comments ,who would trust you with a gun? Glad you weren't  covering my back in Nam.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you really want to start a political discussion?

    OK........

    Americans are hypocrites. They are fine with singing a song that talks about war, death and destruction......they honor the veterans (for invading nations and killing innocent people - keeping in mind that they were not drafted but VOLUNTEERED and that they GET PAID for doing it) but God forbid anyone exercise their right of personal defense merely by carrying a concealed handgun they want to string them up. Or what about when I refuse to stand up - people want to kill me.  Don't I have a right to NOT participate in something I don't believe in?  "Follow us OR risk personal injury!"

    It's also not OK to speak up against the government even though the nation was founded on pointing weapons directly at the heads of the government.  Why would anyone honor a nation?  Do you think they really care about you?  Shut up and pay your taxes and they will leave you alone.  Disobey in any way shape or form and they take away all of your assets and throw you in jail - or worse.  Why would anyone worship a political entity?  It's more acceptable to worship a political entity today than to worship God.  This definitely has many fascist themes.  Makes me sick.

    [/QUOTE]

    I was drafted... Seen death .Feel bad now maybe this all happened to me to make sure this country makes you sick? Sorry ! I served my country and gave you the right to express yourself. Question ? Why not move to another country and live the life that makes you happy? If your just here to flap your lips and hate hate hate. I think your just a fake who needs attention. Just from your comments ,who would trust you with a gun? Glad you weren't  covering my back in Nam.

    [/QUOTE]


    If you were DRAFTED then you had no choice.  I believe I was referring to those who enlisted. 

    I am happy to address your other comments but I wanted to be sure this was understood first.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:


    I love the flag.... I don't like our President, nor did I like the previous President.... I like the anthem....  I am not going to sing it though, I don't like to sing much mainly because I do not have the voice.....  I stand for the anthem, we all should...  I appreciate our troops drafted or volunteered.... burn the flag and I will punch you out.... paint a funny mustache on a picture of Obama or Bush and I will laugh....  If I need an ID to buy a beer at Fenway you damn well better have an ID to vote.





    So do you believe in freedom of expression as long as you agree with it and if you don't you will resort to violence? 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The flag represents your right to speak your mind. You want to burn the one symbol that represents all Americans? Is the flag right or left? 

    Your mom gave you the right to live, would you burn her? No you would not.

    Smug punk.

    [/QUOTE]


    so the answer is then "YES" - you support freedom of expression as long as you agree to it and if you don't you will PUNCH THE OTHER PERSON OUT.

    You realize that if you support freedom of expression you need to allow others to express it too.  that's what the flag represents. if you don't agree with the other people then you have the right IGNORE THEM.  You do not have the right to punch them out.

    I even support your right to call me names on this board - as big of a cowardly act as that is.........

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I love the flag.... I don't like our President, nor did I like the previous President.... I like the anthem....  I am not going to sing it though, I don't like to sing much mainly because I do not have the voice.....  I stand for the anthem, we all should...  I appreciate our troops drafted or volunteered.... burn the flag and I will punch you out.... paint a funny mustache on a picture of Obama or Bush and I will laugh....  If I need an ID to buy a beer at Fenway you damn well better have an ID to vote.

    [/QUOTE]
    Agree. I do like Bush better -- in large part because I have a lot of respect for Laura Bush -- but in the end, he did too many things I did not agree with. I was disappointed in Bush because I expected better. In that case, in some regard, I might dislike Bush more because of that.

    I didn't expect better from Obama, so in that regard, he didn't disappoint me. He exactly who I thought he was -- unfortunately

    And I don't know why you waste your time with andrew. He's not worth the effort I'm spending typing these sentences. But I'm behind you all the way.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I love the flag.... I don't like our President, nor did I like the previous President.... I like the anthem....  I am not going to sing it though, I don't like to sing much mainly because I do not have the voice.....  I stand for the anthem, we all should...  I appreciate our troops drafted or volunteered.... burn the flag and I will punch you out.... paint a funny mustache on a picture of Obama or Bush and I will laugh....  If I need an ID to buy a beer at Fenway you damn well better have an ID to vote.

    [/QUOTE]
    Agree. I do like Bush better -- in large part because I have a lot of respect for Laura Bush -- but in the end, he did too many things I did not agree with. I was disappointed in Bush because I expected better. In that case, in some regard, I might dislike Bush more because of that.

    I didn't expect better from Obama, so in that regard, he didn't disappoint me. He exactly who I thought he was -- unfortunately

    And I don't know why you waste your time with andrew. He's not worth the effort I'm spending typing these sentences. But I'm behind you all the way.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I like "W" because he was never the president.  I think W was exactly what he seems to be, a good human being who somehow got manipulated into the presidency.  He served under Karl Rove and Dick Cheney and carried out their bidding.  They're the ones I don't like.  

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I know this is slightly off topic but I figured I'd toss this question out to the forum. I enjoy watching soccer and often try to catch some of the Premier League games. I've been watching a little more here and there with the start of the World Cup ( hopefully my enjoyment of Soccer does not get my BDC Sox forum card revoked!).

     

    One cannot help but notice that many other countries sing along with their National Anthems..loudly, proudly, and passionately. In fact in Brazil's opening match, the team continued on with a second verse even after the music stopped.

     

    So..my question is this. Why, in America, do we sit back so passively when our Anthem is being sung. It is only on the rarest of occasions ( games after a tragedy such as 911 or the Boston Bombings). I remember the Bruins game shortly after the Marathon Bombings where everyone in the Garden sang out loudly. We don't do that as a rule though..and I guess I am just wondering why?

     

    "It is not down in any map...trueplaces never are...." ( Melville)

    [/QUOTE]


    Do they sing it every game like we do?  The Europeans are nuts about their game.  There are Boston pubs who make a nice living catering to Brits and other Europeans with their soccer addiction.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    thanks roy ... I won't engage with it any more.... 

    [/QUOTE]


    when all else fails, demean

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:


    In response to dannycater's comment:


    [QUOTE]


     


     


    The National Anthem is a tradition at pretty much all sporting events with a PA system. When I'm at a HS/College sporting event that doesn't honor America (which is the point), it feels wrong. If it's because you don't have a proper sound or electricity at the fields, then I can understand and then it's assumed no anthem. But you got the PA, you do it. It's an American tradition and it keeps things in perspective. Hate your opponent, hate your life, hate your dog, wife, the government, whatever....respect the Flag, respect that our Forefathers and our Military going back to Valley Forge put their lives on the line for our Nation. You don't like living here, leave. There seems to be hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens who can't wait to enter the USA, and for good reason. As for bitter Americans who hate the "system," form a militia or go to KFC with an AK 47. If you don't want to stand up and remove your hat during the Anthem, then don't...be disrespectful if you like, that is your choice. I will give you a dirty look, however, and I'll think you are a jerk. 


     


     





    was it disrespectful when Thomas Jefferson signed the Declaration of Independence and when George Washington formed a MILITIA and took up arms against his own government?  Or would you just had given him a "dirty look" and thought he was a "jerk" or just "bitter" and "hated the system"?


     


     


    And so much for freedom of expression.  All I do is sit down and be quiet.  And people want to kill me?  I am not burning the flag.  I am not shouting over the song.  I am not doing ANYTHING.  So you guys talk about freedom but really what you all mean is YOUR definition of freedom and what feels right to you. 


     


    So I go back to my original post and refer to the word I used "Hypocrites".......THIS NATION WAS FOUNDED ON DISSENT AND NOW YOU'ALL SEEM TO LOVE GOOSE STEPPING IN LINE and NOT BOTHERING TO LEARN HOW THE SYSTEM REALLY WORKS.  The best way to enslave a people:  LET THEM BELIEVE THEY ARE FREE......It's working......


    [/QUOTE]

    drew, I'm sorry if you have had tough lot in life, you mentioned being drafted. I agree with you about the idea of dissent, but I don't agree with being disrespectful to traditions if the idea behind them is to promote good will among men/women/Americans. I think the Anthem is a reminder of the trials and tribulations of some of the Forefathers you mentioned. Washington formed his militia WITH DIRECTION FROM THE REVOLUTIONARY LEADERS...It was done with an objective in mind, not because Washington was a rogue guy dissenting. When you feel you want to rise up and take arms against the U.S. Government, feel free. When Rick Monday picked up the burning flag one day at Dodger Stadium, do you think he was in the wrong for doing so? Sounds like it. I do think it's disrespectful to not stand up and take off your hat---it's good manners for one thing. Or should we all eat with no spoons and forks and simply behave like wild animals? I don't see you not standing as "dissent." I see you not standing as disrespectful. Two different things in my opinion.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The flag represents your right to speak your mind, it represents freedom. You want to burn the one symbol that represents all Americans? Is the flag right or left? No. 

     

    Your mom gave you the right to live, would you burn her? No you would not.

     

    Smug punk.

    [/QUOTE]

    not trying to be a jerk but you should ask a native to this land what they think about this.  you may be surprised.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

     

    [QUOTE]

    In response to dannycater's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

    The National Anthem is a tradition at pretty much all sporting events with a PA system. When I'm at a HS/College sporting event that doesn't honor America (which is the point), it feels wrong. If it's because you don't have a proper sound or electricity at the fields, then I can understand and then it's assumed no anthem. But you got the PA, you do it. It's an American tradition and it keeps things in perspective. Hate your opponent, hate your life, hate your dog, wife, the government, whatever....respect the Flag, respect that our Forefathers and our Military going back to Valley Forge put their lives on the line for our Nation. You don't like living here, leave. There seems to be hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens who can't wait to enter the USA, and for good reason. As for bitter Americans who hate the "system," form a militia or go to KFC with an AK 47. If you don't want to stand up and remove your hat during the Anthem, then don't...be disrespectful if you like, that is your choice. I will give you a dirty look, however, and I'll think you are a jerk. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    was it disrespectful when Thomas Jefferson signed the Declaration of Independence and when George Washington formed a MILITIA and took up arms against his own government?  Or would you just had given him a "dirty look" and thought he was a "jerk" or just "bitter" and "hated the system"?

     

     

     

     

     

     

    And so much for freedom of expression.  All I do is sit down and be quiet.  And people want to kill me?  I am not burning the flag.  I am not shouting over the song.  I am not doing ANYTHING.  So you guys talk about freedom but really what you all mean is YOUR definition of freedom and what feels right to you. 

     

     

     

    So I go back to my original post and refer to the word I used "Hypocrites".......THIS NATION WAS FOUNDED ON DISSENT AND NOW YOU'ALL SEEM TO LOVE GOOSE STEPPING IN LINE and NOT BOTHERING TO LEARN HOW THE SYSTEM REALLY WORKS.  The best way to enslave a people:  LET THEM BELIEVE THEY ARE FREE......It's working......

     

    [/QUOTE]

    drew, I'm sorry if you have had tough lot in life, you mentioned being drafted. I agree with you about the idea of dissent (CLEARLY YOU DO NOT SUPPORT DISSENT), but I don't agree with being disrespectful to traditions if the idea behind them is to promote good will among men/women/Americans (JUST BECAUSE I WON'T DO SOMETHING I DON'T BELIEVE IN MAKES ME DISRESPECTFUL?). I think the Anthem is a reminder of the trials and tribulations of some of the Forefathers you mentioned . Washington formed his militia WITH DIRECTION FROM THE REVOLUTIONARY LEADERS...It was done with an objective in mind, not because Washington was a rogue guy dissenting (WASHINGTON WOULD BE CONSIDERED A TERRORIST AND IF CAUGHT SENT TO GUATINAMO BAY). When you feel you want to rise up and take arms against the U.S. Government, feel free (YOU MEAN LIKE WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS DID??). When Rick Monday picked up the burning flag one day at Dodger Stadium, do you think he was in the wrong for doing so? Sounds like it. (NOW YOU ARE REALLY MISSING THE POINT.  I WOULD SUPPORT RICK MONDAY FOR DOING WHAT HE DID.  IT IS HIS FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.  WHAT HE DID NOT DO ANYONE PHYSICAL OR FINANCIAL HARM.  SO YOU ARE WRONG, I SUPPORT MONDAY 100%).  I do think it's disrespectful to not stand up and take off your hat---it's good manners for one thing (THAT'S YOUR OPINION WHICH IS FINE BUT THERE'S A THUG HERE WHO WOULD RATHER PUNCH ME OUT COLD BECAUSE I DON'T DO SOMETHING THAT I DON'T BELIEVE IN). Or should we all eat with no spoons and forks and simply behave like wild animals? (YOU COULD DO WHATEVER YOU WANT AS LONG AS YOU ARE EITHER A - ON YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY OR B - HAVE THE PERMISSION OF THE OWNER OF THE PRIVATE PROPERTY).  I don't see you not standing as "dissent." (AGAIN, YOUR OPINION.  BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN IT.  SO ARE YOU GOING TO FORCE ME TO DO SOMETHING THAT I DON'T BELIEVE IN?  AND IF SO, HOW?)  I see you not standing as disrespectful. Two different things in my opinion.  (IT'S ALL PERSPECTIVE BUT AGAIN, I DEFAULT BACK TO MY INITIAL POINT.  PEOPLE TODAY BELIEVE IN FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AS LONG AS THEY AGREE WITH THE EXPRESSION.  IF NOT, IT'S DISRESPECTUL AND YOU MAY GET A PUNCH IN THE MOUTH)

    [/QUOTE]


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    I never said you would be "punched in the mouth." I simply said that you are being disrespectful to the National Anthem and what it stands for...yes.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    I can have me opinion, no, only you?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    As for Washington being labeled a Terrorist. That's a good question. You may be right that it is nearly impossible to do what the 1770s Revolutionists did. What does the Flag mean? What does being a citizen of your country mean? All good questions. You choose to sit during the National Anthem. I'm sure the guy who feels it's necessary to go topless on a subway train has that option too. I also don't like it when someone doesn't wear underarm deodorant. . I don't like it when non-police individuals brings rifles into restaurants. I don't know, call me stodgy or old but I want to be able to show respect toward people. Which is why when the Canadien National Anthem is played, I stand and take off my cap. I don't have to, I'm not a citiizen of that country---I guess I want to show respect for people. You don't have to respect people, that's your choice. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The flag represents your right to speak your mind, it represents freedom. You want to burn the one symbol that represents all Americans? Is the flag right or left? No. 

     

    Your mom gave you the right to live, would you burn her? No you would not.

     

    Smug punk.

    [/QUOTE]

    not trying to be a jerk but you should ask a native to this land what they think about this.  you may be surprised.

    [/QUOTE]

    If I could wave a wand and turn back the clock to 1491 I would... sincerely. The flag still represents all people, doesn't mean we all have the same deal... but that is not the flags fault..... it is the government, the government that is voted in and out of office by the people.... the people.

    [/QUOTE]


    understood.  it's not my personal belief as i stand, take my hat off, and sing at the top of my lungs everytime it is played.  but i can understand why some wont or dont without having to feel like i need to punch them.

    As for you last sentence...i think al gore would have a good chuckle at that one.....

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I never said you would be "punched in the mouth." I simply said that you are being disrespectful to the National Anthem and what it stands for...yes.

    [/QUOTE]


    i didn't say you said that...someone else here did

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I can have me opinion, no, only you?

    [/QUOTE]


    i didn't say that

    i said that you think it's fine for you to express your thought by signing but it's disrespectful for me to express my thought by NOT singning.....you're entitled to your opinion but that doesn't make you any less of a hypocrite as per the definition of the word

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    signing?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    Explain to me why I'm a hypocrite?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    As for Washington being labeled a Terrorist. That's a good question. You may be right that it is nearly impossible to do what the 1770s Revolutionists did. What does the Flag mean? What does being a citizen of your country mean? All good questions. You choose to sit during the National Anthem. I'm sure the guy who feels it's necessary to go topless on a subway train has that option too. I also don't like it when someone doesn't wear underarm deodorant. . I don't like it when non-police individuals brings rifles into restaurants. I don't know, call me stodgy or old but I want to be able to show respect toward people. Which is why when the Canadien National Anthem is played, I stand and take off my cap. I don't have to, I'm not a citiizen of that country---I guess I want to show respect for people. You don't have to respect people, that's your choice. 

    [/QUOTE]

    +1000. 

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Slightly off topic...but The National Anthem

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

         Bottom line: People change , disrupt and often risk their lives to come here , legally or illegally. Anyone who does not like it here is free to leave, with no restrictions. All politics aside, that should tell you all you need to know.  

     

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    actually, you aren't COMPLETELY free just to leave.  you still have to certain conveyance taxes when leaving plus the IRS will continue to collect income taxes from you for 5 years after you leave.  if you were really free to leave there would not be any strings attached.  strings = a reduction in freedom.  there is no such thing as partial freedom.  therefore, you not free to leave at all.  but they LOVE you and only want what's best you........

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]. If you love being a contrarian, you are free to be that. If you want to leave, you are free to do that. If you love to complain, you are free to do that. Whatever you want. However, that is not the case in every other country on this planet. There is no system that is ever going to be utopia. There is never going to be a system that pleases everyone. There are few , if any,  better than ours.  I'm guessing that you are going to never be satisfied , but also never , ever leave. That includes being an American citizen and even being a Red Sox fan. I think that your enjoyment comes from never being happy. Nothing wrong with that. Good luck. 

    [/QUOTE]


    dude it's a fact.  you can not leave this country scott-free.  you made the claim that one is free to leave.  i told you that you are wrong.  and then you go off on some "love it or leave it" speech and passing judgement? 

    if you want to keep believing the government loves you then i will advise to you close your eyes and to keep the dream alive.......

    [/QUOTE]

    You ARE free to leave....but you aren't doing it, are you. You are, in essence, voting with your feet that this is the best place to be. The rest is just tongue wagging. If you want to complain, which you do, or if you don't want to stand during the National Anthem, more power to you. But in the end, you ARE voting with your feet. Its not perfect here, but there is no place better on earth for you or for me....or we would be there.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     

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