Sorry, but I don't like it

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    You are right about the odds are 50-50 on Peavy.  Probably less because pitching in Fenway as a sox can be tough.....Eric Gagne.



    Right, so let's just not trade for pitchers ever again.  Good thinking. 

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to patrickford's comment:

    Peavy is a decent pitcher. Right now I don't see where he is an upgrade on anyone in Boston's starting five, and that is without Buchholtz in the mix. 

    Why do I think Peavy will pitch less well in Boston than he has pitched (not so great) in Chicago? It's because there are very few players who come to Boston and play better than they had played some place else. The city is a pressure cooker and a lot of players haven't been able to deal with it. 

    Long term, if Bogaerts can play shortstop then he's got to remain at short. That increases his value to the team tremendously.  For the moment the Sox needed Iggy as shortstop depth. 



    Im not trying to be rude, but come on people. You just said that he doesn't pitch well in Chicago. He has a 2.6 ERA in Chicago this year. So if your asking if he can pitch in front of his home crowd then the awnser is YES. 

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

     

    You are right about the odds are 50-50 on Peavy.  Probably less because pitching in Fenway as a sox can be tough.....Eric Gagne.

     



    Right, so let's just not trade for pitchers ever again.  Good thinking. 

     

     

     




    Nope, did not say that but nice negative spin by you.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    OK well, maybe you could make more of an effort to explain why Peavy is 'probably less than 50-50'.  All I saw was 'pitching in Fenway as a Sox can be tough', and 'Eric Gagne'

    Please do expand on those insightful thoughts. 

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to patrickford's comment:

    Peavy is a decent pitcher. Right now I don't see where he is an upgrade on anyone in Boston's starting five, and that is without Buchholtz in the mix. 




    For the same reason I wanted Garza.  WHIP of 1.18 throughout his career which is in fact better than everyone we have. 

    Consistency!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to jackbu's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

     

    You are right about the odds are 50-50 on Peavy.  Probably less because pitching in Fenway as a sox can be tough.....Eric Gagne.

     



    Right, so let's just not trade for pitchers ever again.  Good thinking. 

     

     

     

     




    Nope, did not say that but nice negative spin by you.

     

     



    OK well, maybe you could make more of an effort to explain why Peavy is 'probably less than 50-50'.  All I saw was 'pitching in Fenway as a Sox can be tough', and 'Eric Gagne'

     

    Please do expand on those insightful thoughts. 

     



    I don't remember where I read this but Peavy has great numbers against all the AL East teams which was also a factor with bringing him in.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    I am not surprised the "rah, rah" people who believe the front office can do no wrong love this deal.

    In Peavy I see a guy who hasn't won more than 11 games ( and he lost 12 that year!!!)in 7 and a half years. Surely the White Sox aren't that inept as fielders, 8 White Sox pitchers have a lower ERA than Peavy. Looking at W/L totals can be helpful, but this guy is average at best.

    Anyone who thinks Jake Peavy will be the answer ( in the way that Schilling and Beckett were the answers in 2004 and 2007 ) is crazy.

    At best this guy gets the Red Sox into 3rd place.....which likely won't be good enough. Certainly not worth dealing a guy with a tremendous upside, not fully realized.

    Iglesias will join Masterston and Reddick as players we wish we could have back.

    "All the president is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway." - Harry S. Truman

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    I don't remember where I read this but Peavy has great numbers against all the AL East teams which was also a factor with bringing him in.

     

    Just in case anyone's interested (as I was):


    vs TB  4.99 ERA/1.34 WHIP (4 starts)
    vs BAL  2.77/0.92 (2 starts)
    vs NYY  3.96/1.20 (4 starts)
    vs TOR  3.60/1.09 (5 starts)

    other AL contenders:
    vs DET  4.83/1.21 (12 starts)
    vs CLE 3.93/1.01 (11 starts)
    vs KC 4.60/1.33 (13 starts)
    vs OAK 1.80/0.93 (2 starts)
    vs TEX 7.59/1.59 (4 starts)

    at Fenway: 3.86/0.86 (1 start)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    I never bought the idea Iglesias was so good the ERA's would plummet, nor that he was much of a hitter.  But what I saw was poetry in motion, regardless of the games outcome.  Even the routine plays.  The Sox are still worth rooting for, of course, but suddenly less fun to watch.  Maybe Bogaerts will change my mind.

     



     

    I have used the expression "poetry in motion" many times to describe athletes.  I am an Iggy fan and all I can say is seeing him in play in person is a lot more enjoyable than on the tv.  I don't think Bogaerts is the answer.

    With all the Ortiz fans here I would think Iggy would get more respect.  I heard on 98.5 this morning and on WEEI that David called Iggy one of the best if not the best short stops he has ever seen.

    Each time I use either of these stations as a source, someone calls it lame.  So possibly David never said anything like this?



    Defensively, no doubt Iggy is the best SS Papi has ever seen. Do you think Ortiz was commenting about his offensive potential? Of course not. His Babip was .376; there is no way he is going to continue that. In addition, he is blocking our SS of the future. In return we got a guy that has about the same numbers as Lester and Dempster and now we can move Workman to the pen where is will certainly help. I think that in a few years Iggy will prove to be a good defensive replacement, but nothing more.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    I am not surprised the "rah, rah" people who believe the front office can do no wrong love this deal.

    In Peavy I see a guy who hasn't won more than 11 games ( and he lost 12 that year!!!)in 7 and a half years. Surely the White Sox aren't that inept as fielders, 8 White Sox pitchers have a lower ERA than Peavy. Lokking at W/L totals can be helpful, but this guy is average at best.

    Anyone who thinks Jake Peavy will be the answer ( in the way that Schilling and Beckett were the answers in 2004 and 2007 ) is crazy.

    At best this guy gets the Red Sox into 3rd place.....which likely won't be good enough. Certainly not worth dealing a guy with a tremendous upside, not fully realized.

    Iglesias will join Masterston and Reddick as players we wish we could have back.

    "All the president is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway." - Harry S. Truman




    Do you think the Sox gave up as much for Peavy as they did for Schilling or Beckett?

    I'm sorry, but LOL!!!

    And you can probably fit the number of Sox fans that are pining for Reddick in a rowboat.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reddijo01.shtml

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

     

    IF what we hear about buch is true,

    I'm not convinced sox needed peavy

    never a big iggy fan,  always thought his gloves value was overrated

    at this point he was probably less needed in bos than peavy

    good job by ben trading iggy high


    looks like holt is getting the 3B call

    mbrooks can't be loving it

    if they are not calling him up now

    is it fair to assume they tried to move him

     

    IMO they should give mbrooks another shot

    B4 bogarts gets a shot at 3B

     



    Agree with everything except the part about Middlebrooks. I think with Middlebrooks, they jsut want him focused on getting his batting approach on track by keeping him in Pawtucket awhile longer and staying patient.

     

    We'll see.

    I'm inclined to say that Middlebrooks will get the call back up before Bogaerts (before Sept.) but who knows?

    I think ideally, Middlebrooks comes up, wins the jobs, stays at 3B for the next two years. Bogaerts takes over at SS for the next two years. Then by the time Bogaerts fills out more and might be too big for SS, by then Marrero is ready and takes over at SS, Bogaerts moves to 3B, and Middlebrooks takes over 1B. Or Bogaerts moves to the OF with Cecchini taking over at 3B.

     



    Yup, this is what I have been saying.  Middy comes up before Bogaerts.

     



    Middy should not come up until his K/BB ratio drastically improves.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

     

    I am not surprised the "rah, rah" people who believe the front office can do no wrong love this deal.

    In Peavy I see a guy who hasn't won more than 11 games ( and he lost 12 that year!!!)in 7 and a half years. Surely the White Sox aren't that inept as fielders, 8 White Sox pitchers have a lower ERA than Peavy. Looking at W/L totals can be helpful, but this guy is average at best.

    Anyone who thinks Jake Peavy will be the answer ( in the way that Schilling and Beckett were the answers in 2004 and 2007 ) is crazy.

    At best this guy gets the Red Sox into 3rd place.....which likely won't be good enough. Certainly not worth dealing a guy with a tremendous upside, not fully realized.

    Iglesias will join Masterston and Reddick as players we wish we could have back.

    "All the president is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway." - Harry S. Truman

     




    Sorry, but who cares about his W-L record? If you look at his numbers from last year, you'll see that he had an excellent season.

     

    It's funny how he "at best" gets us into third place...when we're 0.5 out of first without him already. I don't think anyone is expecting him to be Schilling or Beckett, but now we're insured against the possibility that Buchholz doesn't come back this year, and it's better than rolling the dice with Workman/Webster/other rookies or the likes of Aceves in the meantime. I'd say that's worth what we gave up...I'm sad to lose Iglesias and his truly mind-blowing defense, but his numbers were starting to drop like a rock again and this may have been the time to sell high on him.

    (Also, don't look now, but Reddick stinks...)

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I am not surprised the "rah, rah" people who believe the front office can do no wrong love this deal.

    In Peavy I see a guy who hasn't won more than 11 games ( and he lost 12 that year!!!)in 7 and a half years. Surely the White Sox aren't that inept as fielders, 8 White Sox pitchers have a lower ERA than Peavy. Lokking at W/L totals can be helpful, but this guy is average at best.

    Anyone who thinks Jake Peavy will be the answer ( in the way that Schilling and Beckett were the answers in 2004 and 2007 ) is crazy.

    At best this guy gets the Red Sox into 3rd place.....which likely won't be good enough. Certainly not worth dealing a guy with a tremendous upside, not fully realized.

    Iglesias will join Masterston and Reddick as players we wish we could have back.

    "All the president is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway." - Harry S. Truman

     




    Do you think the Sox gave up as much for Peavy as they did for Schilling or Beckett?

     

    I'm sorry, but LOL!!!

    And you can probably fit the number of Sox fans that are pining for Reddick in a rowboat.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reddijo01.shtml

    [/QUOTE]

    You won't be the first one to laugh at my comments.

    But I was the guy who was telling all the "rah, rah" people to wait and see what Adrian Gonzalez and Daisuke Matsuzaka do on the field before electing them to the All Star team. Many posters here had Gonzalez as MVP before he had his first at bat in a Sox uniform!!!!...I did not so much doubt it as I wanted to wait and see.

    You heard it here first , save it and remember it, Peavy will be a huge disappointment and people will be sorry we dealt Iglesias away.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    I don't remember where I read this but Peavy has great numbers against all the AL East teams which was also a factor with bringing him in.

     

    Just in case anyone's interested (as I was):


    vs TB  4.99 ERA/1.34 WHIP (4 starts)
    vs BAL  2.77/0.92 (2 starts)
    vs NYY  3.96/1.20 (4 starts)
    vs TOR  3.60/1.09 (5 starts)

    other AL contenders:
    vs DET  4.83/1.21 (12 starts)
    vs CLE 3.93/1.01 (11 starts)
    vs KC 4.60/1.33 (13 starts)
    vs OAK 1.80/0.93 (2 starts)
    vs TEX 7.59/1.59 (4 starts)

    at Fenway: 3.86/0.86 (1 start)



    I thought it read much better than that against Tampa flapjack but it may have been for this season. 

    Thanks for the numbers!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    I guess I'm much too conservative to be a GM - or maybe I've been jaded by being a Red Sox fan for as long as I have.   Here's the way I see it:
    This team is currently rolling alone 1/2 game out of 1st and the FO has just traded away our starting 3B (who also may be our SS of the future).  This is going to work out perfectly if....

    Jake Peavey pitches well and doesn't go down with any further injuries

    and

    Stephen Drew gets his stroke back so he can hit like he has in the past - which he hasn't done recently.  One swallow doesn't make a summer any more than one double makes a trend.

    and

    the FO somehow finds/discovers someone to play 3B who can contribute as much on balance as Iggy did (Middlebrooks?  Bogarts?  Young? Who knows?)  Isn't this a poor point in the season to not have any idea who your starting 3B is going to be?

    and...

    Bogarts pans out as our future SS (he has HOW MANY ML games now?  Hint <1).  I'd have preferred to be sure he could do it before I traded away my "insurance".  (See JBJ)

    If any one of these things doesn't work out the FO would have been better off not having made that trade.   In a worst case scenario the Sox wouldn't have qualifed for PS play and the Sox would go to Ft.M next March with someone they knew could handle the SS position.  And that's the worst case. 

    Am I being unduly pessimistic to think that all four of these things aren't going to go as planned?   I truly hope this works but had I been the GM it wouldn't have happened. There are too many things that could go wrong to believe that at least one of them wouldn't. 

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    I thought it read much better than that against Tampa flapjack but it may have been for this season. 

     

    Thanks for the numbers!



    he is 3-1 vs TB in 5 careeer starts.  his era vs them is blown up by a terrible start in 2010 giving up 7ER in 4.1 IP.

    This season he had 1 start vs them (W) 6.2 / 3ER

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     

    I thought it read much better than that against Tampa flapjack but it may have been for this season. 

     

    Thanks for the numbers!

     



    he is 3-1 vs TB in 5 careeer starts.  his era vs them is blown up by a terrible start in 2010 giving up 7ER in 4.1 IP.

     

    This season he had 1 start vs them (W) 6.2 / 3ER



    Got it thanks!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    I am not surprised the "rah, rah" people who believe the front office can do no wrong love this deal.

    In Peavy I see a guy who hasn't won more than 11 games ( and he lost 12 that year!!!)in 7 and a half years. Surely the White Sox aren't that inept as fielders, 8 White Sox pitchers have a lower ERA than Peavy. Looking at W/L totals can be helpful, but this guy is average at best.

    Anyone who thinks Jake Peavy will be the answer ( in the way that Schilling and Beckett were the answers in 2004 and 2007 ) is crazy.

    At best this guy gets the Red Sox into 3rd place.....which likely won't be good enough. Certainly not worth dealing a guy with a tremendous upside, not fully realized.

    Iglesias will join Masterston and Reddick as players we wish we could have back.

    "All the president is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway." - Harry S. Truman




    I dont want reddick or masterson back and I probably wont want Iggy back either...I was fine with every one of those moves and wish those players well.

    Most fans seem more realistic then "rah-rah".

    They are concerned about Peavys health, but realize that Iggy was expendable because the FO sees Bogey as the SS of the future, not Iggy. Theoretically, like the above trades you mentioned, this was a good move. Hopefully it will play out that way on the field. They sold high on Iggy, which is how you do things.

    Dont say that because some of us understand and like the deal that we are all "rah-rah" and Ben can do no wrong just because we dont agree with you and a few others. There are still concerns as well as a respect for Iggy. But there also an understanding of which direction the team is going and sometimes tough moves like this are made.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Of course, one could argue that if they hadn't traded Justin Masterson they wouldn't need to make this trade.

    See how bad, panic deals can continue to cripple the team years later?

    Sometimes the best trades you make are the ones you don't make. The Tigers have Vistor Martinez and Iglesias, the Indians have Masterson and we are stuck with Peavy, who couldn't win more than 11 games since coming to the AL....Masterson has more wins already this season with the Indians!!...the Indians, who potenially could beat out the Red Sox for a playoff spot. Wouldn't that be sweet for Justin and Tito?

    "All the president is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway." - Harry S. Truman

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to S5's comment:

    I guess I'm much too conservative to be a GM - or maybe I've been jaded by being a Red Sox fan for as long as I have.   Here's the way I see it:
    This team is currently rolling alone 1/2 game out of 1st and the FO has just traded away our starting 3B (who also may be our SS of the future).  This is going to work out perfectly if....

    Jake Peavey pitches well and doesn't go down with any further injuries

    and

    Stephen Drew gets his stroke back so he can hit like he has in the past - which he hasn't done recently.  One swallow doesn't make a summer any more than one double makes a trend.

    and

    the FO somehow finds/discovers someone to play 3B who can contribute as much on balance as Iggy did (Middlebrooks?  Bogarts?  Young? Who knows?)  Isn't this a poor point in the season to not have any idea who your starting 3B is going to be?

    and...

    Bogarts pans out as our future SS (he has HOW MANY ML games now?  Hint <1).  I'd have preferred to be sure he could do it before I traded away my "insurance".  (See JBJ)

    If any one of these things doesn't work out the FO would have been better off not having made that trade.   In a worst case scenario the Sox wouldn't have qualifed for PS play and the Sox would go to Ft.M next March with someone they knew could handle the SS position.  And that's the worst case. 

    Am I being unduly pessimistic to think that all four of these things aren't going to go as planned?   I truly hope this works but had I been the GM it wouldn't have happened. There are too many things that could go wrong to believe that at least one of them wouldn't. 

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.




    S5, do you think that they dont havea fairly good idea what they are going to do? They are in charge of running a billion dollar+ company (Thats what the Sox are worth) and I think they have every possible angle covered. Good and bad.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

     

    Of course, one could argue that if they hadn't traded Justin Masterson they wouldn't need to make this trade.

    See how bad, panic deals can continue to cripple the team years later?

    Sometimes the best trades you make are the ones you don't make. The Tigers have Vistor Martinez and Iglesias, the Indians have Masterson and we are stuck with Peavy, who couldn't win more than 11 games since coming to the AL....Masterson has more wins already this season with the Indians!!...the Indians, who potenially could beat out the Red Sox for a playoff spot. Wouldn't that be sweet for Justin and Tito?

    "All the president is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway." - Harry S. Truman

     




    We got Matt Barnes and Henry Owens for letting Martinez walk.

     

    And your still siting W-L record? come on Zill...He had 32 starts  219IP a 3.37ERA the year he won 11 games with a 1.096WHIP 194K and  49BB...Im thinking it might have had something to do with the team not giving him any run support.

    but dont worry, you just keep siting his 11 wins that year to try and make hoim look worseUndecided

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Frank N Stein. Show Frank N Stein's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Peavy is another Aaron Cook. a guy who had one good year in the NL.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to Frank N Stein's comment:

    Peavy is another Aaron Cook. a guy who had one good year in the NL.




    Really? from 2004-2008 Peavy had a 2.95ERA going 68-44 968.2IP (just under 200IP avg per year) 1010K 292BB ERA+ 133 1.138 WHIP 9.4K/9 2.7BB/9

    Id say thats a solid 5 year span...Might wanna do a little more homework before you post more garbage like that Frank.

    Yeah, he only had one good yearUndecided  this is too easy.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    This appears to be a win now move. My gut tells me they probably make the playoffs, but don't make it to the World Series. If they prove me wrong and do win it all, is this deal worth it? Maybe. You can buy a lot of fan good will with a championship. On the other hand, our "can't miss" prospects in the minors might not make it. Iggy is the real deal with the glove, even if his hitting becomes sub-par. If he proves to be a long term, full time defensive wizard, we could regret this deal. Sox have a short window to get maximum value from Peavey. Is a championship worth it? Could be. But it's a long shot.





    "Hold it fellows, that don't move me. Let's get real, real gone for a change."

    -Elvis Presley

     
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