sox aquire aviles from kc

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    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    Forgive me but I am not impressed with this move. This is as bad as picking up Casey Kotchman in 2009.
     
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    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]Here we go again, with everyone overvaluing some Sox prospect? Navarro? .258 in Pawtucket. Whoo! Hoo! Do some people think that what a player does in the minors counts for nothing? That's how progess is gaged by the big club. Guys like Navarro and Reddick stunk at AAA. Remember the biggest untouchable? The "Justin Morneau clone" Lars Anderson? Plays more like Morneau after his concussion last year, and has very little value. Not every prospect is going to be an All-Star or future Cy Young winner. Get used to it. Most of these "prospects" will never do anything much in MLB. Fact.
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    Yes, but every great player in the major leagues was at one time just a prospect on a minor league team. They come up through the minor league system and are not bought at Walmart or Sears. Time and patience historically decides which prospects make it. Remember how many here told us that Pedroia, Youkilis, Bard, Ellsbury, Bucholz, and Lester would never make the grade? The grass isn't always greener on the other side ( other teams) instead of in your system.
     
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    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]Who knows for sure what is going to happen with any prospect. Navarro may well still have an excellent career. I just like telling it as I see it. We are just playing GM here to a degree, or at least I am, and so far I think my call was coorect on Navarro. I argued with most of the people at soxprospects about Navarro for the last couple years and it was Oh No...why noi love for Navarro? He's a great prospect...etc. I just didn't see it and I still don't, and I'm pretty sure the Redsox were not all that enamored about him either since they just traded him for a more expensive nobody and they had to throw in another prospect to boot! I have been all over Navarro lately since so many people here were saying he should be playing in place of Scutaro right now. I just didn't think that was the right way to go and it looks like the Sox agreed. I honestly do not get the Navarro appeal. Look at his body. No way he has range at SS. 
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]
    You made a projection. By definition, a projection cannot be correct until it materializes. And if you turn out to be right, don't crow, as is your wont. It's bad form.  You and the Sox agree, or at least Sox officials who make these calls. That's as far as you can go. Obviously I hope both you and Theo are wrong -- very wrong.  But I have no idea what the future holds for Navarro, and neither do you.
    You might have said that you disagreed with people who wanted the young man to replace Scutaro without getting all over him. Why put down any prospect who's developing? You don't have to do that to make your point.   You overlooked the fact that he made progress at every level.  You cherry-picked. 
    Have you ever seen what Vern Stephens looked like?
    You've been almost as bad on this subject as the person who implied that Navarro might become a fat boy who can't pay  attention.
    I've been around baseball for a very long time. It is a great game, but it's far and away the biggest BS sport of them all. 
    Let's watch people on the field of play after they've had sufficient time on the field of play.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc : You made a projection. By definition, a projection cannot be correct until it materializes. And if you turn out to be right, don't crow, as is your wont. It's bad form.  You and the Sox agree, or at least Sox officials who make these calls. That's as far as you can go. Obviously I hope both you and Theo are wrong -- very wrong.  But I have no idea what the future holds for Navarro, and neither do you. You might have said that you disagreed with people who wanted the young man to replace Scutaro without getting all over him. Why put down any prospect who's developing? You don't have to do that to make your point.   You overlooked the fact that he made progress at every level.  You cherry-picked.  Have you ever seen what Vern Stephens looked like? You've been almost as bad on this subject as the person who implied that Navarro might become a fat boy who can't pay  attention. I've been around baseball for a very long time. It is a great game, but it's far and away the biggest BS sport of them all.  Let's watch people on the field of play after they've had sufficient time on the field of play.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    What does this statement mean?
    Is it a reflection of fan ignorance?

    On Navarro, I too am disappointed in that we never got to see him at SS.
    But I hope he makes good.

    The team is going for experience in a PO run. Also insurance for next year.
    Aviles has a decent bat vs. lefties.

    I wonder if the issues we discussed involving Navarro (on thread NAVARRO, Harness?) influenced this deal.
     
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    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    I don't like this trade at all.  But I guess that's why I make millions of dollars managing an MLB team or working in the front office of an MLB team somewhere. I really liked Navarro's prospects, and, knowing his background in the DR and the way he idolized Papi, I thought that Boston was the place for him to develop.  That and the fact that he'll do anything that the Sox asked him to do--I bet he would have even put on the catcher's gear, if they had asked!  

    Aviles--I don't get.  We need PITCHING--starting PITCHING.  I'm not sure that delicate flower of the mound Rich Harden is going to do it, since he seems to be injured every other week (maybe he plans to visit the Beth Israel booth at Fenway), but I am  somewhat hopeful (cynical, too, but hopeful).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]Here we go again, with everyone overvaluing some Sox prospect? Navarro? .258 in Pawtucket. Whoo! Hoo! Do some people think that what a player does in the minors counts for nothing? That's how progess is gaged by the big club. Guys like Navarro and Reddick stunk at AAA. Remember the biggest untouchable? The "Justin Morneau clone" Lars Anderson? Plays more like Morneau after his concussion last year, and has very little value. Not every prospect is going to be an All-Star or future Cy Young winner. Get used to it. Most of these "prospects" will never do anything much in MLB. Fact.
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    Mind if I tell you your a moron with a pizz poor attitude? Who cares if you do, I just told you. Have you ever posted anything positive about the Sox players? Did not think so! Ive been reading your crap for a few weeks now, you seem like a Yankee wanna be, so just go be!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc : I just never thought Navarro was what he was projected to be on soxprospects. He has been over rated since day one, and I think this just confirms my projection. He is very likely to be a career mlb sub / minor league guy. I hope he goes on to have a great career and maybe he will be of more value to KC.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]

    Ya lost a lot of respect from me, you cannot have it both ways Boom! I hope he does as exactly like you suggest at KC and then I want to hear you whine! Im shocked at your statements!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    I am not fond of this trade at all.  5 years from now, I supsect Aviles will be out of baseball, and Navarro will be in the starting lineup.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

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    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc : What does this statement mean? Is it a reflection of fan ignorance? On Navarro, I too am disappointed in that we never got to see him at SS. But I hope he makes good. The team is going for experience in a PO run. Also insurance for next year. Aviles has a decent bat vs. lefties. I wonder if the issues we discussed involving Navarro (on thread NAVARRO, Harness?) influenced this deal.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Harny, Dont seriously give yourself credit, if you do your totally delusional and you give Burrito fuel to burn you!
     
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    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    I thought it was sweet how happy and excited he seemed to be in the dugout at the game tonight. I know that may not be worth much, but I don't really know him. I guess I'm just happy he's happy to be here, and IMO that can/may effect how he plays for the team.

    I also think there may be things we don't know as to why we needed to make this trade, since I don't believe an infielder was on the radar. Also, Francona's comments as to making him a possible outfielder if need be, sounded to me like they may not be getting one, and will use the fielders they have. I'm not against that at all.
     
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    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc : Mind if I tell you your a moron with a pizz poor attitude? Who cares if you do, I just told you. Have you ever posted anything positive about the Sox players? Did not think so! Ive been reading your crap for a few weeks now, you seem like a Yankee wanna be, so just go be!
    Posted by promise4you[/QUOTE]

    If only we had more guys like you with a backbone here, Sox fans wouldn't have to put up with half the crap that gets posted here. JMO
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]Forgive me but I am not impressed with this move. This is as bad as picking up Casey Kotchman in 2009.
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]

    Kotchman's a pretty good ballplayer; he just got buried on the bench with the RS; he's a "Mientkiewicz" type; great fielder, perhaps as good as it gets, questionable up/down hitter; and this yr, he's hitting .329 in mostly a Full Time role.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

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    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc : Harny, Dont seriously give yourself credit, if you do your totally delusional and you give Burrito fuel to burn you!
    Posted by promise4you[/QUOTE]

    No, not at all. In fact, I am hoping the Navarro trade was based on on-field performance. It'd be sad otherwise.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    Aviles sounds like another Drew Sutton. I'm not impressed.
     
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    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc : Yes, but every great player in the major leagues was at one time just a prospect on a minor league team. They come up through the minor league system and are not bought at Walmart or Sears. Time and patience historically decides which prospects make it. Remember how many here told us that Pedroia, Youkilis, Bard, Ellsbury, Bucholz, and Lester would never make the grade? The grass isn't always greener on the other side ( other teams) instead of in your system.
    Posted by Your-Echo[/QUOTE]

    Ellsbury, Buchholz, Bard, and Lester were always hot prospects, Lester's illness notwithstanding. Now I see why you rarely venture into actual baseball topics.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    Ellsbury, Buchholz, Bard, and Lester were always hot prospects, Lester's illness notwithstanding. Now I see why you rarely venture into actual baseball topics.

    Pedroia and Papelbon were also hot prospects. Youkilis is probably the only player who significantly exceeded expectations. He was considered a high OBP guy, however I don't think anyone anticipated his power numbers and defensive skills at 1B.

    An example of a highly-touted prospect who did not work out would be Michael Bowden. He was supposedly going to be a No. 1 or 2 starter. Now he looks like a journeyman mop-up man. I think Lars Anderson was once highly regarded as well. He no longer seems to be an elite prospect. Darnell McDonald was supposed to be a perennial All-Star and he's barely a fifth outfielder.

    Players like J.D Drew and Jarrod Saltalamachhia occupy the middle category of guys who climbed through the minor league system as projected superstars, only to become decent major leaguers. You can't call them failures exactly because they were solid contributors, and in Drew's case, did so for a reasonable number of years. They just didn't satisfy their lofty expectations.

    I'd rather be a Kevin Youkilis (or Josh Reddick?) who bursts onto the scene and pleasantly surprises people rather than someone who comes up with a lot of pressure and never meets it.
     
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    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]Hey Sweetheart, Promise4shit, I've been following the Sox since 1961, and have forgotten more than you'll ever know. Don't like what I write? Not a Theo bootlicker like you? Don't speak the company line? Awww! To damned bad, pal. Move on and read something else. Idiot!
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    I read another post of yours talking about red dick, (Edit: Your spelling, not mine.)and how bad he's doing. If you're a Sox fan, why bother? They're not your favorite players, anyway.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

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    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc : What does this statement mean? Is it a reflection of fan ignorance? On Navarro, I too am disappointed in that we never got to see him at SS. But I hope he makes good. The team is going for experience in a PO run. Also insurance for next year. Aviles has a decent bat vs. lefties. I wonder if the issues we discussed involving Navarro (on thread NAVARRO, Harness?) influenced this deal.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    No, I wasn't thinking of fans. I was thinking of sportswriters, scouts, "insiders" of all kinds and stripes, including managers, coaches, GM's, and, ta da, players.  Baseball is a Big Talkers game, and always has been. In the years that I worked for Rod, I heard a lot of that stuff from people who claimed to have the inside track or to have the real skinny or, simply, to know better.  Sparky Anderson, for instance, was a good manager and a nice guy; but, oh my, how the ____ did flow. Remember that Bench said, "We got tired of him." In this arena, Lasorda is competitive. And on and on.
    I have no idea why the Sox gave up on Navarro. Others think they know, in part because the reasons were obvious. The young man had progressed nicely through the system. Katz thinks that the Sox decided that Navarro's ceiling wasn't high enough for the organization. Probably so.  Man, do I hope the club was wrong. It's not as if ( ahem ) it hasn't been wrong before, more than once. 
    So what will it be next year? Iglesias will stay in AAA until he learns to hit a ball off a tee while Lowrie and Aviles duel to see who will be the SS and the utility guy. Look forward to that?
    Experience in a pennant drive is overrated. I'll go with the best talent every time.  I say that as a general point, not in reference to Boston's current situation.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    Aviles is the new Rh OF'er;) LMAO!
     
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    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]Aviles is the new Rh OF'er;) LMAO!
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]
    Terry didn't say exactly that but something close enough. See my post about BS.

     
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    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    expitch,

    A lot of dumb posters on here, but you at least don't follow the herd. Pretty clear that Theo feels the heat for Crawford/Cameron and no money for Ellsbury long term. This is pitiful, and almost a defiant type of move unless it's to set up another last minute suprise deal. I'll believe it when I see it.

    He has so far ignored the market and allow the Phillies to trump him in a does of irony.

    It's not about making the playoffs, it's about winning it and planning beyond this year. Both can be done, but not if Theo fails to admit and adjust from the Crawford ball and chain move.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

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    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc : No, I wasn't thinking of fans. I was thinking of sportswriters, scouts, "insiders" of all kinds and stripes, including managers, coaches, GM's, and, ta da, players.  Baseball is a Big Talkers game, and always has been. In the years that I worked for Rod, I heard a lot of that stuff from people who claimed to have the inside track or to have the real skinny or, simply, to know better.  Sparky Anderson, for instance, was a good manager and a nice guy; but, oh my, how the ____ did flow. Remember that Bench said, "We got tired of him." In this arena, Lasorda is competitive. And on and on. I have no idea why the Sox gave up on Navarro. Others think they know, in part because the reasons were obvious. The young man had progressed nicely through the system. Katz thinks that the Sox decided that Navarro's ceiling wasn't high enough for the organization. Probably so.  Man, do I hope the club was wrong. It's not as if ( ahem ) it hasn't been wrong before, more than once.  So what will it be next year? Iglesias will stay in AAA until he learns to hit a ball off a tee while Lowrie and Aviles duel to see who will be the SS and the utility guy. Look forward to that? Experience in a pennant drive is overrated. I'll go with the best talent every time.  I say that as a general point, not in reference to Boston's current situation.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Yeah. I get what you mean. The game's infinite variables inevitably lead all involved to different branches of height and depth. This is a kinder way of phrasing it.
    Horse racing is very similar in this respect. Scuttlebutt can be a powerful weapon if depicted properly:)
     
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    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]expitch, A lot of dumb posters on here, but you at least don't follow the herd. Pretty clear that Theo feels the heat for Crawford/Cameron and no money for Ellsbury long term. This is pitiful, and almost a defiant type of move unless it's to set up another last minute suprise deal. I'll believe it when I see it. He has so far ignored the market and allow the Phillies to trump him in a does of irony. It's not about making the playoffs, it's about winning it and planning beyond this year. Both can be done, but not if Theo fails to admit and adjust from the Crawford ball and chain move.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]
    It's pretty clear that Theo put his money on Crawford, literally, and now, for better or worse, will ultimately have to move Ellsbury in order to pay for the contracts now on the books and ones coming up if he wants to retain players. Or maybe Theo has figured a way out. I admit to not following all the financial angles and legalities. ( An old teammate said, "I'm bored reading about money and MRI's."  Here, here. ) But right now, the best guess is that Boras puts Ellsbury on the market in two years -- if Ellsbury continues to star -- and Theo won't be able to afford him, as you say. What may apply here is the old saying, "You pays your money and you takes your choice." 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: sox aquire aviles from kc

    I made a call on Navarro a couple of years ago, and got flack for it almost universally. He has not given us much reason to expect him to succeed at the mlb level and it seemed pretty obvious to me what the Sox were grooming him for. The guy was projected to be a sub at best but a lot of people, yes...a LOT of people here, had him penciled in as possibly next year's SS. Is it my fault so many people here didn't see the obvious? This might have been one of the simplest projections I've seen coming up from the minors in years. Navarro was not our guy. He was a dead man walking for a while. We built as much value for him as we could and we moved him. Sorry. That's how it works.

    That's not BS. That is how it went down. Don't blame me. And It's not having it both ways to wish the best for him but project him to not make it. I don't know him but his story is compelling. I've hired quite a few people over the years who I wanted to help but didn't expect to succeed. I hired someone over the phone a few months ago just because she was chronically unemployed and I wanted to help someone who was chronically unemployed. I had a simple job for someone, felt anyone could do it, and made the decision to help someone who hadn't had a job for a couple of years. That didn't mean I projected them to storm up the management chain. I tried to help someone. I hoped for the best but wasn't stupid about it. I gave her every opportunity to succeed, and wish her the best. 

    I hope I'm wrong on Navarro but it seems pretty clear that the Redsox bailed, given more info about him than I certainly had. Things can change and he can still become a good player. It's just not likely to happen. He had a sincere chance. He just hasn't made it yet. He will get other chances.
     
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    In Response to Re: sox aquire aviles from kc:
    [QUOTE]I made a call on Navarro a couple of years ago, and got flack for it almost universally. He has not given us much reason to expect him to succeed at the mlb level and it seemed pretty obvious to me what the Sox were grooming him for. The guy was projected to be a sub at best but a lot of people, yes...a LOT of people here, had him penciled in as possibly next year's SS. Is it my fault so many people here didn't see the obvious? This might have been one of the simplest projections I've seen coming up from the minors in years. Navarro was not our guy. He was a dead man walking for a while. We built as much value for him as we could and we moved him. Sorry. That's how it works. That's not BS. That is how it went down. Don't blame me. And It's not having it both ways to wish the best for him but project him to not make it. I don't know him but his story is compelling. I've hired quite a few people over the years who I wanted to help but didn't expect to succeed. I hired someone over the phone a few months ago just because she was chronically unemployed and I wanted to help someone who was chronically unemployed. I had a simple job for someone, felt anyone could do it, and made the decision to help someone who hadn't had a job for a couple of years. That didn't mean I projected them to storm up the management chain. I tried to help someone. I hoped for the best but wasn't stupid about it. I gave her every opportunity to succeed, and wish her the best.  I hope I'm wrong on Navarro but it seems pretty clear that the Redsox bailed, given more info about him than I certainly had. Things can change and he can still become a good player. It's just not likely to happen. He had a sincere chance. He just hasn't made it yet. He will get other chances.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]
    Name people who had Navarro penciled in at SS for next season. People, including me, said that if Scutaro is let go and Iglesias can't hit, Navarro, IF not traded, should get a "sincere chance" at the job in ST.  He never got that chance at the ML level because the Sox didn't rate him as a ML regular. The club might have been right. But let's not pretend that he ever got a real chance. The club decided that it wasn't worth taking a chance to give him a chance.
    He played well at SS at every level and was hitting well in AAA this season before he got hurt. Then he was brought up to the big club as fodder or fill-in and lastly to be showcased. 
    If you knew two years ago that Navarro was a dud, you knew more than his managers in the bushes. And more than some scouts. That is, more than people who saw him coming along, and thought that he projected to be 

     

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