Re: So Long for now, IGGY......
posted at 4/9/2013 10:25 PM EDT
In response to jasko2248's comment:
In response to moonslav59's comment:
Waaaayyyy over Georom's head, Mef...Don't bother...You could tell him that the Sox desperately need another left-handed bat in the line-up right now, but that won't register either... You could tell him that Drew is a plus defender, but that won't matter either. I'm not saying this is an easy decision by any stretch, but too many people on here don't realize how good a player Drew is when healthy...and right now, he's fully healthy.
What are people basing this "Drew is a plus fielder" opinion on? Has anyone here watched him play hundreds of games?
Is having a pin in your ankle being fully healthy? Does anyone know if it will further restrict an already very limited range at the position where range matters most of all? I'll admit I am not sure. I have been wrong before. I was wrong about Aviles being a below average ranged SS, based on data and minimal observation. Maybe I'm wrong about Iggy probably making 60-100+ more plays than Drew at SS over 150+ games, but I see no reason to assume Drew is a plus defender. I hope I am wrong as H3ll, since SS defense is crucial to our shaky staff staying confident and pitching later into the games.
Moon, Maybe you're an orthopedic specialist and I'm unaware of it, because you keep mentioning this ankle pin like it's some kind of major hinderance. He's said he feels that the ankle is 100% healed and he's been cleared by multiple Doctors.
Show me a doctor that said he is 100% and his range has not been diminished by the pin. I'm not saying it can't be so, but I seriouslyu doubt his range is improving (at age 30) over an already pretty poor starting point.
Why are you so concerned about this pin if noone else is? I had two screws placed in my knee at 18 and I was faster and more agile at 21 than I was at 18. Medical science has come along way since then, so I'm not sure what your issue is here.
Why do you think he is going to get better at his age with or without a pin?
As far as my "opinion" goes, I'm basing part of it on an interview I listened to with someone who covered Drew's ENTIRE career in Arizona, someone who has probably seen 99% of his career games. He couldn't stop raving about his defense. He said his instincts were like his brother's, and there are plenty of people around the game who will tell you that J.D. Drew had the best instincts of any outfielder they've ever seen. This guy said Stephen was exceptional at robbing those shallow bloop hits in the outfield, he said he has an uncanny knack to always position himself in the right place based on the hitter's tendencies, the expected pitch, etc...This guy said pitchers love him because he never butchers a play in a big spot and like his brother, makes a lot of difficult plays look easy. He did mention that he's the type of player "who drives the sabermetric geeks" crazy.
Great positioning and robbing hits would show up in UZR/150. Not buthering plays would show up in UZR/150. Great instincts would show up in UZR/150. It's based on balls hit in his zone. If he is positioned where they are hit more than most other SSs, it would be reflected in his UZR/150.
I have said I may be wrong about Drew as I was about Aviles, and my comment about being "right" was part tongue-and-cheek, but also partly based on the crux of my position: If a SS does make 60-100 more plays than the other, he should start, even if he gets 30-40 less hits over a season. I'm OK with people not accepting that Iggy is that much better than Drew, and recognize that you "may be right", but I do think my argument, if correct (60-100 plays vs 30-40 less hits) is refutable. That's really what I meant by "right".
I also asked some people in the game about him and they all said he is an all-star caliber player when healthy. The guy averaged 65 extra base hits a year before the injury and he's still in his prime.
Peers also voted Jeter a GG a short while ago. Peers usually only see a player on another team 3 to 6 or 18 games a year at most.
To me, it makes more sense to rely on the opinion of his peers and someone who has covered his entire career than basing my entire opinion on a "statistical "measure" that is proven to be flawed. By the way, saying it's the "truth" that Iglesias is "10 times" the better defender than Drew is a heck of a lot more ridiculous than saying Drew is a "plus defender." We shall see soon enough. By the way, do you still think clubhouse culture doesn't matter?
Never said it didn't matter. I said it was "over-rated". I still believe that.
A 7 game sample size is small, but I feel we are not 5-2 because of kumbaya. When we go 2-5 in some stretch, will you blame the "culture"?
We have played great defense, had great manger decisions, and 2 of our pitchers pitching like aces in 4 of the 7 games.
Now, we are likely to change our defense, change the "chemistry", see our 3-5 (6 if we replace Lackey's start with Aceves) starters next.
I like what I have seen so far, but am not happy about the changes. I do expect Drew to hit better than the last 2-3 years combined, if healthy. I just don't see it as being enough to overshadow Iggys phenomenal defense. It's not that I dislike Drew, it's about really liking Iggy's D.
The Fielding Bible is a good non sabermetric judge od fielders skill sets as compared to their peers:
2012: Drew got no top 10 votes (16 SSs did)
2011: Drew got no top 10 votes (18 did)
2010: Drew got no top 10 votes (20 did, including Scutaro)
2009: Drew did get 13 (10 for 1st, 9 for 2nd...) points to place him 13th with 19 getting a vote)
2008: Drew did get 4 points to place him 18th (behind Aviles & M Young).
2007: Drew got no top 10 votes.
At his very best, this panel placed him 13th. That is abover the mid point, but hardly a ringing endorsement. I also don't see why we should believe he will field like 2009 and not the other 6 years.