Sorry, but I don't like it

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to teamguy's comment:

    If Buchholz is healthy, the Iggy trade never happens, imo.

    But if you're going to trade a glove like that , at least trade for someone healthy. Peavy's injury history is extensive. Injuries in 4 of the past 5 years with significant time missed.

    I'd never swap Iggy for that, but i don't have a seat in the office.



    That's a good reason why Ben Cheringtons in the front office and you're not.

    Hetch

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    I would only say Peavy pitched 219 inn. last season--by todays standards most pitchers don't throw more than that.

    And

    For all the Ells supporters that claim he has legit injuries--Peavy has thrown 80 inn. this season--has an 8-4 record, a 4.3 ERA, and missed 6  weeks with a rib injury. Anyone complaining about giving up Iggy---an exceptional fielder---for a COMPETITIVE MAJOR LEAGUE READY PITCHER WITH A HISTORY OF WINNING---during  a TIGHT PENNANT RACE when you need all hands on deck and ALL THE GOOD PITCHING YOU CAN FIND----please don't complain about trading a fun to watch SS with NO BAT for an every 5 th day starter.

    Iggy has had a magical year---he's gone---Drew is OUR SS full time as of yesterday. Last night may be the beginning of a magical run to the playoffs---Personnally I also like Drew's glove in a different way than Iggy's. The Tigers made a great insightful trade--there aren't many GM's like BenC and Dombrowski that could have pulled that 3 way trade off each getting the perfect piece they needed.

    I wish Iggy the best he helped get us into 1 st place and stay there most of the season. I can honestly say if I were Dombrowski I would have traded for Drew but he wanted Iggy--he knows talent and he got a fine player and so did the Sox.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Let go of Masterson.  Geez!

    Some Sox fans act like we traded away Tom Seaver in that deal...

    Peavy is a good pitcher, something the Sox needed.  And the Sox sold high on Iglesias to get him.  I liked Iglesias, too.  But liking a player does not make him indispensable.  Just like no t liking a player does not make him more tradable..

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    As the dust settles around this trade let me say that I'm Sox fan and don't see any way I'll ever be anything else, but that doesn't mean that I like everything that gets done within the organization.
    I'm also a "defense first" kinda guy and as such I have what may be an unusual appreciation for gifted defensive players.  I've always subscribed to the notion, "If they don't score more than you do they can't beat you", and one of the best ways to keep them from beating you is by having a better defense.

    I also believe that there are certain defensive positions you build your team around and they fall pretty much along the defensive talent spectrum;  SS, 2B, CF, Catcher.  Solid up the middle, as it may be.  Any better-than-usual offense you get from those positions is a plus.  You then build the power offense around the remaining positions, the corner positions, and of course in the AL, the Designated Hitter.  (I've always wondered if I'm not a NL fan at heart. :-) )

    Going into this season I saw the Sox as a ~.500 team but building for the very near future. I'm of the opinion that the FO sold us on that idea with the intent of having us NOT have high expectations for the 2013 season.  And I bought into it.  Short term pain for long term gain.  And I had seen just enough of Iggy to believe that he was going to be the SS of the future.  The talk a cost-controlled IF of Bogarts, Iggy, Pedey, and Middlebrooks with Chiccini (sp?) as our fallback plan should anything unforseen happen.  And I liked it.  Very much. 

    Then as the season progressed things changed.  The FO got greedy and the fans got greedy.  We wanted that championship NOW, not forsake this year for a long term plan.  So we no longer have our slick-fielding SS and instead we have a pitcher and the team has gone to a "Plan B" for the future.  (I'm still of the opinion that just as this team doesn't have enough talent to be where they are, the only way they'll win a WS is the same way they've gotten to where they are - through team chemistry.  Is that going to be enough to carry them?  Wait and see, I guess, but were I a betting man I'd bet against it.  But I could be - and I hope I am very wrong.)

    I'm frustrated that the FO has weakened the left side of the defense in mid season- I'm a defense guy, remember? -  but I have to tell myself that this is going to work out, if not this year then next.  I'm still not sure who's going to play that cost-controlled 3B either this year or next and I would MUCH have perferred to see Bogarts prove that he can play at the ML level before we traded the guy he's going to replace.  I'm not saying he can't, I'm just saying that it's not unreasonable to SEE it.

    The upside of this trade as I see it is that we now have a pitcher for at least 1 1/2 years who, while not a TOTR pitcher, is someone whom we can expect to get the job done.    I'm still concerned about this .428 ERA this season and whether that's really going to help us, but he's at least experienced and those two things together shouldn't hurt us. 

    I also like the fact that IF Bogarts is as advertised he's going to give the team power at one of my defensive positions (SS) which will make the Sox a better team in the future. 

    Obviously it's not a trade I would have made but OTOH I don't have much money invested in it so I don't have a say.  I'll probably grumble a bit about it but life will go on.  When I see a SS not get to a ball in the hole or not throw someone out I'll probably grumble to myself, "Iggy woulda had it", and I'll also say what I said last night when Snyder hit that double to left-center, "Iggy probably wouldn't have hit that".  

    It's baseball.  It's not life or death, only baseball, and life goes on.

    There's my rant for this morning.  "As you were", ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for reading it.  :-)

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    S5,

    A lot of good thoughts--better than a rant. 

    That said, I think the Sox have historically--since John Henry became the owner--been basically disinterested in excellent fielding, especially at SS. 

    Crisp and then Ellsbury in CF would seem to belie that, but remember that Johnny Damon had that job in 2004 when the Sox won their first WS in 86 years, and Johnny Damon was primarily a good hitter.  The Sox let him go only because the Yankees offered him a lot of money.   And Ellsbury I think took Crisp's job mostly because he was a bigger threat on offense. 

    As for SS, the 2007 WS winning Sox shortstop was a guy named Lugo, enough said.  In 2004 the SS was a hodgepodge of Reese, Nomar, and Orlando Cabrera--none a magician with the glove, so the next year they got Renteria, also not a glove man, and the year after Alex Gonzalez, great with a glove but not good enough with the bat, so he lasted one season.    If Lowrie had stayed healthy, he would have been the SS because he could hit, not because he could field. 

    Pedroia is the great exception at 2B, but of course he is also a terrific hitter. 

    Lowell was pretty good at 3B, but the Sox valued him as a hitter--120 rbi's in the 2007.  J.D. Drew was a very good fielding/throwing rightfielder, but he got that $14M x 5 contract because of his hitting. 

    At catcher Varitek would seem to be another exception, but his career OPS was .776, which is very good for a catcher. 

    I am guessing that Bill James must have some stats that say something like this:  "defense is important, but not nearly as important as hitting and pitching, especially when you play home games at Fenway Park."   

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    these last 2 posts are awesome.  ^^^^^

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

                                        Let me tell you why this deal stinks and is doomed to fail. Allow me to take some liberties with numbers and I think you'll see where I'm coming from. We got roughly 50 games left when Peavy makes his first start.He'll have a total of ten starts til the end of the season. His average innings pitched per start this year is 6. If he performs to his average he will throw an additional 60 Innings til seasons end Sept.30. What we know from this years numbers is that he'll average a strike out per inning and a homerun per outing. If we had Iggy he'd play 500 + innings, giving us great defense and maybe end up hitting .225. I'd much rather have Iggy for 500+ innings  than Peavy for 60 maybe innings. And for this great deal we give up (3) more minor leaguers, take on 20+ Million in a 2014 contract + a players option for 2015 and maybe some of this years money. Our  team is significantly weaker on infield defense. Another point is that he,(Ben), saved a potential rival Detroit from possibly not making the playoffs if they lose Perralta, by giving them Iggy for nothing. We didn't get anything from Detroit. Detroit gave Chicago A.Garcia and we got Peavy from Chicago. Benny..........you got hosed again, big time. You're way over your head on this stuff.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    S5,

    A lot of good thoughts--better than a rant. 

    That said, I think the Sox have historically--since John Henry became the owner--been basically disinterested in excellent fielding, especially at SS. 

    Crisp and then Ellsbury in CF would seem to belie that, but remember that Johnny Damon had that job in 2004 when the Sox won their first WS in 86 years, and Johnny Damon was primarily a good hitter.  The Sox let him go only because the Yankees offered him a lot of money.   And Ellsbury I think took Crisp's job mostly because he was a bigger threat on offense. 

    As for SS, the 2007 WS winning Sox shortstop was a guy named Lugo, enough said.  In 2004 the SS was a hodgepodge of Reese, Nomar, and Orlando Cabrera--none a magician with the glove, so the next year they got Renteria, also not a glove man, and the year after Alex Gonzalez, great with a glove but not good enough with the bat, so he lasted one season.    If Lowrie had stayed healthy, he would have been the SS because he could hit, not because he could field. 

    Pedroia is the great exception at 2B, but of course he is also a terrific hitter. 

    Lowell was pretty good at 3B, but the Sox valued him as a hitter--120 rbi's in the 2007.  J.D. Drew was a very good fielding/throwing rightfielder, but he got that $14M x 5 contract because of his hitting. 

    At catcher Varitek would seem to be another exception, but his career OPS was .776, which is very good for a catcher. 

    I am guessing that Bill James must have some stats that say something like this:  "defense is important, but not nearly as important as hitting and pitching, especially when you play home games at Fenway Park."   

     

    First of all, Cabrera was acquired because he was a good glove-man with range, and he was. His hitting was gravy and he hit well in his short term. Reese was about as good a defensive player I've ever seen in his short time at SS also--did you even watch him play on defense? Obviously Moneyball's message was that defense isn't as important as generating offense with strong pitching. I am a defense is King guy at SS, so I agree that Iglesias would have been a golden commodity there... (think Alex Gonzalez defense at SS with Sox--fantastic, people forget that...couldn't hit though...same thing as Jose--at least every expert feels Jose is not a MLB hitter over a long haul). The Sox feel Boogaarts is the real deal. They felt Jose was already a defensive wizard, but they wanted offense so bad at SS--they signed Drew to make sure they had some production from that spot. Turns out it was Middlebrooks who has imploded as an offensive player--at least for now. Scutaro and Lowrie are examples that the Sox valued offense at SS--again I agree with you max. However, Lugo is another good example of apparently the lack of importance of a good defensive SS over a good starting pitcher. You can win WS titles with adequate defense as long as you have good starting pitching, consistent relievers, and enough offense to win. Helps to win tons of walk-offs and pull rabbits out of the hat.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to eggplants's comment:

                                        Let me tell you why this deal stinks and is doomed to fail. Allow me to take some liberties with numbers and I think you'll see where I'm coming from. We got roughly 50 games left when Peavy makes his first start.He'll have a total of ten starts til the end of the season. His average innings pitched per start this year is 6. If he performs to his average he will throw an additional 60 Innings til seasons end Sept.30. What we know from this years numbers is that he'll average a strike out per inning and a homerun per outing. If we had Iggy he'd play 500 + innings, giving us great defense and maybe end up hitting .225. I'd much rather have Iggy for 500+ innings  than Peavy for 60 maybe innings. And for this great deal we give up (3) more minor leaguers, take on 20+ Million in a 2014 contract + a players option for 2015 and maybe some of this years money. Our  team is significantly weaker on infield defense. Another point is that he,(Ben), saved a potential rival Detroit from possibly not making the playoffs if they lose Perralta, by giving them Iggy for nothing. We didn't get anything from Detroit. Detroit gave Chicago A.Garcia and we got Peavy from Chicago. Benny..........you got hosed again, big time. You're way over your head on this stuff.  



    When broken down this way the deal really stinks.  I am trying to stay optimistic and hopefully Peavy comes thru.  But when a kid comes up from the minors and moves positions without one complaint, and plays that new position like a veteran, then the Red Sox should have thought more about keeping him.  I am sure the Tigers loved Iggy for the reasons I just stated and more.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to teamguy's comment:

    If Buchholz is healthy, the Iggy trade never happens, imo.

    But if you're going to trade a glove like that , at least trade for someone healthy. Peavy's injury history is extensive. Injuries in 4 of the past 5 years with significant time missed.

    I'd never swap Iggy for that, but i don't have a seat in the office.



    you make a lot of sense

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    been offline since before the trade...i dont like it for all of the stated reasons above....Peavy will be like VMart and be a rental while Iggy like Masterson will be an all-star...

    so much for Ben caring about the future

    As always - 100% correct!

     
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it


    Dannycater,

    All good points.  I did not in fact watch many 2004 games so I didn't know about Reese and, really, not Cabrera either.  My impression that year was that Theo wanted to keep Nomar, who was a very good hitter and so-so fielder, but Garciaparra wanted more money--huge mistake on his part.  So, almost as he did with Manny Ramirez in 2008, Theo was squeezed to get rid of Nomar and took whoever he could get a good deal for, Cabrera, who worked out very well but reportedly had some off the field issues which led to his departure. 

    I don't like losing Iglesias but have a lot of faith in Ben C, and he seems to be driven, as you say, by the tenets of moneyball, just as Theo was. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to eggplants' comment:

     

                                        Let me tell you why this deal stinks and is doomed to fail. Allow me to take some liberties with numbers and I think you'll see where I'm coming from. We got roughly 50 games left when Peavy makes his first start.He'll have a total of ten starts til the end of the season. His average innings pitched per start this year is 6. If he performs to his average he will throw an additional 60 Innings til seasons end Sept.30. What we know from this years numbers is that he'll average a strike out per inning and a homerun per outing. If we had Iggy he'd play 500 + innings, giving us great defense and maybe end up hitting .225. I'd much rather have Iggy for 500+ innings  than Peavy for 60 maybe innings. And for this great deal we give up (3) more minor leaguers, take on 20+ Million in a 2014 contract + a players option for 2015 and maybe some of this years money. Our  team is significantly weaker on infield defense. Another point is that he,(Ben), saved a potential rival Detroit from possibly not making the playoffs if they lose Perralta, by giving them Iggy for nothing. We didn't get anything from Detroit. Detroit gave Chicago A.Garcia and we got Peavy from Chicago. Benny..........you got hosed again, big time. You're way over your head on this stuff.  

     




    Drew has 3 errors at SS and has been solid all year. So theres a couple hits up the middle that Iggy MIGHT get to and actually make the out, not just get to the ball. Also Drew brings a much better bat to the game which tips the scales in his favor.

     

    We NEED a starter for ins. against injury, pitchers tiring out towards the end, etc. we got a guy who put up solid #2 numbers last year. He had a 2.97ERA before experiencing issues with his rib this year and pitched a couple subpar games that jacked his ERA up into the 4's. Was immediately placed on the DL to find out he was pitching with a broken rib. gotta put everything in the right context in this game. At least he tried to tough it out and pitch through it, something everyone is blesting Clay for not doing.

    We needed a pitcher more than an all glove no bat SS since we had a solid vet already and an MLB top #3 ranked player, who's a SS, in AAA ready to come up. Ben knows way more than you or I will ever know when it comes to scouting/development and putting together a MLB baseball team. My guess is you would have already drown, nevermind being in way over your head.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to eggplants' comment:

     

                                        Let me tell you why this deal stinks and is doomed to fail. Allow me to take some liberties with numbers and I think you'll see where I'm coming from. We got roughly 50 games left when Peavy makes his first start.He'll have a total of ten starts til the end of the season. His average innings pitched per start this year is 6. If he performs to his average he will throw an additional 60 Innings til seasons end Sept.30. What we know from this years numbers is that he'll average a strike out per inning and a homerun per outing. If we had Iggy he'd play 500 + innings, giving us great defense and maybe end up hitting .225. I'd much rather have Iggy for 500+ innings  than Peavy for 60 maybe innings. And for this great deal we give up (3) more minor leaguers, take on 20+ Million in a 2014 contract + a players option for 2015 and maybe some of this years money. Our  team is significantly weaker on infield defense. Another point is that he,(Ben), saved a potential rival Detroit from possibly not making the playoffs if they lose Perralta, by giving them Iggy for nothing. We didn't get anything from Detroit. Detroit gave Chicago A.Garcia and we got Peavy from Chicago. Benny..........you got hosed again, big time. You're way over your head on this stuff.  

     




    Drew has 3 errors at SS and has been solid all year. So theres a couple hits up the middle that Iggy MIGHT get to and actually make the out, not just get to the ball. Also Drew brings a much better bat to the game which tips the scales in his favor.

     

    We NEED a starter for ins. against injury, pitchers tiring out towards the end, etc. we got a guy who put up solid #2 numbers last year. He had a 2.97ERA before experiencing issues with his rib this year and pitched a couple subpar games that jacked his ERA up into the 4's. gotta put everything in the right context in this game.

    We needed a pitcher more than an all glove no bat SS since we had a solid vet already and an MLB top #3 ranked player, who's a SS, in AAA ready to come up. Ben knows way more than you or I will ever know when it comes to scouting/development and putting together a MLB baseball team. My guess is you would have already drown, nevermind being in way over your head.




    Seems like you are getting out numbered on the iggy move.   Ready to come up as in tonight?  If you think that then you haven't seen Bogaerts play the field in Pawtucket recently.  Even his coach does not seem confident when asked the question.

    Again, with your love for Ortiz you should give iggy a little more respect, Ortiz does.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Of the 4 top prospects - Xander Bogaerts, Will Middlebrooks, Jose Inglesias, and Jackie Bradley, Inglesias was the most expendable.

    Yes, Inglesias is a slap hitter who happens to be a wiz at SS. Yet Peavy is no slouch. He's locked up for 2014.

    Peavy vs Garza (Fangraphs)

    In addition to XB, the Sox have SS Deven Marrero. He's good defensively, gets on base, and is an efficient base stealer (18/19 in A+ Salem). I expect him to play in Portland next year.

     

     

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

                                         Southpaw777,    .......Man, you got a dead battery. You're all flumoxed up by time, real time, today time, now , 8/2/13 as opposed to past time, last year...CWS time, #2 starter time. Today time, now time Peavey's ERA is 4+. Did he pass his physical yet?  I would like to think that Ben knows more about player  developement/ scouting than I do, but he hasn't shown me jackshot yet.You say we need a starter for insurance? Workman showed you that starter stuff in Oakland. He was the insurance starter you were looking for. Benny must not have been impressed with Workman....he went out and spent 25MM, gave up (3) A Ball prospects, and Iggy for an insurance policy starter in case someone got hurt?   Their called DIE HARD......Sears Automotive Dept.. Might as well pick one up for your buddy Ben while you're at it ....you know, so both of you can get back on the road of flawed baseball logic.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    Yeah because Jose Iglesias is going to add more value at SS from 2014 on than XANDER BOGAERTS!!!

    This deal gives you a good chance to win this year and maybe next year; yes there are injury concerns. Then you open up the door for the most talented and exciting prospect this town has seen in a long time.  Not only that but you also open up the door to add a lot more offense this year over on the left side of the indield, which also may help us out this year. 

    Iggy was probably never going to be much of a hitter.  His BABIP was ridiculously high and he was bound for a crash...and that is exactly what we saw in July.  

    No one is going to be talking about Jose as the one who got away 2 years from now.  It's all about Bogaerts

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to eggplants' comment:

     

                                         Southpaw777,    .......Man, you got a dead battery. You're all flumoxed up by time, real time, today time, now , 8/2/13 as opposed to past time

     



    realtime?  realtime??? you want realtime???

     

    ok, here is J. IGLESIAS realtime for you:

    last 28 days:  .169 BA / .200 OBP  / .169 SLG / 10 K's / 1 BB

     

    flumox that.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

                                             slasher9............I just called southpaw777 and told him to pickup another Die Hard Battery for you too.  28 days ago is not real time.Real time is now. In the present.Iggy's batting average, now in the present is .330. Don't let southpaw777 keep hitting you in the head with that cast iron frying pan. Think slasher think. present is now, 8/2/13. His Boston BA will merge with his Detroit BA in two months and we'll get an idea of what we gave away. For nothing, not even a can of brake fluid. Iggy's going to a team that paid nothing for him. Now I've got another guy telling me Iggy's replacement is the greatest thing since sliced Anchovies. This replacement has never played 3b at the ML level but he's coming to bail us out for the next (2) months and bring a.330 BA with him. He'll play stellar defense and make us forget Iggy so fast your head will spin. Really? I kid you not. These guys really believe this shat. They're the Saber Boys and they've been baffled by one of the biggest bafflers of modern time, second only to the master baffler Bernie Madoff......May I have the envelope please?   Bill James, 2nd.place.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to eggplants' comment:

     

                                             slasher9............I just called southpaw777 and told him to pickup another Die Hard Battery for you too.  28 days ago is not real time.Real time is now. In the present.Iggy's batting average, now in the present is .330. Don't let southpaw777 keep hitting you in the head with that cast iron frying pan. Think slasher think. present is now, 8/2/13. His Boston BA will merge with his Detroit BA in two months and we'll get an idea of what we gave away. For nothing, not even a can of brake fluid. Iggy's going to a team that paid nothing for him. Now I've got another guy telling me Iggy's replacement is the greatest thing since sliced Anchovies. This replacement has never played 3b at the ML level but he's coming to bail us out for the next (2) months and bring a.330 BA with him. He'll play stellar defense and make us forget Iggy so fast your head will spin. Really? I kid you not. These guys really believe this shat. They're the Saber Boys and they've been baffled by one of the biggest bafflers of modern time, second only to the master baffler Bernie Madoff......May I have the envelope please?   Bill James, 2nd.place.

     



    Oh they gave up nothing for him? so Detriot DIDN"T send their #2 prospect to a division rival to cover a position they already PAY a guy to handle.

     

    I wouldn't call that....gave up nothing.  We gave a up a kid who was blocking the future to improve our weakest link going into the playoffs.  Ben C is a smart man.

     I'm not saying Bogaerts is going to give you .330 but if you think Iggy is going to give you .330 then your in for a surprise. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

                                    Hugh, This is how it works. Iggy went from Boston to Detroit. Who did Boston get from Detroit? Iggy's BA is .330 now, today, as he boards a plane for Detroit. Chicago got a Detroit near ready prospect. We gave up an everyday player,Iggy, and he would have played every day based on what he showed so far (50 games remaining X 9 inn./Game) = about 400+ innings til the end of the season, for Peavey , (10 Starts, 6 inn./Start ) = 60 innings maybe. You think your guy Bogaerts who's making his ML debut shortly is going to give us Iggy numbers? You think 60 innings of Peavey is better than than 400 innings of Iggy? Hugh Iggy is giving us .330 today, last I looked. Now here comes Bogaerts, never been here before and you've got him as better than Iggy in both departments. Good luck with that projection.Lets not forget about Chicago in this deal. They dumped about 25MM in salary , picked up an ML ready OF'er from Detroit and 3 easy pieces from our farm system.After all is said and done, we're out 25MM and (4) players. How can you possibly figure we won? In essence this is what happened. Two ALC  GM's teamed up and played Rope-A-Dope with an ALE GM. They did bad things to him and after it was over the ALE GM came home and declared victory. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to eggplants' comment:

                                    Hugh, This is how it works. Iggy went from Boston to Detroit. Who did Boston get from Detroit? Iggy's BA is .330 now, today, as he boards a plane for Detroit. Chicago got a Detroit near ready prospect. We gave up an everyday player,Iggy, and he would have played every day based on what he showed so far (50 games remaining X 9 inn./Game) = about 400+ innings til the end of the season, for Peavey , (10 Starts, 6 inn./Start ) = 60 innings maybe. You think your guy Bogaerts who's making his ML debut shortly is going to give us Iggy numbers? You think 60 innings of Peavey is better than than 400 innings of Iggy? Hugh Iggy is giving us .330 today, last I looked. Now here comes Bogaerts, never been here before and you've got him as better than Iggy in both departments. Good luck with that projection.Lets not forget about Chicago in this deal. They dumped about 25MM in salary , picked up an ML ready OF'er from Detroit and 3 easy pieces from our farm system.After all is said and done, we're out 25MM and (4) players. How can you possibly figure we won? In essence this is what happened. Two ALC  GM's teamed up and played Rope-A-Dope with an ALE GM. They did bad things to him and after it was over the ALE GM came home and declared victory. 



    So in conclusion.....your the only person who thinks we got hosed! I'm not talking about just the Boston media we are talking about the greater baseball community.  Let's revisit this trade in September and see if Iggy is giving anyone a .330. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    All I care about on Xander is he is brought here when it is right to play SS...otherwise trading Iggy was a 1-year move.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    In response to eggplants' comment:

                                         Southpaw777,    .......Man, you got a dead battery. You're all flumoxed up by time, real time, today time, now , 8/2/13 as opposed to past time, last year...CWS time, #2 starter time. Today time, now time Peavey's ERA is 4+. Did he pass his physical yet?  I would like to think that Ben knows more about player  developement/ scouting than I do, but he hasn't shown me jackshot yet.You say we need a starter for insurance? Workman showed you that starter stuff in Oakland. He was the insurance starter you were looking for. Benny must not have been impressed with Workman....he went out and spent 25MM, gave up (3) A Ball prospects, and Iggy for an insurance policy starter in case someone got hurt?   Their called DIE HARD......Sears Automotive Dept.. Might as well pick one up for your buddy Ben while you're at it ....you know, so both of you can get back on the road of flawed baseball logic.



    Like I said. Peavy had a 2.97ERA on 5/30/13 and tried to work through a rib injury where he didnt do well. That jacked his ERA up. Context my friend. The 3 A ball kids are projected to be 2 bullpen arms and a UI. So no, we didnt lose much with 2 18yo and a 19yo who were years, if at all, away from being MLB ready, so dont act as if they were something special... No, I dont want to rely on a rookie pitcher who will be at his innings limit before september is out. Workman is at 122IP already and has never thrown more than 138IP in his career. We also needed a RHP for the pen so the move to get Peavy also gave us that arm for the pen in Workman. Lackey was off all last year. Could he hit a wall? Doubie has never thrown more than 160IP. Could he hit a wall like he did last year? Do you trust Dempster? Oh, and in case you werent paying attention, Buch has been out since 6/8 with a lot of set backs.

    Its better to cover your azz then be without good starting pitching when your a 1st place team looking to go deep into the playoffs. Iggy is an all glove no bat SS that was expendable due to the teams depth. Now they have more Depth in the rotation.

    By the way...Thanks for the concern but my battery is fully charged and I obviously have forgotten more about baseball that you know junior...Im sure Ben would have a good laugh reading your version of baseball "logic"...I know I did.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Sorry, but I don't like it

    It appears most every (if not every) baseball talking head across the country thinks the Red Sox made a great trade.  I have not seen a negative take on it by a sportswriter or a quoted GM.  Note, they do not quote GMs by name, just say an AL GM or an NL GM.

    If a manager doesn't have confidence in his ball players, even when they're going badly, they're not going to have confidence in themselves. And when a ballplayer's confidence is gone, you haven't got a ballplayer - Birdie Tebbetts

     
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