Sorry, but I don't like it

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Sorry, but I don't like it

    I never bought the idea Iglesias was so good the ERA's would plummet, nor that he was much of a hitter.  But what I saw was poetry in motion, regardless of the games outcome.  Even the routine plays.  The Sox are still worth rooting for, of course, but suddenly less fun to watch.  Maybe Bogaerts will change my mind.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    I never bought the idea Iglesias was so good the ERA's would plummet, nor that he was much of a hitter.  But what I saw was poetry in motion, regardless of the games outcome.  Even the routine plays.  The Sox are still worth rooting for, of course, but suddenly less fun to watch.  Maybe Bogaerts will change my mind.



    You 'n' me, Max.  My feelings exactly.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Iggy is a back up SS. Half of the hits he had were infield hits. The sox sold on him at the highest possible value he will ever have. Peavy is a more consistant Lester but as a RHP. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Iggy was a potential fixture at a position that has been a revolving door since  Nomar  left. He's been better than anyone could have possibly expected this year -- who cares how many of his hits are infield hits?

    I understand he had value and would have to be moved  to get someone, but he's worth a lot more than a decent 32-year-old  pitcher who  hasn't won more  than 11 games since 2007.

    I'll be happy to eat crow in October,  but I doubt that will happen.

     

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    Iggy was a potential fixture at a position that has been a revolving door since  Nomar  left. He's been better than anyone could have possibly expected this year -- who cares how many of his hits are infield hits?

    I understand he had value and would have to be moved  to get someone, but he's worth a lot more than a decent 32-year-old  pitcher who  hasn't won more  than 11 games since 2007.

    I'll be happy to eat crow in October,  but I doubt that will happen.

     



    The Sox do because he was lucky and the luck was quickly running out. Sorry, but although the glove was good, Bogey is the better all around SS. Like the Sox, I prefer a more balanced game from my SS. Ill take slightly worse defense if the offense is as good as Bogey's is. Also with either Middy or Cecchini at 3b, THAT will be a formidable left side IF in MLB.

    I was worried about Peavy too. The injury had nothing to do with his prior arm issues, but Im still concerned. The Sox had to make a move for the post season with Buch's status unknown. Ben had an obligation to the fans and the team without hurting the future. They believe Bogey is the future SS so they werent interrupting anything. we also got a controllable RH reliever who throws heat and is controlled through 2020 for the future as well.

    Its a hard pill to swallow for some and I understand that, but IMHO a move had to be done and when you can get a SP like Peavy for that price in this years market, you do it.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    2 words:  Rey Ordonez

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

     

    IF what we hear about buch is true,

    I'm not convinced sox needed peavy

    never a big iggy fan,  always thought his gloves value was overrated

    at this point he was probably less needed in bos than peavy

    good job by ben trading iggy high


    looks like holt is getting the 3B call

    mbrooks can't be loving it

    if they are not calling him up now

    is it fair to assume they tried to move him

     

    IMO they should give mbrooks another shot

    B4 bogarts gets a shot at 3B

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Injuries dictated this trade. Simple.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wmo1679. Show wmo1679's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    The Sox got the best sp avaible they could get without selling the farm. The best way to look at it. Going forward Peavy, Bogarts and other prospects will better down the road for the Sox than Lee and Iggy

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    I never bought the idea Iglesias was so good the ERA's would plummet, nor that he was much of a hitter.  But what I saw was poetry in motion, regardless of the games outcome.  Even the routine plays.  The Sox are still worth rooting for, of course, but suddenly less fun to watch.  Maybe Bogaerts will change my mind.



         Agreed. Bad, bad trade. The Sox are renting an above average, 32 year old starter for the stretch run...and are giving uo a guy who could be the second coming of Luis Aparicio. This is the sort of shortsighted, dumb move, that I had hoped that the Sox wouldn't make.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    Iggy was a potential fixture at a position that has been a revolving door since  Nomar  left. He's been better than anyone could have possibly expected this year -- who cares how many of his hits are infield hits?

    I understand he had value and would have to be moved  to get someone, but he's worth a lot more than a decent 32-year-old  pitcher who  hasn't won more  than 11 games since 2007.

    I'll be happy to eat crow in October,  but I doubt that will happen.

     



    Do you realize we have the best SS top prospect in Pawtucket right now. That door will very soon be closed!!!!! Iggy hitting has been aweful lately, your looking at a guy who at best will bat .270/3 hr/40RBI. Obviously the Red Sox care about all of his infield hits. It not like the guy was driving the ball to the gaps.

    But it honestly shows how little you actually know about baseball when you bring up wins as a stat.Chris Sale is on 6-10 this year! Anyone who follows baseball realizes he is one of the best pitchers in the game. AND HE PLAYS ON THE SAME TEAM AS PEAVY. Look at his whip, lowest of all active starters on the Red Sox 

    I look for the sox to add a guy like Micheal Young to play 3B. He reminds me alot of Mike Lowell and has had so many clutch hits in his careen. It always a bonus to add a veteran guy who has been to October. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to maine12's comment:

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    Iggy was a potential fixture at a position that has been a revolving door since  Nomar  left. He's been better than anyone could have possibly expected this year -- who cares how many of his hits are infield hits?

    I understand he had value and would have to be moved  to get someone, but he's worth a lot more than a decent 32-year-old  pitcher who  hasn't won more  than 11 games since 2007.

    I'll be happy to eat crow in October,  but I doubt that will happen.

     

     



    Do you realize we have the best SS top prospect in Pawtucket right now. That door will very soon be closed!!!!! Iggy hitting has been aweful lately, your looking at a guy who at best will bat .270/3 hr/40RBI. Obviously the Red Sox care about all of his infield hits. It not like the guy was driving the ball to the gaps.

     

    But it honestly shows how little you actually know about baseball when you bring up wins as a stat.Chris Sale is on 6-10 this year! Anyone who follows baseball realizes he is one of the best pitchers in the game. AND HE PLAYS ON THE SAME TEAM AS PEAVY. Look at his whip, lowest of all active starters on the Red Sox 

    I look for the sox to add a guy like Micheal Young to play 3B. He reminds me alot of Mike Lowell and has had so many clutch hits in his careen. It always a bonus to add a veteran guy who has been to October. 



         If Iggy is being compared favorably with the likes of Omar Vizquel and Ozzie Smith, how can anyone justify this trade? Even though Bogaerts remains, how does that justify trading a gold glove caliber SS for a stop-gap starting pitcher?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    I never bought the idea Iglesias was so good the ERA's would plummet, nor that he was much of a hitter.  But what I saw was poetry in motion, regardless of the games outcome.  Even the routine plays.  The Sox are still worth rooting for, of course, but suddenly less fun to watch.  Maybe Bogaerts will change my mind.

     



         Agreed. Bad, bad trade. The Sox are renting an above average, 32 year old starter for the stretch run...and are giving uo a guy who could be the second coming of Luis Aparicio. This is the sort of shortsighted, dumb move, that I had hoped that the Sox wouldn't make.

     

     



    Wrong, the Sox dealt from a position of strength. Boegaerts will take over everyday at SS next season guy is an all around stud. Peavy is still a solid pitcher and is signed through next season so he's not a rental. The plus in this deal is the Sox didn't have to give up any young arms.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    I hate this move.

    Is that strong enough wording?

    Peavy isn't worth a low-level draft pick or a third string catcher. Another starter with his best years behind...not that he had "best years", more like best year....2007, 6 years ago.

    "All the president is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway." - Harry S. Truman

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    Iggy was a potential fixture at a position that has been a revolving door since  Nomar  left. He's been better than anyone could have possibly expected this year -- who cares how many of his hits are infield hits?

    I understand he had value and would have to be moved  to get someone, but he's worth a lot more than a decent 32-year-old  pitcher who  hasn't won more  than 11 games since 2007.

    I'll be happy to eat crow in October,  but I doubt that will happen.

     

     



    The Sox do because he was lucky and the luck was quickly running out. Sorry, but although the glove was good, Bogey is the better all around SS. Like the Sox, I prefer a more balanced game from my SS. Ill take slightly worse defense if the offense is as good as Bogey's is. Also with either Middy or Cecchini at 3b, THAT will be a formidable left side IF in MLB.

     

    I was worried about Peavy too. The injury had nothing to do with his prior arm issues, but Im still concerned. The Sox had to make a move for the post season with Buch's status unknown. Ben had an obligation to the fans and the team without hurting the future. They believe Bogey is the future SS so they werent interrupting anything. we also got a controllable RH reliever who throws heat and is controlled through 2020 for the future as well.

    Its a hard pill to swallow for some and I understand that, but IMHO a move had to be done and when you can get a SP like Peavy for that price in this years market, you do it.

     



    I totally agree southpaw, Iggy was a great defender but Bogaerts could put up Machado/Nomar type numbers at some point and he's still only 20.  Bradley and Bogy were the ones to keep even though it may hurt our defense.  If "big if" Middy can contribute it will also solve our need for another RH bat.  Middy is presently hitting 313 in the minors against lefties with a .377 OBP and nice BB to SO ratio which doesn't mean a great deal until he can do it here but its a good sign.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    A lot of people hated the Nomar trade too.  Let it play out.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Trade good Why...

    Yes Iggy is a very good defensive SS but his hitting hurts the RS more than it will Detroit.

    He is current 5 for 43. Water seeks it's own level and he is doing that.

    His lack of hitting is less noticeable in Detroit. The RS need consistent hitting across the board and his lack there of hurts the RS offense. In case anyone has not noticed his ave has gone from 400+ t0 330 and will continue downward.

    Poetry at SS will not win you enough games to keep it running.

    If he was hitting a consistent 250 I would be on the side of keeping him but he is what he is at the plate 200 maybe. 

    LOVE my  Red Sox, Bs, Cs, Pats and enjoy the ride every year. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Peavy didn't have a bad 2012 season. W-L record decieving. Last night Tampa's worst starter went 9 innings and won. Sox had to take this chance.
    Tampa is winning while Longoria is in a slump. For the month of July he batted .200. He gets hot watch out.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    The more I read about this trade, the more I like it.  I can understand those who are upset to see Iglesias go.  I will no doubt miss his brilliant defense.  However, I really don't understand how anyone can call this a bad trade.

    For me, the most important thing about the trade is that it did not sacrifice the future of this team.  Sure we gave up Iggy, but from what I'm reading, trading him frees up a log jam at SS and Bogaerts is the real deal.  In other words, he was seemingly expendable in terms of the long term outlook.  My only concern here is that it lessens the IF/3B depth for this year, should someone get injured.

    The FO showed a real commitment to its fans and players toward winning it all this year.  Acquiring Peavy does not guarantee anything, of course.  But it sends a strong positive message to the team and also to the opponents, and IMO, gives the team some additional "swagger" for the stretch run.

    Peavy strengthens our rotation, indirectly strengthens our BP, and provides invaluable depth and insurance.

    It remains to be seen how everything will pan out, but I think it's a very good trade.   Good job Ben!

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    Iggy was a potential fixture at a position that has been a revolving door since  Nomar  left. He's been better than anyone could have possibly expected this year -- who cares how many of his hits are infield hits?

    I understand he had value and would have to be moved  to get someone, but he's worth a lot more than a decent 32-year-old  pitcher who  hasn't won more  than 11 games since 2007.

    I'll be happy to eat crow in October,  but I doubt that will happen.

     

     



    The Sox do because he was lucky and the luck was quickly running out. Sorry, but although the glove was good, Bogey is the better all around SS. Like the Sox, I prefer a more balanced game from my SS. Ill take slightly worse defense if the offense is as good as Bogey's is. Also with either Middy or Cecchini at 3b, THAT will be a formidable left side IF in MLB.

     

    I was worried about Peavy too. The injury had nothing to do with his prior arm issues, but Im still concerned. The Sox had to make a move for the post season with Buch's status unknown. Ben had an obligation to the fans and the team without hurting the future. They believe Bogey is the future SS so they werent interrupting anything. we also got a controllable RH reliever who throws heat and is controlled through 2020 for the future as well.

    Its a hard pill to swallow for some and I understand that, but IMHO a move had to be done and when you can get a SP like Peavy for that price in this years market, you do it.

     



    I totally agree southpaw, Iggy was a great defender but Bogaerts could put up Machado/Nomar type numbers at some point and he's still only 20.  Bradley and Bogy were the ones to keep even though it may hurt our defense.  If "big if" Middy can contribute it will also solve our need for another RH bat.  Middy is presently hitting 313 in the minors against lefties which doesn't mean a great deal until he can do it here but its a good sign.

     

     




    Hey craze! good "seeing" you again...

     

    I understand all the dislike for this trade. Iggy is a great defender. But I agree with the Sox in selling very high on Iggy. Theres just no telling at this point where his hitting will end up. Most of his hits were IF ones that found a hole or perfectly place. Thats luck never lasts. I enjoyed watching the kid field and he should win a few GG if he holds a FT job. With Detroits lineup, he shouldnt have an issue. They are a better fit for him IMHO.

    Bogey is just a better all around player. We will lose a bit on defense, but his offense should more than make up for it. I know its tough for some to see a solid glove up the middle go, But with Buchs health a question they had to made a move IMHO.

    Peavy started 30+ games last year after taking care of his arm issues. His injury this year wasnt related to that arm and he looked good before the rib injury. His late season numbers are great and hes a huge competitive guy. The Sox must have liked what they saw on his medical reports enough to feel comfortable trading for him along with his deal that runs through 2014, which will give guys like Webster, Ranaudo, Barnes and even Workman (although he appears to be ready) to develop another year and also gives the Sox enough starters to possibly deal one over the winter if they so choose.

    Buchholz, Lester, Peavy, lackey, Doubront, Dempster...I like it. Thats a solid top 3 with another 3 great options. They key word is health.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Another starter with his best years behind...not that he had "best years", more like best year....2007, 6 years ago.



    Please take a detailed look at his 2012 #'s.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    The more I read about this trade, the more I like it.  I can understand those who are upset to see Iglesias go.  I will no doubt miss his brilliant defense.  However, I really don't understand how anyone can call this a bad trade.

    For me, the most important thing about the trade is that it did not sacrifice the future of this team.  Sure we gave up Iggy, but from what I'm reading, trading him frees up a log jam at SS and Bogaerts is the real deal.  In other words, he was seemingly expendable in terms of the long term outlook.  My only concern here is that it lessens the IF/3B depth for this year, should someone get injured.

    The FO showed a real commitment to its fans and players toward winning it all this year.  Acquiring Peavy does not guarantee anything, of course.  But it sends a strong positive message to the team and also to the opponents, and IMO, gives the team some additional "swagger" for the stretch run.

    Peavy strengthens our rotation, indirectly strengthens our BP, and provides invaluable depth and insurance.

    It remains to be seen how everything will pan out, but I think it's a very good trade.   Good job Ben!

     



    Initially I thought this was a mistake, but after giving it some more thought, I am more positive about the move. First, Iggy was never going to be able to block Bogaerts at SS. Eventually XB was going to get that job, not the 3B job. Second, if you look at a couple of Iggy's numbers his WAR overall is 1.8 (thats the level of a reserve) and his BABIP this year is .376. How long can he maintain that kind of number? To me that shows that he has had a lot of luck at to where his balls have been hit. Add to that the facts that he has struggled recently (ie returned to form offensively) and that a significant portion of his hits were of the infield variety makes me wonder if his early offensive show was just a flash in the pan. Yes, I will miss his smooth play in the field, but I am not sure I want him as our everyday SS of the future if XB is available in that role. Add to that we get a pitcher whose ERA is very similar to Lester and Dempster and who allows Workman to go to the pen and bolster that weakness and it adds up to a reasonable trade IMO. The question now is, who plays 3B this year?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    Trade good Why...

    Yes Iggy is a very good defensive SS but his hitting hurts the RS more than it will Detroit.

    He is current 5 for 43. Water seeks it's own level and he is doing that.

    His lack of hitting is less noticeable in Detroit. The RS need consistent hitting across the board and his lack there of hurts the RS offense. In case anyone has not noticed his ave has gone from 400+ t0 330 and will continue downward.

    Poetry at SS will not win you enough games to keep it running.

    If he was hitting a consistent 250 I would be on the side of keeping him but he is what he is at the plate 200 maybe. 

    LOVE my  Red Sox, Bs, Cs, Pats and enjoy the ride every year. 



    His hitting hurts the Sox? What about a 9.5M SS hitting .225?

    Give me a break.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Stupid is as stupid does. Everyone thinis XB will be a great SS But they also thought WMB would be the future at 3B and he's back at AAA.

     Next year, the Sox will be right back where they've been for the last 10 years........ Looking for someone to replace Nomar.









    "You don't save a pitcher for tomorrow.  Tomorrow it may rain."  ~ Leo Durocher

     
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