1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    some perspective..

    posted at 7/23/2012 11:14 AM EDT

    beckett has had a handful of bad starts but other than that has pitched extremely well, deeper into games.. he just isn't getting the run support needed, which is not his fault. in fact beckett has a WHIP of 1.25 and opponents are hitting .258 off of him. lester has a WHIP of 1.46 and opponents are hitting .290 off of him
    to put that into perspective lackey had a whip of 1.62!!! and opponents were hitting .308 off of him in 2011.

    our best pitcher by far is doubront and he has a WHIP of 1.36 and opponents are hitting .255 off him and for S&Gs lets see how clays stats are 1.43 WHIP and .281 opp BA

    so lets put that together, our best pitcher doubront has a WHIP of 1.36 and a .255 opp BA. beckett has a WHIP of 1.25 and a .258 opp BA. one pitcher has 10 wins, one pitcher has 5. based on the stats you could easily have both pitcher at 10 wins easily. the only difference is run support.. doubront gets it, beckett does not.

    im sick of all these idiots who want to lump beckett together with lester as the problems.. beckett clearly isn't the problem with numbers like those. he is easily our second best pitcher and you could make the case that he is our best pitcher... his whip is .10 points lower and opponents are hitting .003 points higher than doubront..

    people blindly put faith into stats which don't fully measure how well a pitcher is doing... this isn't the 1920s anymore, the "wins" stat is completely meaningless for a pitcher as it is based on total run support you recieve and how well your BP does after you leave the game.. a pitcher can let up 15 runs and still get the win because his offense bailed him out. a pitcher can have 0 ER in a game and still get the loss..

    as for ERA, it is only a viable measurement over long periods of time. a full season at the least. not a couple months.

    WHIP, opp BA, HR/9, K/9 all should be looked at and used as a measurement before you use ERA or wins to form your opinion of a pitcher..

    stat responsibly guys.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: some perspective..

    posted at 7/24/2012 12:13 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: some perspective..:
    In Response to Re: some perspective.. : Hey mef, YOU ARE WRONG. Let me repeat, YOU ARE WRONG. Anibal Sanchez is making 8 million for one year and is 28 years old.  The Tigers owe a prorated amount (about 3 million) for the rest of the year - this is a good contract. Josh Beckett is making 15.75 million this year, 15.75 million next year AND 15.75 million in 2014 and is already an old 32 years old.  Any team that claims him via the waiver process would have to pick up OVER 42 million over the next 2 plus years - this is a bad contract. You know this, you know his contract details.  Why would you even pretend to think that someone would pick up this contract? END
    Posted by Bigpapa1977

    +1
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: some perspective..

    posted at 7/24/2012 12:26 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: some perspective..:
    When you constantly put your team in a whole right off the bat, WHIP doesn't mean squat, neither does K's/9. A 5 run defecit is difficult for any team to overcome, especially this one that is terrible at hitting w/RISP. It never fails that beckett seems to have one bad inning every outing, and then pitches well for the rest of the time he's in. Granted, he doesn't get the run support that Doubront or Buch have enjoyed, so the ERA is the most important stat in his case and in Lester's. Also remember that there is a pitcher on the opposing side who is trying to shut down our offense, and we have faced some good ones.
    Posted by harv53



    That is 100% correct.

    I started a thread last year in mid August aptly called "5's" and it referenced that we had 5 starters who constantly surrendered 5 runs a game and lasted about 5 innings a start. Nothing has changed!
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: some perspective..

    posted at 7/24/2012 2:16 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: some perspective..:
    In Response to Re: some perspective.. : That is 100% correct. I started a thread last year in mid August aptly called "5's" and it referenced that we had 5 starters who constantly surrendered 5 runs a game and lasted about 5 innings a start. Nothing has changed!
    Posted by EnchiladaT


    well then you'll be happy to hear beckett has gone less than 6 innings in only 3 starts this year.. he has pitched 7 or more innings in 8 starts. He has let up 5 or more runs in 3 starts (the same 3 he went less than 6 innings in). He has given up 3 runs or less in 10 starts..

    the good clearly outweighs the bad here..
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: some perspective..

    posted at 7/24/2012 2:42 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: some perspective..:
    In Response to Re: some perspective.. : well then you'll be happy to hear beckett has gone less than 6 innings in only 3 starts this year.. he has pitched 7 or more innings in 8 starts. He has let up 5 or more runs in 3 starts (the same 3 he went less than 6 innings in). He has given up 3 runs or less in 10 starts.. the good clearly outweighs the bad here..
    Posted by mef429


    He's still been mediocre at best this year. Used to be a time when he would be the stopper. The guy we could depend on to right the ship. Now when he pitches, we hope he makes it through the first 3 innings without giving up too many runs.
    When you are skeptical about the 1-2 starters pitching well, how much confidence can be left for 3-5?
    This is bad rotation, plain and simple.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: some perspective..

    posted at 7/24/2012 2:48 PM EDT

    Metallica did a nice version of Whiskey in the Jar...but how do you beat the double-electric of Thin Lizzy.
     

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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: some perspective..

    posted at 7/24/2012 3:05 PM EDT

    it's closer to 2 years, calzone.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: some perspective..

    posted at 7/24/2012 3:43 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: some perspective..:
    In Response to Re: some perspective.. : He's still been mediocre at best this year. Used to be a time when he would be the stopper. The guy we could depend on to right the ship. Now when he pitches, we hope he makes it through the first 3 innings without giving up too many runs. When you are skeptical about the 1-2 starters pitching well, how much confidence can be left for 3-5? This is bad rotation, plain and simple.
    Posted by harv53


    beckett isn't having a GREAT season like he did in 2011.. but he is FAR from the waste of space, BP server, horrendous pitcher some posters make him out to be. lester on the other hand, is that guy.. I've been saying since jump that the roto is the weakest link on this team. but its not becketts fault. he certainly has been doing his part, he just doesn't get run support. he could easily have 10 wins right now if he had the run support that clay and felix get..

    a rotation of beckett, clay, doubront, morales, cook isn't a bad one. and if lester can figure himself out and right his mechanics and pitches to his career norms then it will shape up to be a solid rotation.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: some perspective..

    posted at 7/24/2012 3:45 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: some perspective..:
    Metallica did a nice version of Whiskey in the Jar...but how do you beat the double-electric of Thin Lizzy.
    Posted by dannycater

    TBH i've never even heard the original version.. but all cover songs metallica does seem to be better than the original songs... IMO

     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: some perspective..

    posted at 7/24/2012 4:16 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: some perspective..:
    Beckett has some loyal supporters. I'll say that for him.  There is nothing he can do wrong that they will not just shrug off. That is all I can say.
    Posted by dgalehouse


    did he say that Beckett has only pitched 2 bad games?  It's been at least half a dozen and he's only had about 15 starts.  That's pretty bad......
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: some perspective..

    posted at 7/24/2012 4:20 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: some perspective..:
    In Response to Re: some perspective.. : did he say that Beckett has only pitched 2 bad games?  It's been at least half a dozen and he's only had about 15 starts.  That's pretty bad......
    Posted by andrewmitch



    3 bad starts, 2 mediocre starts, 7 good starts, 4 excellent starts