Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    Ortiz was on the market a year ago. There were no takers on any multi-year deal that significantly exceeded the 2 year deal the Red Sox gave him. His extension is the likely extra year deal for 2014 that no other team was likely to go when he was FA last winter. 

    Ownership has no reason to give an extension when Ortiz is so old that he's in the year to year contract phase of his career and he actually made a mistake by insisting on 2 years because he'd do better in the FA market if he was FA this winter. He's now trying to use 2013 to talk 2015. I don't blame him for trying, but he bet against himself in 2013. 

    There's no way Ortiz is going to find a 2015 FA market that goes beyond 1 year and about 5 to 10M guaranteed plus max CBA incentives. That is the market, even if he has another 100RBI and 30HR season with the Red Sox. His age and medical history (including the presser on the administrative testing) make this a market reality.

    At this point, Red Sox ownership should tell him there is an standing oral agreement, end of 2014, to rollover, year to year, a mutual option for a guaranteed 9 or 10M plus max CBA incentives. They should tell him that they don't have a problem with him checking out the Frank Thomas approach to the end of his career, but should he choose not to do that then they will give him a lifetime services consulting contract that equals any such deals with current Red Sox "legends". If he wants to do one year with the Dark Side and get in the DH wheelchair line, then the lifetime services contract offer is still there when he retires but at a slightly less amount per year.   

    The Red Sox should have tried to get Ortiz to retire at the end of 2013 and signed him to a 1 year deal that expired year end (They may have), so they could sign a profile like Morales for DH and do a 1 year deal on Konerko and then watch Middlebrooks and Cecchini in 2014 and go into the 2015 FA and trade market without being able to properly plan ahead for Ortiz's departure. 

    But it is what it is, and the Red Sox are now in the position of going into 2015 with the destinct posssiblity that Napoli will need to DH more because of health and/or a great value and longterm fit option emerges from within (Middlebrooks) or from without in next winter's FA and trade market. 

    The Red Sox should not roster obligate themselves to Ortiz beyond 2014, under any circumstance. They need to plan ahead and will be able to bring Ortiz back for 2015 unless he just becomes spiteful (in which case it's time to move on and mend the little fence a short time down the road after his Frank Thomas musical chair DFA stage of his career ends on the Varitek and Wakefield and Thomas et al terms).

    It's sad that professional athletes making a lot of money playing a kid's game rarely ever go out on top on their own terms. Even Michael Jordan looked like an old fool when he went out there with the Wizards and looked like just another old NBA vet near the end. At some point, wanting to leave the game as a player with the last memories being playing the game at the high level standards should be considered strongly over panhandling for another contract.

    Regardless, Red Sox ownership needs to retain full flexibility for the 1B/DH market for 2015. 

    B I N G O  THAT  !!!!     I am afraid that "when the sun finally sets on PAPI" it will get ugly on the way out of town !!!!


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    Bill:

    I cannot imagine it getting ugly.  Even if he pulls the respect hard like Pedro, the sox will eventually invite him back.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to steven11's comment:

    Bill:

    I cannot imagine it getting ugly.  Even if he pulls the respect hard like Pedro, the sox will eventually invite him back.

    Time will tell .......   He did get a little hard to handle in TITO's last year !!!


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    All the Sox have to do is give him QO, if they want him back. That Draft Pick blocks alot of Players.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    I am afraid that "when the sun finally sets on PAPI" it will get ugly on the way out of town !!!!



    Your attitude toward him always has, and always will be, ugly.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Heavens for bid if people have different opinions on this board....  Reading all of the above posts indicates that there are at least 2 other posters asking the same questions/opinions that i have ......  Then there is the usual pile on/demonizing right out of the playbook of the "BIG O" & COMPANY.......



    BILL, it is you doing the demonizing on this city's biggest sports hero of our lifetime. You've been doing it for years.

    Then, you demonize those of us who are "cheerleading" our greatest sports hero.

    When we respond to your nonsense, you then accuse us of demonizing you and the handful of other clowns who are on your side.

    Gott love your Big O analogy. Once again, it shows you have everything upside down and backwards. No president in my lifetime has ever been subjected to this amount of demonizing by the extreme right wing including you and your pal softy the clown. Even his citizenship, religion and sexual orientation have been questioned. We all know the main reason why: the same as we know why you have demonized Papi.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to steven11's comment:

    Bill:

    I cannot imagine it getting ugly.  Even if he pulls the respect hard like Pedro, the sox will eventually invite him back.



    It has already been "ugly" to BILL & the clown. They just can't stand the fact that Papi hasn't broken down on their projected schedule.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    It's like the racist saying, "I have plenty of black friends...".

    It's like softy the clown wanting Mike Lowell to be our DH in the winter, then bashing him relentlessly all season long, and after the season ends, calling Mikey one of his favorite players.

    Mike Lowell's exit was not "ugly". His injury kept him from doing well, but there was nothing ugly about it. Nothing. Except to the few clowns that think hindsight judgement trumps all. Nobody expected Mike's injury to progress so quickly. When he was extended, I heard people saying he took a hometown discount. Later, the deal was ridiculed in hindsight.

    Contrary to what some clowns have implied here, I have not said we should extend Papi at this time. All I did was point out that I never heard a peep on Schill's extension. 

    I would not complain if Ben added another year for Papi right now. Sure, it would hurt if he got hurt or declined rapidly and gave us next to nothing in 2015, but that's the risk you take with any long contract or extension. It comes down to what you project Papi to produce in 2015. If it is too questionable and risky to you, then of course you wait a year, but the way I look at it is this:

    1) The DH position is not hard at all.

    2) Papi does not have any injury, like a degenerating hip, that indicates he can not play another 2-4 years.

    3) Papi is this city's biggest sports hero for as long as I remember.

    4) He has way more than earned his past salaries.

    5) He is and has been the face of the franchise for years and years, despite how much that hurts some clowns, racists, and Papi despisers for other reasons.

     

    I hold no grudges against Papi for asking to extend at this point, despite the "verbal agreement" not to do so.

    Was it "ugly" when Bobby Orr retired? Bird? 

    The ugliest retirement I have seen was Pedro not retiring in a Sox uniform. I hope that doesn't happen to Papi. 

    (Note: I was not for outbidding for Pedro's last contract. Theo did the right thing, but if Pedro had asked for a one year extension, I'd have jumped at the opportunity, despite his medical condition.)

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from baddad. Show baddad's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    if anybody deserves an extension its big daddy ortiz

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    just look at what ortiz did in the playoffs...nobody could get him out...just ortiz being ortiz...best DH ever.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    orientation - a person's feelings, interests, and beliefs. : a main interest, quality, or goal. : the process of giving people training and information about a new job, situation, etc.

    Anyone, define "orientation" in the context of sexual proclivity.



    One of the definitions of 'orientation' is 'preferences'.  'Sexual preferences' - that covers it doesn't it?

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Heavens for bid if people have different opinions on this board....  Reading all of the above posts indicates that there are at least 2 other posters asking the same questions/opinions that i have ......  Then there is the usual pile on/demonizing right out of the playbook of the "BIG O" & COMPANY.......



    BILL, it is you doing the demonizing on this city's biggest sports hero of our lifetime. You've been doing it for years.

    Then, you demonize those of us who are "cheerleading" our greatest sports hero.

    When we respond to your nonsense, you then accuse us of demonizing you and the handful of other clowns who are on your side.

    Gott love your Big O analogy. Once again, it shows you have everything upside down and backwards. No president in my lifetime has ever been subjected to this amount of demonizing by the extreme right wing including you and your pal softy the clown. Even his citizenship, religion and sexual orientation have been questioned. We all know the main reason why: the same as we know why you have demonized Papi.

    MOON,  you have had 39,000+ OPINIONS, may I please have mine without you trying to lecture me on my opinions ... THANK YOU...  ALSO, please don't compare PAPI with th "BIG O" as one destroys the baseball and the other is destroying the country !!!!


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Heavens for bid if people have different opinions on this board....  Reading all of the above posts indicates that there are at least 2 other posters asking the same questions/opinions that i have ......  Then there is the usual pile on/demonizing right out of the playbook of the "BIG O" & COMPANY.......



    BILL, it is you doing the demonizing on this city's biggest sports hero of our lifetime. You've been doing it for years.

    Then, you demonize those of us who are "cheerleading" our greatest sports hero.

    When we respond to your nonsense, you then accuse us of demonizing you and the handful of other clowns who are on your side.

    Gott love your Big O analogy. Once again, it shows you have everything upside down and backwards. No president in my lifetime has ever been subjected to this amount of demonizing by the extreme right wing including you and your pal softy the clown. Even his citizenship, religion and sexual orientation have been questioned. We all know the main reason why: the same as we know why you have demonized Papi.

    MOON,  you have had 39,000+ OPINIONS, may I please have mine without you trying to lecture me on my opinions ... THANK YOU...  ALSO, please don't compare PAPI with th "BIG O" as one destroys the baseball and the other is destroying the country !!!!




    I have never said you don't have a right to your opinion or to express your opnion, but when you start saying I am demonizing you and the clowns like the Big O, I think I have a right to give my opinion right "back at cha" as your hero, Sarah, would say.

    Reminder: it was you who brought up the "Big O" in this discussion. I mearly responded with my 39,001 opinion.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Heavens for bid if people have different opinions on this board....  Reading all of the above posts indicates that there are at least 2 other posters asking the same questions/opinions that i have ......  Then there is the usual pile on/demonizing right out of the playbook of the "BIG O" & COMPANY.......



    BILL, it is you doing the demonizing on this city's biggest sports hero of our lifetime. You've been doing it for years.

    Then, you demonize those of us who are "cheerleading" our greatest sports hero.

    When we respond to your nonsense, you then accuse us of demonizing you and the handful of other clowns who are on your side.

    Gott love your Big O analogy. Once again, it shows you have everything upside down and backwards. No president in my lifetime has ever been subjected to this amount of demonizing by the extreme right wing including you and your pal softy the clown. Even his citizenship, religion and sexual orientation have been questioned. We all know the main reason why: the same as we know why you have demonized Papi.

    MOON,  you have had 39,000+ OPINIONS, may I please have mine without you trying to lecture me on my opinions ... THANK YOU...  ALSO, please don't compare PAPI with th "BIG O" as one destroys the baseball and the other is destroying the country !!!!




    I have never said you don't have a right to your opinion or to express your opnion, but when you start saying I am demonizing you and the clowns like the Big O, I think I have a right to give my opinion right "back at cha" as your hero, Sarah, would say.

    Reminder: it was you who brought up the "Big O" in this discussion. I mearly responded with my 39,001 opinion.

    TRUE DAT Mr. MOON .........  I just can't keep up with you as you are a much better writer than I .......  I do enjoy the back & forth thou......


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

     

    It's sad that professional athletes making a lot of money playing a kid's game rarely ever go out on top on their own terms.



    It's sad that people who never played professional sports pass judgement on professional athletes career decisions. Walk a mile in their shoes and see what you say.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    I'm not passing judgment, I'm stating a fact and stating that I feel it's sad. 

    You have your feelings, I have mine. But those who use the prhase "don't pass judgment" have always already passed judgment. 

    B I N G O DAT !!!!


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    Just do it. How many questionable (and some ultimately disastrous) multi-year deals have the RS given out over the past decade, while Ortiz has mostly been underpaid and/or gone year to year? I admire the prudence with which Cherington has run the team so far, but I think he can afford to risk overreaching a little bit on Big Papi. If anyone deserves it, it's him.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    Ortiz was on the market a year ago. There were no takers on any multi-year deal that significantly exceeded the 2 year deal the Red Sox gave him. His extension is the likely extra year deal for 2014 that no other team was likely to go when he was FA last winter. 

    Ownership has no reason to give an extension when Ortiz is so old that he's in the year to year contract phase of his career and he actually made a mistake by insisting on 2 years because he'd do better in the FA market if he was FA this winter. He's now trying to use 2013 to talk 2015. I don't blame him for trying, but he bet against himself in 2013. 

    There's no way Ortiz is going to find a 2015 FA market that goes beyond 1 year and about 5 to 10M guaranteed plus max CBA incentives. That is the market, even if he has another 100RBI and 30HR season with the Red Sox. His age and medical history (including the presser on the administrative testing) make this a market reality.

    At this point, Red Sox ownership should tell him there is an standing oral agreement, end of 2014, to rollover, year to year, a mutual option for a guaranteed 9 or 10M plus max CBA incentives. They should tell him that they don't have a problem with him checking out the Frank Thomas approach to the end of his career, but should he choose not to do that then they will give him a lifetime services consulting contract that equals any such deals with current Red Sox "legends". If he wants to do one year with the Dark Side and get in the DH wheelchair line, then the lifetime services contract offer is still there when he retires but at a slightly less amount per year.   

    The Red Sox should have tried to get Ortiz to retire at the end of 2013 and signed him to a 1 year deal that expired year end (They may have), so they could sign a profile like Morales for DH and do a 1 year deal on Konerko and then watch Middlebrooks and Cecchini in 2014 and go into the 2015 FA and trade market without being able to properly plan ahead for Ortiz's departure. 

    But it is what it is, and the Red Sox are now in the position of going into 2015 with the destinct posssiblity that Napoli will need to DH more because of health and/or a great value and longterm fit option emerges from within (Middlebrooks) or from without in next winter's FA and trade market. 

    The Red Sox should not roster obligate themselves to Ortiz beyond 2014, under any circumstance. They need to plan ahead and will be able to bring Ortiz back for 2015 unless he just becomes spiteful (in which case it's time to move on and mend the little fence a short time down the road after his Frank Thomas musical chair DFA stage of his career ends on the Varitek and Wakefield and Thomas et al terms).

    It's sad that professional athletes making a lot of money playing a kid's game rarely ever go out on top on their own terms. Even Michael Jordan looked like an old fool when he went out there with the Wizards and looked like just another old NBA vet near the end. At some point, wanting to leave the game as a player with the last memories being playing the game at the high level standards should be considered strongly over panhandling for another contract.

    Regardless, Red Sox ownership needs to retain full flexibility for the 1B/DH market for 2015. 

    B I N G O  THAT  !!!!     I am afraid that "when the sun finally sets on PAPI" it will get ugly on the way out of town !!!!





    If he ended the year without a comtract, there would have been lots of takers this year.  Whatever the sox do will be the right choice.  I bet Ben waits on this a bit and sees how Ortiz does the first half of 2014.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    The player cannot even enjoy winning the World Series long enough before he starts hinting at needing security. 'Gotta know where I will be playing in two years' will be the next thing out of his mouth.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    I'm just glad the Yankees spent a bunch of money on Ellsbury and passed on Ortiz at the end of 2012. 



    So you could root against him for most of 2013?  As you did....  LOL

    Irony is so lost on the weak of mind....

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox & Papi Talking Extension?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    I'm just glad the Yankees spent a bunch of money on Ellsbury and passed on Ortiz at the end of 2012. 



    So you could root against him for most of 2013?  As you did....  LOL

    Irony is so lost on the weak of mind....



    Now, what will the clown do if Jake has a huge season?

    a) blame it on the park

    b) blame it on who bats behind him

    c) blame it on the reverse pivot style of hitting

    d) all of the above

     
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