Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    ... from the viewpoint of a Los Angeles Dodger blogger:


    http://dodgersdigest.com/2014/08/25/dodgers-red-sox-trade-nick-punto-adrian-gonzalez-carl-crawford-josh-beckett/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=dodgers-red-sox-trade-nick-punto-adrian-gonzalez-carl-crawford-josh-beckett" rel="nofollow">http://dodgersdigest.com/2014/08/25/dodgers-red-sox-trade-nick-punto-adrian-gonzalez-carl-crawford-josh-beckett/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=dodgers-red-sox-trade-nick-punto-adrian-gonzalez-carl-crawford-josh-beckett" rel="nofollow">http://dodgersdigest.com/2014/08/25/dodgers-red-sox-trade-nick-punto-adrian-gonzalez-carl-crawford-josh-beckett/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=dodgers-red-sox-trade-nick-punto-adrian-gonzalez-carl-crawford-josh-beckett


    Many credit the trade for giving the Red Sox flexibility that led to the 2014 World Series title, but others may cite the loss of talent as a contributing factor in this season's struggles.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    In response to hill55's comment:

    Many credit the trade for giving the Red Sox flexibility that led to the 2014 World Series title, but others may cite the loss of talent as a contributing factor in this season's struggles.



    2014 WAR

    Gonzo 2.4

    Beckett 2.2

    Crawford 0.8

    I don't think we'd be a whole lot better off with these guys at all.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:


    In response to hill55's comment:



    Many credit the trade for giving the Red Sox flexibility that led to the 2014 World Series title, but others may cite the loss of talent as a contributing factor in this season's struggles.


    Gonzo 2.4, Beckett 2.2, Crawford 0.8


    I don't think we'd be a whole lot better off with these guys at all.


    QUOTE:

    I agree, it was a great move losing these guys and one that put us in a position today to improve that otherwise could have been a real mess.  Crawford was an awful signing and Beckett was cancer in the clubhouse that no team needs.  I hated the fact we let Rizzo go but also liked AGon and fully understand why he was part of the otherwise very sad package.  Theo was going to get AGon if it was the last thing he did and it just about was.



     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    I was happy with the deal at the time as just the most amazing salary dump of all time.  But, at this juncture, shoot, I'd trade Gonzalez straight up for De La Rosa.  The deal was not only good then, it is getting better every day.  Webster looks like he might be journeyman bullpen arm at best, but Rubby is turning into a bona fide mid rotation guy (right now he is that, ceiling higher?).  

    Sure, we can talk about loss of talent and what that meant for 2014 Sox struggles; certainly we could use the Adrian Gonzalez-lite that plays for the Dodgers now.  But Rubby = Beckett more or less (this year, not factoring age or cost or control) and it always a plus to not have Carl Crawford on your roster.  So, I don't know.  Yeah, bad to lose Adrian.  But, I don't think the upgrade from Naps to Gonzalez-lite would have made much of a difference.  So, pure talent wise, its a 2014 relative wash.

         
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    Many credit the trade for giving the Red Sox flexibility that led to the 2014 World Series title, but others may cite the loss of talent as a contributing factor in this season's struggles.



    2014 WAR

    Gonzo 2.4

    Beckett 2.2

    Crawford 0.8

    I don't think we'd be a whole lot better off with these guys at all.



    Gonzo at 1st would be an upgrade over naps the sox plight this year was self inflicted and calculated....they needed to see what they had in the Bradley Bogharts and Middlebrooks. Time will tell but my guess is the retool will be swift and I wouldn't be surprised if they right back in the mix next year

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    Still, the one of the 3 best Sox trade in at least a half century along with the VTek/Lowe and Pedro deals.

    Sox4ever

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    Winning the WS, the LT financial flexibility and losing the negative energy created by Beckett and Crawford was well worth whatever loss the Sox had.


    Wasn't the obviously artificially created crowd noise worth it to the Seahawks in gaining home field adv and winning the NFC title game? And subsequently winning the SB. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    In response to croc's comment:

    Wasn't the obviously artificially created crowd noise worth it to the Seahawks in gaining home field adv and winning the NFC title game? And subsequently winning the SB. 

    What can you tell me about artificial noise? I don't follow football.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    What's left after this year...

    2015: $37.5M ($41.5M - $3.9M Boston payment = $$37.5M)

    2016: $41.75M

    2017: $42.5M

    2018: $21.5M_____

    Total: $143M

     

    AGon  $21M     $21M      $21.5M  $21.5M

    Craw $20.5M  $20.75M  $21M

     

    How we spend this future money may go a long way in how we judge this trade in hindsight.

    Sox4ever

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    Many credit the trade for giving the Red Sox flexibility that led to the 2014 World Series title, but others may cite the loss of talent as a contributing factor in this season's struggle

    I'm not sure how anyone could reasonably come to that conclusion.

    Gonzo and Naps are about equal, but Gonzo gets paid $7M more.

    Crawford basically stinks at this point.

    Beckett was good but is it out for the year.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Many credit the trade for giving the Red Sox flexibility that led to the 2014 World Series title, but others may cite the loss of talent as a contributing factor in this season's struggle

    I'm not sure how anyone could reasonably come to that conclusion.

    Gonzo and Naps are about equal, but Gonzo gets paid $7M more.

    Crawford basically stinks at this point.

    Beckett was good but is it out for the year.

     




    We got Naps, Vic, Dempster, Drew and Uehara for about what AGon, Beckett and Crawford would have cost us in 2013. One could cherry pick and say we were able to pay Papi with the money instead of Dempster.

    Not all these guys did well, but together they did much better than Beckett, AGon and CC did in 2013, and also the club house change was probably essential.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    Gonzo at 1st would be an upgrade over naps the sox plight this year was self inflicted and calculated....they needed to see what they had in the Bradley Bogharts and Middlebrooks. Time will tell but my guess is the retool will be swift and I wouldn't be surprised if they right back in the mix next year




    Is he really?

    Napoli 2014: .261/.383/.439/.822

    Gonzalez 2014: .275/.333/.461/.795

    If we're talking WAR, B-R has Napoli at 3.0 this year, Gonzalez 2.4. If anything, Napoli looks like a slight upgrade over Gonzalez, and as JoeB mentioned, Gonzo makes a heck of a lot more.

    Just a fun bit of trivia...when was the last time AGon had a higher OPS than Napoli in a given season?

    The answer, believe it or not, would be 2010.

     

    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    This thread is garbage. Yes Gonzo would be an upgrade, but what about Crawford at $20M per?

    It wasn't a one or the other deal. They Dodgers had to take both, and Beckett and Punto.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    Rings since trade:

    Red Sox: 1

    Dodgers: 0

    Sox4ever

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    2012 was a truly great trade for the Red Sox which has already been proven with a WS win the next year, 2013, which does not happen with AGon, CC, and Beckett still in Boston.  2014 has been a terrible year, but those can happen and are more than bearable to knowledgeable fans, which are few and far between on this website. 

    The Dodgers success last year and this year is somewhat due to AGon, but certainly not the other two.  Right now CC's OPS is under .700 and Beckett has started 20 games with 9 of them quality starts.  This is his 3d time this year on the DL for a bad hip. 

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    i think its safe to say we won that trade. Agonz has been good, which was expected. Beckett had some good starts for the dodgers this year but has mostly been useless and crawford is just terrible. Webster is looking like a bust and will likely either get dealt or convert to a reliever. Rubby has been the past part for us and looks to be a lock for the rotation next year. The biggest loss in all of this was trading rizzo for gonzalez. A left handed first baseman with 30 home run power would look real good on this team right now. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    2012 was a truly great trade for the Red Sox which has already been proven with a WS win the next year, 2013, which does not happen with AGon, CC, and Beckett still in Boston.  2014 has been a terrible year, but those can happen and are more than bearable to knowledgeable fans, which are few and far between on this website. 

    The Dodgers success last year and this year is somewhat due to AGon, but certainly not the other two.  Right now CC's OPS is under .700 and Beckett has started 20 games with 9 of them quality starts.  This is his 3d time this year on the DL for a bad hip. 

     



    There is definitely a direct correlation between consistent whining and being clueless, and this board definitely proves it, at about a 95% rate. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:

    i think its safe to say we won that trade. Agonz has been good, which was expected. Beckett had some good starts for the dodgers this year but has mostly been useless and crawford is just terrible. Webster is looking like a bust and will likely either get dealt or convert to a reliever. Rubby has been the past part for us and looks to be a lock for the rotation next year. The biggest loss in all of this was trading rizzo for gonzalez. A left handed first baseman with 30 home run power would look real good on this team right now. 




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    Sure, but if you are going back that far, we could pick from losing Rizzo, losing Beltre, and/or losing Martinez as the biggest losses from the original Gonzo deal.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    There is definitely a direct correlation between consistent whining and being clueless, and this board definitely proves it, at about a 95% rate.


    So, is this post part of the 95% whining rate?


    ;)


    Sox4ever

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    In response to moonslav59's comment:


    here is definitely a direct correlation between consistent whining and being clueless, and this board definitely proves it, at about a 95% rate.


    So, is this post part of the 95% whining rate?


    QUOTE:


    Sox4ever


    QUOTE:


    moon,
    I think in this case being included in the 95% of whiners and clueless posters must be a great thing and the correct place to be.  We all know there is a much higher percentage of good creative posters here than the remaining 5% :)





     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    The problem with 2014 is that the 2013 team relied on every ounce of offense they could get, right?  I mean Pedey batting 3rd and Napoli being Ortiz's only protection is not exactly a potent offense.  Then you subtract Ellsbury and Salty and Injurino's number comes up 2 years too soon and instantly you are in trouble.  Then WMB is a bust and JBJ is a FIFTH outfielder being asked to replace a stud.  Then Boggarts takes  a huge step backwards which I would had lost my shirt on.  Our pitching staff would have to be the 1995 Braves to compete with that line up.  Add in Ben actually hurt the staff by relying on Buck and bringing in Mujica and whoola, mystery solved as to why we are the worst team in baseball.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    here is definitely a direct correlation between consistent whining and being clueless, and this board definitely proves it, at about a 95% rate.

     

    So, is this post part of the 95% whining rate?

     

    QUOTE:

     

    Sox4ever

     

    QUOTE:

     

    moon,
    I think in this case being included in the 95% of whiners and clueless posters must be a great thing and the correct place to be.  We all know there is a much higher percentage of good creative posters here than the remaining 5% :)

    I was joking.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    here is definitely a direct correlation between consistent whining and being clueless, and this board definitely proves it, at about a 95% rate.

     

    So, is this post part of the 95% whining rate?

     

    QUOTE:

     

    Sox4ever

     

    QUOTE:

     

    moon,
    I think in this case being included in the 95% of whiners and clueless posters must be a great thing and the correct place to be.  We all know there is a much higher percentage of good creative posters here than the remaining 5% :)

     



     

     



    I'm not sure why you never seem to understand anything I post, but I didn't mean that 95% of all posters are clueless, I meant that 95% of the whiners are clueless.  There are a few posters on here who constantly whine, but they at least back it up once in a while with some facts, and I'm pretty sure Moon knows that he's not a whiner.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox/Dodger trade retrospective

    I'm not sure why you never seem to understand anything I post, but I didn't mean that 95% of all posters are clueless, I meant that 95% of the whiners are clueless. There are a few posters on here who constantly whine, but they at least back it up once in a while with some facts, and I'm pretty sure Moon knows that he's not a whiner.

    I know I twisted your words, and I'm glad you took it as a joke.

    Yes, a very very large percent of the whiners are clueless, hypocritical and a whole lot more.

    Sox4ever

     
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