Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    Texas is hesitant to give Napoli even a 4 yr / 48 million dollar extension.  That being the case, they clearly undervalue him.  I would trade Middlebrooks, Lavarnaway and Renaudo TODAY.  We need a #4 hitter and imagine having one that can CATCH!  

    I've broken down the stats in other threads.  The difference between a below average defensive catcher and an elite one is about 8-10 runs / year (4-5 for extra passed balls, 4-5 for extra stolen bases allowed).  That's 3-4 homeruns.  Will Napoli hit 3-4 more runs than the average catcher?  ABSOLUTELY.

    Either Bobby V or McLure is calling the pitches this year. So calling the game is irrelevant.  Napoli may be the best all-around catcher in the league.  We jump from team full of questionmarks to powerhouse if he acquire him!!


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    Texas is hesitant to give Napoli even a 4 yr / 48 million dollar extension.  That being the case, they clearly undervalue him.  I would trade Middlebrooks, Lavarnaway and Renaudo TODAY.  We need a #4 hitter and imagine having one that can CATCH!   I've broken down the stats in other threads.  The difference between a below average defensive catcher and an elite one is about 8-10 runs / year (4-5 for extra passed balls, 4-5 for extra stolen bases allowed).  That's 3-4 homeruns.  Will Napoli hit 3-4 more runs than the average catcher?  ABSOLUTELY. Either Bobby V or McLure is calling the pitches this year. So calling the game is irrelevant.  Napoli may be the best all-around catcher in the league.  We jump from team full of questionmarks to powerhouse if he acquire him!! http://www.bbtia.com/home/2012/3/12/mike-napoli-and-the-case-of-the-missing-long-term-contract.html
    Posted by Drewski5


    Did you check to see if Texas wants those guys?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    In Response to Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli! : Did you check to see if Texas wants those guys?
    Posted by nhsteven


    Those are solid prospects...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    And what if Napoli returns to being the .784 OPS hitter he was in 2010?

    The guy had a career year, way out of line with previous seasons.  There is proably a very good reason Texas is delaying giving him an extension that takes him through age 34.

    Not to mention, the bigger questions surrounding the Sox this year all relate to the starting pitching staff, and acquiring Napoli - who carries no guarantee of an extension anyway - does nothing to help that.

    (An Carlos Santana is a better all-around catcher...)
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    And what if Napoli returns to being the .784 OPS hitter he was in 2010? The guy had a career year, way out of line with previous seasons.  There is proably a very good reason Texas is delaying giving him an extension that takes him through age 34. Not to mention, the bigger questions surrounding the Sox this year all relate to the starting pitching staff, and acquiring Napoli - who carries no guarantee of an extension anyway - does nothing to help that. (An Carlos Santana is a better all-around catcher...)
    Posted by notin


    If you look at 2008 - 2011, and average the numbers, you should expect something like a .270 hitter, with 20-25 homeruns.  I think he'll outperform those numbers (the numbers are skewed downwards because they contain a lot of pinch hit at-bats).  Im expecting: .280, 27 homeruns.  Thats a top 5 catcher (even with below average defense).

    But I agree about Santana, good point there.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    Until last year, he really had a bad record getting the best from the pitchers when compared to the other catcher on his team(s). I see him more as a DH/back-up catcher type in the VMart mode.

    I'd like him on our team, but I'd rather have Gavin Floyd.

    As I have said before, I'd give Middlebrooks, Anderson, Exposito and Bowden for Floyd, but perhaps a larger deal could be put together:

    To CWS:
    Lackey: 12:$15.25M, 13:$15.25M, 14:$15.25M (plus 1 year at min wage)
    Salty: $2.5M (2012)
    Middlebrooks, Anderson, & Bowden


    To Red Sox:
    Peavy: 12:$17M, 13:$22M club option ($4M buyout) (Basically $21M/2012)
    Floyd: 12:$7M, 13:$9.5M club option (But, only $3.9M towards luxury tax in '12)
    Pierzynski: 12:$6M
    Ohman: 12:$2.5M

    The money:
    To CWS:
    2012: ~ $19M
    2013: ~ $20M+
    2014: ~$18M+ (No Salty)
    2015: Lackey at min wage
    To Boston:
    2012: $32M  ($27M on cap)
    2013: $13M (Floyd + Peavy buyout option)
    2014: $0

    (I'd like to get Crain instead of Ohman, but that would be pushing it.)




     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    Texas is hesitant to give Napoli even a 4 yr / 48 million dollar extension.  That being the case, they clearly undervalue him.  I would trade Middlebrooks, Lavarnaway and Renaudo TODAY.  We need a #4 hitter and imagine having one that can CATCH!   I've broken down the stats in other threads.  The difference between a below average defensive catcher and an elite one is about 8-10 runs / year (4-5 for extra passed balls, 4-5 for extra stolen bases allowed).  That's 3-4 homeruns.  Will Napoli hit 3-4 more runs than the average catcher?  ABSOLUTELY. Either Bobby V or McLure is calling the pitches this year. So calling the game is irrelevant.  Napoli may be the best all-around catcher in the league.  We jump from team full of questionmarks to powerhouse if he acquire him!! http://www.bbtia.com/home/2012/3/12/mike-napoli-and-the-case-of-the-missing-long-term-contract.html
    Posted by Drewski5

    Do you expect Texas to abandon its bid for a third straight American League pennant in exchange for the strikeout-prone ways of Will Middlebrooks (when the Rangers have an All Star, Gold Glove thirdbaseman under contract through 2015 or 2016), a hitting prospect without a position and an underperforming pitching prospect?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    Texas is hesitant to give Napoli even a 4 yr / 48 million dollar extension.  That being the case, they clearly undervalue him.  I would trade Middlebrooks, Lavarnaway and Renaudo TODAY.  We need a #4 hitter and imagine having one that can CATCH!   I've broken down the stats in other threads.  The difference between a below average defensive catcher and an elite one is about 8-10 runs / year (4-5 for extra passed balls, 4-5 for extra stolen bases allowed).  That's 3-4 homeruns.  Will Napoli hit 3-4 more runs than the average catcher?  ABSOLUTELY. Either Bobby V or McLure is calling the pitches this year. So calling the game is irrelevant.  Napoli may be the best all-around catcher in the league.  We jump from team full of questionmarks to powerhouse if he acquire him!! http://www.bbtia.com/home/2012/3/12/mike-napoli-and-the-case-of-the-missing-long-term-contract.html
    Posted by Drewski5



    Hard to believe it would happen with the professed love for Salty on this site.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    In Response to Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli! : SON, I know that you have a tie on & you must be a liberal/left/moonbat.....  However, you need to layoff the St. Patty's green sauce.......  We don't need Napolian when we have the next Carlton Fisk in Lavarnway !!!!
    Posted by Bill-806


    What does this make you, a conservative/name-caller?
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    Wow, unfreakiin believable.  3 of our best best prospects. for one year of a guy that is not even an All star?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!





    What does Aunty CERA have to say about Napoli?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    In Response to Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli! : "Let me be clear", Spare me/us of all your  P C  stuff....... This is baseball & the manager has to go with his feelings for the game in front of him !!!!!!!
    Posted by Bill-806


    That makes a bunch of sense. Perhaps you should stick to the name calling.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    What does Aunty CERA have to say about Napoli?
    Posted by BurritoT


    Auntie CERA was very upset with Napoli for years and years, but last year Mikey made Auntie proud.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    lol.... okay then!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    How does that solve our pitching problems?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    People still think our offense lost us 2011.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    Texas is hesitant to give Napoli even a 4 yr / 48 million dollar extension.  That being the case, they clearly undervalue him.  I would trade Middlebrooks, Lavarnaway and Renaudo TODAY.  We need a #4 hitter and imagine having one that can CATCH!   I've broken down the stats in other threads.  The difference between a below average defensive catcher and an elite one is about 8-10 runs / year (4-5 for extra passed balls, 4-5 for extra stolen bases allowed).  That's 3-4 homeruns.  Will Napoli hit 3-4 more runs than the average catcher?  ABSOLUTELY. Either Bobby V or McLure is calling the pitches this year. So calling the game is irrelevant.  Napoli may be the best all-around catcher in the league.  We jump from team full of questionmarks to powerhouse if he acquire him!! http://www.bbtia.com/home/2012/3/12/mike-napoli-and-the-case-of-the-missing-long-term-contract.html
    Posted by Drewski5


    Napoli would have been a great guy to have for the past four years while we were playing the "lets be loyal to Tek" card but to offer Renaudo, Middlebrooks and Lav for the guy is insane when we could just get him at some point to replace Papi. 

    Paying a portion of Davids salary, then trading him along with Salty for Nap might make more sense so Texas still has a catcher and better DH.  
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    Not happening why would Texas want to help us and the team has committed to Saltamachia.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    I never like trading our best prospects for one guy. So much can go wrong with that scenario. I think Napoli was injured running the bases during the playoffs. That could happen at any moment, and we will have lost our best guys.

    I'm sure it's done alot in baseball, but we just lost guys for AGon. Not that I would want them back, but I can't see doing it again unless it's an AGon, or (my dream) Verlander. However, I would take Lincecum. :)
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    Texas is hesitant to give Napoli even a 4 yr / 48 million dollar extension.  That being the case, they clearly undervalue him.  I would trade Middlebrooks, Lavarnaway and Renaudo TODAY.  We need a #4 hitter and imagine having one that can CATCH!   I've broken down the stats in other threads.  The difference between a below average defensive catcher and an elite one is about 8-10 runs / year (4-5 for extra passed balls, 4-5 for extra stolen bases allowed).  That's 3-4 homeruns.  Will Napoli hit 3-4 more runs than the average catcher?  ABSOLUTELY. Either Bobby V or McLure is calling the pitches this year. So calling the game is irrelevant.  Napoli may be the best all-around catcher in the league.  We jump from team full of questionmarks to powerhouse if he acquire him!! http://www.bbtia.com/home/2012/3/12/mike-napoli-and-the-case-of-the-missing-long-term-contract.html
    Posted by Drewski5


    Why not throw in Ells and Gonzo also????
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    Napoli is good , but not great. I think we need to get away from trading prospects for veteran players , unless there is a problem keeping them on the 40 man roster. Last year we sent three pretty good , mid-level prospects for Bedard , who was little or no help down the stretch , and now is gone.  The farm system can become depleted in a hurry.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    In Response to Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli! : SON, I know that you have a tie on & you must be a liberal/left/moonbat.....  However, you need to layoff the St. Patty's green sauce.......  We don't need Napolian when we have the next Carlton Fisk in Lavarnway !!!!
    Posted by Bill-806


    Bill- I agree.  I know I have been houndogging all your nonsense about "The Next Fisk".  However, in this instance, you are completely correct.  If the Sox needed a big-hitting catcher who is less of a catcher than a DH, why not stay homegrown and go with Lavarnway, get him experienced, and save all those precious farm boys?  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    A prospect does not equal a prospect.  They are all individuals, therefore blanket rules like: "dont trade your prospects" should be avoided.  I havent seen an untradable prospect on the sox in quite some time.  We just havent been nailing the drafts like we use to.

    I maintain that we should go to jail for trading Kelly+Rizzo for AGON.  While they were our top 2 prospects at the time, neither were that good.

    At this point, Im willing to give Lavarnaway a try.  I just think that Texaxs doesnt know what they have in Napoli.  Hill implies that the trade would be terrible for Texas.  Hill, I completely agree, I just wonder if Texas agrees because they wont up their offer to him.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!

    In Response to Re: Solution to 2012: Trade for Napoli!:
    A prospect does not equal a prospect.  They are all individuals, therefore blanket rules like: "dont trade your prospects" should be avoided.  I havent seen an untradable prospect on the sox in quite some time.  We just havent been nailing the drafts like we use to. I maintain that we should go to jail for trading Kelly+Rizzo for AGON.  While they were our top 2 prospects at the time, neither were that good. At this point, Im willing to give Lavarnaway a try.  I just think that Texaxs doesnt know what they have in Napoli.  Hill implies that the trade would be terrible for Texas.  Hill, I completely agree, I just wonder if Texas agrees because they wont up their offer to him.
    Posted by Drewski5


    I agree that there really aren't untouchables in the organization at the moment.  And, certainly there can be no blanket statement about not giving up prospects.  Also, agreed about the Gonzalez deal being grand theft.

    But, to me, the unknowns of Lavarnway and Napoli, when you throw in having to give up prospects to get Mike, even eachother out:  Unknown for Lav is that he has only had a cup o' coffee and no guarantees about his impending Fisk-dom.  Unknown for Napoli is whether his 2011 offensive production was an abberation or late-career maturation/growth.  For my money, I would rather roll the dice on youth in this case, since they both have very similar skill-sets at this point.  Lavarnway could potentially develop into a good catcher (maybe not), but we know for a fact that Nap is more of a DH type.  
     
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