Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    Peavy had retired 8 of the previous 9 batters.  He struck out Overbay to end the 6th.  He's thrown around 115 pitches a number of time this year.  It wasn't a terrible bet that he could get one or two more outs in the 7th.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    Peavy shoulda been lifted after the lead-off walk. 


    The shift backfired, a shift should be used judiciously not obsessively.

     

    Thorton should be used in games already virtually decided.  He can be good, he just needs to get in some appearances to see if he can get himself in a groove or not; he's been in and out with injuries this season but is a proven good lefty reliever, lss.

     

    SP is mostly right about Farrell's pen moves.  That Villarael move in San Francisco has to go down as one of the all-time bonehead managerial decisions. 

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    Don't count the Rays out just yet.

     

     

     



    Of course we are not counting the Rays out yet just like the Yankees too.  But what I am saying, that Tampa losing to the Angels is huge.   Can we just get a little excited when everything is going toward to the Red Sox's ways??

     

     I'm super excited!  

    Just because I still think the Rays have another run in them, doesn't minimize my feelings towards the Sox catching fire.

    Sox4ever

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    One other thing to consider.  You've got Doubront tonight.  He could go 7 or he could go 3.  So Farrell has to factor in that as well when mapping out bullpen strategy.  Remember, the Sox are not in desperation mode.  They don't have to do whatever is necessary to win a game and then worry about the next game when it comes; they can follow some semblence of a plan.   

    Besides, while Thornton hasn't been overly impressive, he had been throwing pretty well since coming off the DL.  He didn't have it last night, but that happens.  If it happens 3-4 times in a row, then there's a real problem. 

    I'm more worried about Tazawa, who is regressing.  I hear Eckersley made a great point last night, Julian is throwing the spliiter too hard. Early in the year, it was at 89 tops.  Lately it's been around 92, which makes it stay up and become more hittable.  Doesn't bode well if he's amped up in a playoff game; he needs to calm down.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Peavy had retired 8 of the previous 9 batters.  He struck out Overbay to end the 6th.  He's thrown around 115 pitches a number of time this year.  It wasn't a terrible bet that he could get one or two more outs in the 7th.



    I just know that if they had yanked Peavy and the next guy imploded, the same guys would be complaining about pulling Peavy.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to illinoisredsox's comment:

    One other thing to consider.  You've got Doubront tonight.  He could go 7 or he could go 3.  So Farrell has to factor in that as well when mapping out bullpen strategy.  Remember, the Sox are not in desperation mode.  They don't have to do whatever is necessary to win a game and then worry about the next game when it comes; they can follow some semblence of a plan.   

    Besides, while Thornton hasn't been overly impressive, he had been throwing pretty well since coming off the DL.  He didn't have it last night, but that happens.  If it happens 3-4 times in a row, then there's a real problem. 

    I'm more worried about Tazawa, who is regressing.  I hear Eckersley made a great point last night, Julian is throwing the spliiter too hard. Early in the year, it was at 89 tops.  Lately it's been around 92, which makes it stay up and become more hittable.  Doesn't bode well if he's amped up in a playoff game; he needs to calm down.



    Tazawa and Uehara have been over-worked. I hope it doesn't come back to haunt us later, but saving our pen does have merit in and of itself.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Peavy had retired 8 of the previous 9 batters.  He struck out Overbay to end the 6th.  He's thrown around 115 pitches a number of time this year.  It wasn't a terrible bet that he could get one or two more outs in the 7th.

     



    I just know that if they had yanked Peavy and the next guy imploded, the same guys would be complaining about pulling Peavy.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    That's true.  I guess we all play manager and GM around here off and on.  No doubt, things are going well right now, and Farrell and Cherington and the players and everyone else involved deserve to get their share of the credit

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    Why is Thornton even on this team, we have about a zillion Lefty's.  Britton has looked good out of the pen, Breslow has been good, and Morales is back.  Seems a little redundant having 4 lefties in the pen.  Especially when you consider that if we go with 4 starter in the Playoffs you're likely adding another lefty.

    I think Thorntons days are numbered here. 

    CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!!!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    Overall, Farrell gets a very good grade with me. I have spoke up twice this year in a very emotional and "negative" way. It was last night and the dumb Villareal pitching move in SF.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Why is Thornton even on this team, we have about a zillion Lefty's.  Britton has looked good out of the pen, Breslow has been good, and Morales is back.  Seems a little redundant having 4 lefties in the pen.  Especially when you consider that if we go with 4 starter in the Playoffs you're likely adding another lefty.

    I think Thorntons days are numbered here. 

    CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!!!




    Thornton has been decent since he came back from the DL a week or 2 ago.  He's not a lights out guy, if he were, he'd be an 8th-9th inning guy, not a 6th-7th inning one. 

    Britton has not really been used in high stress situatoions (3 since the beginning of August, and he gave up the lead in 2 of those).   Breslow has become the 8th inning guy it seems like.  Morales hasn't been used much in stress situations either and pitched an inning Wednesday.  Ditto Workman. 

    Middle bullpen guys are what they are because they are inconsistent.  Plus, as I said above, you've got Doubront tonight.  He's been showing signs of wearing down, so do you need the pen for 3, 4, 5, 6 innings tonight (which is where Workman and Morales factor in).  The moves didn't work, sometimes that happens.  Plus, the whole inning may have changed had Wells been called out at 3rd.  

    It's teams like the Yankees who have to make desperation moves (think Mo pitches 3 straight days in June?).     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Why is Thornton even on this team, we have about a zillion Lefty's.  Britton has looked good out of the pen, Breslow has been good, and Morales is back.  Seems a little redundant having 4 lefties in the pen.  Especially when you consider that if we go with 4 starter in the Playoffs you're likely adding another lefty.

    I think Thorntons days are numbered here. 

    CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!!!




    With a 7-2 lead and two on, it was a good time to see what Thorton has

    Now that we know, I hope it's the last we see of him.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    Why is Thornton even on this team, we have about a zillion Lefty's.  Britton has looked good out of the pen, Breslow has been good, and Morales is back.  Seems a little redundant having 4 lefties in the pen.  Especially when you consider that if we go with 4 starter in the Playoffs you're likely adding another lefty.

    I think Thorntons days are numbered here. 

    CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!!!

     




    With a 7-2 lead and two on, it was a good time to see what Thorton has

    Now that we know, I hope it's the last we see of him.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with the first part. You use Thornton in a 7-2 game, not Breslow, who you want in a one-run game in the seventh or eighth. I disagree with this being a the last time to see him. He has pitched well since coming off the DL. If you stop using middle relief, low-leverage guys as soon as they struggle one game, you'll run out of relievers.

    To me, the problem wasn't Thornton. As I stated, that's when you use guys like him. The problem was Tazawa. He's not getting the job done. I was willing to ride out his struggles for awhile, but now, he needs to be put into low leverage situations to see if he can find his stuff again.

    I agree with moon. Had Peavy not been brought back out and the first reliever got lit up from the start, you'd have threads about Farrell babying his starters. For a guy like Peavy, you bring him back when he has 105 pitches unless the previous innings was a high-stress inning, which it wasn't.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    Guys I'm not debating in game decisions and creating a dozen posts like a certain someone in here.  I was merely purposely over reacting in light of how ridiculous this thread is.  But in reality if we are going to have this conversation.  I realize Britton has been a little shaky lately, but lets ask this: Who hasn't? Yes Thornton may be a decent 5th 6th inning guy but we have a gazillion of those guys.  When it comes down to it and roster spots need to be found for the Playoffs....I think he is left off.  Possibly if Britton really stumble further and Morales takes a step back then maybe.  But we still have Breslow and there is a possibility that Doubront comes out of the rotation for the playoffs.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    I was fine with leaving Peavy in for 2 more batters.  It was the bottom of the order.

    I agree that Breslow should have come in instead of Thornton.



    So if you use Breslow in the 7th, who do you use in the 8th? Sure you can use him for 2 innings but you can always burn him out as well. I was okay with Farrell trying to squeeze another inning out of Peavy, but it just didn't work. We wouldn't be having this conversation if Thorton had done his job. I had hopes for the Thornton pickup but at this point it just hasn't worked. I also don't think that Lavarnway is the guy you want behind the plate in a big game handling this bullpen.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    Man this is grasping at straws in the worst way damned if they do and damned if they don't.

    RS managers have always been second guessed but this thread takes it to a new level. In the recent past it was the same for Francona was raked for every decision that did not work but never got credit for what did work. When it worked it was to the players credit.

    Well this is dejavu all over again as Yogi says.

    LOVE my  Red Sox, Bs, Cs, Pats and enjoy the ride every year. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    This isn't MLB 2K13, and you can't manage every game like it's Game 7. The Sox are closing out a stretch of 13 games in 13 days. It's September, and guys are tired and/or hurting.

    All managerial decisions are defined by whether they work or not. Had Rivera gotten that last strike past Napoli, nobody would be questioning Girardi today about using him for a third straight day. Had Farrell pulled Peavy after six and the reliever imploded, Sox Nation would be ripping him for pulling the starter too early.

    Do I agree with all his moves? Of course not. But John Farrell is a former MLB pitcher and a pitching coach with a World Series ring. He's going to be Manager of the Year. Since February, he has been around the players 24/7. I'm not nearly arrogant enough to suggest that I know more about the game or the personnel than he does.

    (Prediction: When Uehara does finally blow a save -- which he will, because all evidence to the contrary he's not a machine --  Farrell will be blamed for using him too  much).

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    To me it's so simple.  Forget Peavy and focus on Thornton and Tazawa.  If Peavy stays in the dugout, those two go out there and still butcher the game.  Peavy was not an unreasonable choice.  Farrell cannot go with his best guys, Breslow and Uehara, in the 7th inning of a game in which the Sox have a five run lead.  At some point the rest of the bullpen has to do their collective job. 

    I griped about Peavy walking Jeter last night, but think he is still a gutsy pitcher and had no qualms about Farrell sending him out for the 7th, especially give the bullpen, which we all saw.

    Also interesting was sending out Ross to catch the 10th to preserve the save because the starting catcher, despite hitting well, has definitely got some defensive issues.  Fun job, managing that--and with Salty out with a bad back. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    We can't use Breslow every 7th inning, Tazawa every 8th inning and Uehara every 9th inning. You try to use them when it's a close game, but not brun them out. It's a fine line to walk, and being overly critical of Farrell on this once game is just plain short-sighted.

    I think he handled everything perfectly, but you know, soemtimes doing the right thing doesn't work the way you envisioned. Farrell has to look at each game and the next few games at the same time. If this was the 7th game of the WS, maybe he'd have done something a little differently, but the guy played the cards exactly the right way. Thornton had a rough game- so waht- on to the next game... and win.

    I get the feeling we bust out against the lefty tonight!

    Sox4ever

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Why is Thornton even on this team, we have about a zillion Lefty's.  Britton has looked good out of the pen, Breslow has been good, and Morales is back.  Seems a little redundant having 4 lefties in the pen.  Especially when you consider that if we go with 4 starter in the Playoffs you're likely adding another lefty.

    I think Thorntons days are numbered here. 

    CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!!!

     




    With a 7-2 lead and two on, it was a good time to see what Thorton has

     

    Now that we know, I hope it's the last we see of him.

    [/QUOTE]


    I would have rather it be him or tazawa in a clean inning, not try and put Peavy back out there. No need to with a 5 run lead. That way nobody has to deal with runners on base starting out. It was not a great move.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Why is Thornton even on this team, we have about a zillion Lefty's.  Britton has looked good out of the pen, Breslow has been good, and Morales is back.  Seems a little redundant having 4 lefties in the pen.  Especially when you consider that if we go with 4 starter in the Playoffs you're likely adding another lefty.

    I think Thorntons days are numbered here. 

    CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!!!

     

     




    With a 7-2 lead and two on, it was a good time to see what Thorton has

     

     

    Now that we know, I hope it's the last we see of him.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I would have rather it be him or tazawa in a clean inning, not try and put Peavy back out there. No need to with a 5 run lead. That way nobody has to deal with runners on base starting out. It was not a great move.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Our pen isn't as deep as many feel it is. To me, only Uehara, Tazawa, and Breslow are very trustworthy. These three can't pitch every game all year long.

    The Yankee game was a big game. 

    I rarely comment on one game/in game decisions, but this one is just too clear to ignore. Peavy starting the inning was the right thing to do. Only hindsight knows better.

    Had Peavy had a 1-2-3 inning, nobody here even thinks twice about the decision. If Thornton does his job- same thing. 

    Farrell has made a few mistakes this year, but this was not one of them- not even close. Judging him on this one call based on hindsight is just too easy for some posters here. Everytime a player does poorly, does not mean a manager should have seen it coming.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Any explanation? It was pure dumb.



    Because, put very simply, He's the manager and thankfully you're not. Now 29 games over .500, the best record by far in the AL and you continue to rag on a great manager !! Yikes. 

    Hetch 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    Perhaps develop a second late inning trio:

    Morales, Rubby and Britton.

    Workman, Breslow and Ue.

    Save Taz, Thornton and Dempster to fill in and provide some respite---then slot them in as needed. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    Moon,

    I too think that one has to be careful not to critique a managers in game decision based solely on a poor result by a player unless the err is so egregious that his own players question the move. I do think that it is well within the boundaries of all fans and the media to question strategic moves during and after regardless of the outcome. It's part of the right of passage for all fans and the job of those paid to cover the game by their respective media outlets. 

    To that end, I agree leaving Peavy in to start the 7th given the score of the game 7 to 2 and his pitch count, which was still manageable @ 105 entering the inning was well within the allowable window of "sound in game management". The benfits of getting another 3 outs from Peavy and saving some bullpen bullets with three more games left in the series was in the best interest of the team.  In hindsight I would think even Farrel would agree that perhaps it would have been better to open the frame with a fresh arm...Farrel doesn't get do overs nor does he have the luxury of hindsight. I don't have any issues with the manner in which he used Peavy or his pen. 

    My only issue with his management of that innings was the shift on Soriano with Pedrioa on the SS side of 2nd leaving a hole open on the right side of the infield, large enough to drive a heard of elephants through. That is not to suggest Soriano would not have changed his approach if the defense was aligned in a more tradional manner, clearly he would have and may well have hit it out of the park a senerio that we'll never know the answer to. However given the score of the game deploying the shift was IMHO bad situational managing. The pitch location on the outer half also enabled Soriano to stay inside the ball and hit a 25 hopper through the vacated 2nd base hole. The same pitch with Pedrioa in his usual position might have resulted in Soriano rolling over and pulling it to the left side.

    In the end the Sox won the game and the result of the game certainly took the sting out of what could have been an ugly loss. My questioning Farrel's in game strategic moves are not and should not be be construed as questioning his ability to manage nor am I suggesting that I could do better...I do see myself as a knowledgable fan of the game and don't feel that I or anyone should have to apologize for exercising our god given right to boo the umpire or question the manager. 

    The purpose of this very forum is to encourage dialog about the game we love. To that end it is during the debate that all of us can voice our opins and if one is open to seeing the merits of the opposing views, even a salty old dog like me can come away with a greater understanding and perhaps even learn a new trick...

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

    Hetch 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Just my extremely ignorant, conservatively liberal, all knowing, pervasive, practically meaningless and but extremely intellectual points of view and all of the above .

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Someone Explain to me why Jake Peavy started this inning at 105 pitches and after he sat for 15 minutes

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

    Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ba, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

    Hetch 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Just my extremely ignorant, conservatively liberal, all knowing, pervasive, practically meaningless and but extremely intellectual points of view and all of the above .

     



    Hetch,

    not sure if your diatribe above was in response to my post? I would say that irregardless of whether it was or was not. Not sure it adds much to the discussion or is it the discussion itself that you find objectionable? 

     
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