Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

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    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    SOUNDS LIKE GOOD NEWS TO ME!!!  ESPECIALLY CURT YOUNG!!!!

    I DON'T THINK YOU CAN HAVE THE ENTIRE PITCHING STAFF GO SOUTH, WHICH SEEMED ALMOST INTENTIONAL, & NOT CAN THE PITCHING COACH!

    ????????????    DID THE STARTING PITCHERS COLLECTIVELY TANK IN SOLIDARITY WITH JOHN LACKEY?????  DID THEY ADOPT THE NEGATIVE, 'SCREW THE FANS' ATTITUDE AFTER LACKEY CAME UNDER FIRE FOR HIS POOR PERFORMANCE???  DID THEY ALL DECIDE TO TEACH FANS A LESSON????  IF YOU TURN ON US WE WILL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU DESERVE????  OR WAS IT MORE SUBTLE THAN THAT????  DID THE BELEAGUERED LACKEY SIMPLY BRING THE ENTIRE PITCHING STAFF DOWN WITH HIS NEGATIVE ATTITUDE?????

    LACKEY IS THE BIG PROBLEM!

    BECKETT CAN BE BROUGHT BACK INTO THE FOLD!  ALONG WITH LESTER & BUCH!

    P.S.   MISERY LOVES COMPANY!!!

     
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    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

      Only makes sense new manager is going to want to bring in his own drinking buddies, I mean coaches.
     
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    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    Let me guess the list of guys the RS were pleased with. Magadan and Tuck.

    DeMarlo Hale is by all accounts a great baseball man and was the best 3B coach we had in a long time before he moved to bench coach. But no way does the bench coach, given his role on the staff escape some ownership for clubhouse issues. The role really is keeping a second eye on the clubhouse and chief counsel to the manager.

    Young may be a great pitching coach that guys did not listen to but when your pitching staff goes as far south as this one did in September there are no mulligans. Bogar is supposed to have lots of good things going on as a baseball man, directing traffic at 3rd isn't one of them. Of course 3B coaches get blasted because every gamble they take that fails is their stupidity and almost everyone that works goes unnoticed. But Bogar in the last two years has gotten blasted more than his fair share.


     
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    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    No surprise if Theo snags DeMarlo as the next manager of the Cubs.
     
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    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    In Response to Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs:
    [QUOTE]  THEY SHOULD BE......... HECK, NOT ONE OF THOSE COACHES COULD SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE CLUB HOUSE ???   PITCHING & HITTING COACH GOT D---  IN MY BOOK !!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]How many more runs should the RS have scored Bill?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    In Response to Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs:
    [QUOTE]WEEI According to multiple sources, some of the Red Sox coaches have been granted permission to explore other opportunities while awaiting their fate. The remaining Sox coaches -- bench coach DeMarlo Hale, hitting coach Dave Magadan, pitching coach Curt Young, third base coach Tim Bogar and bullpen coach Gary Tuck -- all have at least one year remaining on their current contracts. Some of the coaches have been told that while the organization was pleased with their performance, the decision to retain their services will be contingent on the approval of the Red Sox' new manager.
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    Hale is probably the best bet to ever manage.  Guys like Mags and Curt Young have done very little to help our ball club.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    In Response to Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs : Hale is probably the best bet to ever manage.  Guys like Mags and Curt Young have done very little to help our ball club.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]The best offense in baseball this year and one of the best every year since he has been here and Mags has done very little to help the club?

    I don't like kicking dirt on guys when they are down but if anybody after the players did not have Francona's back, it was DeMarlo Hale. While the field manager is the ultimate owner of things, much of what has been reported is just what a bench coach is supposed to be the guard rail against happening.
     
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    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    In Response to Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs : The best offense in baseball this year and one of the best every year since he has been here and Mags has done very little to help the club? I don't like kicking dirt on guys when they are down but if anybody after the players did not have Francona's back, it was DeMarlo Hale. While the field manager is the ultimate owner of things, much of what has been reported is just what a bench coach is supposed to be the guard rail against happening.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    katz, I don't think Mags gets credit for us having great offensive players who hit better than he ever did as a player.  Thats like saying Tampa Bays pitching coach gets credit for having years of top young draft picks/pitchers and mentors at the minor league level.

    It's guys like Crawford, Tek, Salty, Lowrie and others Mags should be having an impact on and obviously hasn't.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    In Response to Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs:
    [QUOTE]Let me guess the list of guys the RS were pleased with. Magadan and Tuck. DeMarlo Hale is by all accounts a great baseball man and was the best 3B coach we had in a long time before he moved to bench coach. But no way does the bench coach, given his role on the staff escape some ownership for clubhouse issues. The role really is keeping a second eye on the clubhouse and chief counsel to the manager. Young may be a great pitching coach that guys did not listento but when your pitching staff goes as far south as this one did in September there are no mulligans. Bogar is supposed to have lots of good things going on as a baseball man, directing traffic at 3rd isn't one of them. Of course 3B coaches get blasted because every gamble they take that fails is their stupidity and almost everyone that works goes unnoticed. But Bogar in the last two years has gotten blasted more than his fair share.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Or maybe the pitchers did listen to Young, which is why he'll be enjoying retirement sooner than later.

    Great pitching coaches are great communicators. If the staff didn't listen to him, then he wasn't a good communicator. Hence...
     
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    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    It's guys like Crawford, Tek, Salty, Lowrie and others Mags should be having an impact on and obviously hasn't.

    So, a good hitting coach must have a 100% success rate with every player?
     
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    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    Harness, Tito is a great communicator and he lost the room too. Be happy, the guy was a bad fit here whatever the reasons and even Varitek could not cover for him. Let's see if he gets another job and how he does.

    Bill, the 3 run games stuff is just silly. If the RS had any kind of pitching in September they were going to win 96 games. They won 90 going 7-20 in September. They go 13-14 they win 96. There pitching staff gave up over 7 eraned runs a game.

    Craze, I fear you nit pit pick a bit much, scraping the barrel by bringing the catchers who over the season exceeded expectations, Lowrie who fell victim yet again to an injury. And Crawford is a pretty complex mess. How about Ellsbury rise? The last time the RS let the hitting coach go for not "helping" a couple of guys even though the overall offense was rocking it was Pap Jack, they guy Mags replaced. The guys Pape Jack supposedly couldn't help. Trot Nixon and Jason Varitek. In both cases it wasn't the hitting coach it was father time.

    On the subject of Magadan I personally don't see any way in the world he does not return unless the new manager has a very strong preference. There isn't any reason the RS would not be happy with Magadan or a new manager unless he specific guy in mind that he would not want to retain the hitting coach of the best hitting team in MLB.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    In Response to Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs:
    [QUOTE]Harness, Tito is a great communicator and he lost the room too. Be happy, the guy was a bad fit here whatever the reasons and even Varitek could not cover for him. Let's see if he gets another job and how he does.

    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Comparing a pitching coach to a manager is a slippery slope.
    A pitching coach has limited duties to half the players.
    It's harder to sustain an approach over the years for a manager.
    That's why they are often out of jobs.
    Pitching coaches tenure is usually limited to managerial changes.

    If a pitching coach gets positive results with a few arms,
    then he wins the staff over. Young won nobody over from what I read...and didn't read. The lone exception might be Aceves.
    I'd say his hands-off approach worked with Aceves. And that's because he's a free spirit.

    Just too many indicators beyond the injuries that point Young's way.
    Erratic mechanics/form. Lost velocity with young arms. How many instances can you recall when his mound visits resulted in anything positive?

    He was brought up by the A's. When his playing career ended, he became a pitching coach for them. He never had any prior experience as a PC with anybody else.

    It's a whole different ball game coaching in an organization you know from top to bottom, in a stadium conducive to pitching.
    I say there's a damn good chance no M. L. club hires him at this point...for a job at the M.L. level.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    In Response to Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs : Comparing a pitching coach to a manager is a slippery slope. A pitching coach has limited duties to half the players. It's harder to sustain an approach over the years for a manager. That's why they are often out of jobs. Pitching coaches tenure is usually limited to managerial changes. If a pitching coach gets positive results with a few arms, then he wins the staff over. Young won nobody over from what I read...and didn't read. The lone exception might be Aceves. I'd say his hands-off approach worked with Aceves. And that's because he's a free spirit. Just too many indicators beyond the injuries that point Young's way. Erratic mechanics/form. Lost velocity with young arms. How many instances can you recall when his mound visits resulted in anything positive? He was brought up by the A's. When his playing career ended, he became a pitching coach for them. He never had any prior experience as a PC with anybody else. It's a whole different ball game coaching in an organization you know from top to bottom, in a stadium conducive to pitching. I say there's a damn good chance no M. L. club hires him at this point...for a job at the M.L. level.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]Actually he seemed to win over Papelbon, Albers had a great run and Beckett had one of the better years of his career.

    I'll probably never buy into the injuries being his fault Harness so we will tend disagree. And BTW it has become pretty clear over the last few weeks the the shoulder conditioning program is and was the responsibility of the RS trainers and not the unique intellectual property of the John Farrell that went to Toronto when John went there.

    But I will concede you this. I found it alarming how long it took to get small mechanical flaws corrected with Bard for one. I think in part you lost me when you started blaming elbows injures and a back stress fracture on Young.

    On balance 162 games later while Young may have actually had a positive impact for some pitchers, the result is the truth and a lot guys did not have great years and he certainly wasn't able to turn chicken s*it into chicken salad with the marginal guys. He certainly did not have a Dave Duncan year or even a Farrell year.  

    The end result is the result and with a new manager coming in I can't imagine Young being retained regardless. Time will tell if he gets another shot, certainly he may appeal to a team with a younger staff but who knows.
     
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    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    In Response to Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs : The best offense in baseball this year and one of the best every year since he has been here and Mags has done very little to help the club? I don't like kicking dirt on guys when they are down but if anybody after the players did not have Francona's back, it was DeMarlo Hale. While the field manager is the ultimate owner of things, much of what has been reported is just what a bench coach is supposed to be the guard rail against happening.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    He was a crappy 3B coach then promoted to Bench coach which is just a "team mom" position.
    I don't want another Francona managing this team.
     
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    Re: Some Sox coaches allowed to explore jobs

    To me this isn't really news. Any team installing a new GM and Manager at the same time will essentially clean out the coaching staff.

    Me? I can't wait to hear some of the players leaving e.g. Lackey first and foremost.
     
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