Sox Going After Beltran

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    Beltran's value to the RS is his versatility, DH or RF, and his defense when healthy. I always chuckle when someone says a player is "versatile" because they can barely play one on-the-field position and DH. Granted, not all players should DH, and some never should, but I mean, how versatile is it really?
    Posted by moonslav59


    When compared to Papi who offer no position flexibiltiy because he and Agaon are both lefthanded hitters that play 1B when where in NL parks Papi is relageted to a pinch hitter and we lose a ton on defense when plays first and Agon sits...So if Beltran is added to the roster to replace Papi. I'd say that he offers more position flexibility in that he can play both corner OF spots and an occasional start in CF.

    Regarding his injury, he had microfracture surgury and spent the better part of 2 years rehabbing and if his medical show that it's sufficiantly healed there's no inherant risk of reinjuring it...Though he'll never be the explosive athlete he was with the Royals...Last year showed that he could endure the rigors of playing everyday and be a productive run producer. That said I wouldn't break the bank to resign him but if he were amenable to a 2 year deal with incentives based on games played and health that would trigger a 3rd year. I'd do that deal...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    I like Dice but let us be honest, if he had been a FA after 3 years of pitching with say Baltimore, and had the same results, Boston would never have touched him.

    Let us just hope he comes back next August just in the nick of time to help us win the division.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    During last season, I watched a lot of the late games on MLB .
    In the Giant games, Beltran seemed very able to cover the massive RF in SanFrancisco.
    Some are making it look like he's Vlad Guerrero. Beltran is still pretty mobile.
    I'd rather see Beltran for 135 games than Reddick for 164 games.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyCBoston. Show DeweyCBoston's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    He played in 142 games last year between NY and San Francisco.He hit .300,had 39 doubles,6 triples,84 RBIs and 22 HR's.His HR total was probably affected a little by playing roughly a third of his games in the cavernous Citi Field.   His OBP was .385 and slugging .525.Pretty decent numbers all around
    Posted by mrmojo1120


    Beltran will fit in well, hard to imagine how the Sox got overloaded with lefties last season, but Beltran will help alot! GO BEN, smooth move.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyCBoston. Show DeweyCBoston's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    Still regret the Victor Martinez mistake (letting him go!)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheRedStain. Show TheRedStain's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    "Still regret the Victor Martinez mistake (letting him go!)"      

    It wasn't a mistake at all. The Saux already had Ortiz to DH. They were going to get A-gon one way or another to play first. It was determined that V-Mart was not going to be a full-time catcher - which has quickly come to pass in Detroit. It wasn't about money, it was about who Boston wanted to catch and who they wanted to DH. They wanted Salty to catch - they had been after him for years. Victor was an average positional player but a decent DH and back-up first baseman and catcher. They had Youk to back-up first base and Tek to back up catcher. There was not a good fit for a high-priced back-up at three positions that were all covered already. Fate is usually proven right if we know how to understand the situation correctly.                          
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    "Still regret the Victor Martinez mistake (letting him go!)"       It wasn't a mistake at all. The Saux already had Ortiz to DH. They were going to get A-gon one way or another to play first. It was determined that V-Mart was not going to be a full-time catcher - which has quickly come to pass in Detroit. It wasn't about money, it was about who Boston wanted to catch and who they wanted to DH. They wanted Salty to catch - they had been after him for years. Victor was an average positional player but a decent DH and back-up first baseman and catcher. They had Youk to back-up first base and Tek to back up catcher. There was not a good fit for a high-priced back-up at three positions that were all covered already. Fate is usually proven right if we know how to understand the situation correctly.                          
    Posted by TheRedStain


    Many here refuse to consider this context when lamenting the letting go of Martinez.  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran : Many here refuse to consider this context when lamenting the letting go of Martinez.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    The Red Sox won exactly 0 play-off games during the Vmart era, I lament trading Masterson to get Vmart.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    Yaz, old friend: As a RHB, he will put some dings in the wall.  We need that from the right side. Nice perk:  Beltran's chasing down flies in Fenway's RF will be full of suspense and mystery. Who doesn't like those elements in their entertainment, I tell ya! Can acknowledge that we need to get younger anf faster, but for a year or two, Beltran may be  - dare I say it? - a bridge (Ouch! Stop hitting me!) to a more permanent RF solution. Tho moon has a point:  If he will be on the DL more often than not, then why not re-sign Drew and skip Beltran?  Drew would be cheaper and just as productive. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I know that, at some point, you are what your record says you are, and this is why we hesitate on Beltran.  Still, I kind of favor a one-year contract ($10-12 mil tops) with a one-year player option, w/ low buy-out.  Reasons?  My gut, which has been wrong at times, tells me that Beltran can be another Bobby Abreu, which is to say:  I think that, despite the chatter about his age, his legs, his eyesight, his attitude, Beltran can find a way to come back next year (and maybe the year after that) and light up the scoreboard and not embarrass himself in the OF. Bill James cannot corroborate these conclusions. Perfectly willing to take heat for this. And if we get a year out of him like the year we got out of Beltre, everyone will be happy - and forget all the nasty things about him that were said on this forum, and maybe forget about all the money he was paid. But i digress.  
    Posted by summerof67


    Good post, Summer ... I think the three telling words you included are the crux of the matter.

    I, unlike Burrito, didn't want him last season because I thought the bus was too broken down.  But just MAYBE he found a way to get his wheels back on the road.

    MAYBE he would like Boston, but after a few months in the laid back wine country, he would have trouble with a whole season in our whine country.

    He started cold as ice in SF ... imagine what would be done here if he did that.  He warmed up extremely well, but that initial chill would have gotten the treatment from some of us ...

    MAYBE he would play in the AL.  Already said he didn't want to.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    "Still regret the Victor Martinez mistake (letting him go!)"       It wasn't a mistake at all. The Saux already had Ortiz to DH. They were going to get A-gon one way or another to play first. It was determined that V-Mart was not going to be a full-time catcher - which has quickly come to pass in Detroit. It wasn't about money, it was about who Boston wanted to catch and who they wanted to DH. They wanted Salty to catch - they had been after him for years. Victor was an average positional player but a decent DH and back-up first baseman and catcher. They had Youk to back-up first base and Tek to back up catcher. There was not a good fit for a high-priced back-up at three positions that were all covered already. Fate is usually proven right if we know how to understand the situation correctly.                          
    Posted by TheRedStain


    Well put.

    There is another factor.  It maybe a lesser one, but he clearly relished the opportunity to play with some of his fellow countymen.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran : The Red Sox won exactly 0 play-off games during the Vmart era, I lament trading Masterson to get Vmart.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    Yeah, I hear that TMAC.  valid.  I don't personally agree, as, they had to do something that summer, or they wouldn't have even made the playoffs (conjecture).  V-Mart was the right guy at that time.  Yes, the cost of Masterson was high, but you've got to give to get.  I don't think it is fair to put the lack of playoff wins in V-Mart's tenure on his shoulders.  He performed quite well as a Red Stocking.  09 was about depletion of pitching (isn't that the common denominator of all playoff sputters?) and 2010 was star-crossed with injury.  And, if you look back to that summer, Masterson was no longer a sure thing.  It certainly seemed like his destiny had become solid bullpen/good egg.  That could have been lack of opportunity in Boston.  But, I don't remember very much Masterson-Too-High-A-Price talk at the time of the trade, in the press, here, or otherwise.  Easy to say it was too high, of course, with the benfit of hindsight though.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    Red Sox need Kemp (1 year plus extension term) more than Ellsbury (2 year plus extension term). Ellsbury for one year most certainly is not worth 2 truly top MLB ranked prospects.

    This is a pre-sale/ PR move by the post US/CA economy collapse Dodgers. At this point, they have no intention of closing any long term extension offer that Kemp's agent would sign off on. There is no way any 10 year 250M deal will be offered. That it total nonsense.

    Dodgers are rebuilding and need nothing more than a current higher profile attraction to sell tickets and stablelize ratings.

    Fact is that Ellsbury (as worshiped as he is (for one year) by most Red Sox and pink hat fans), is a better fit for Dodgers. Kemp, despite his de facto disconect from most New England Red Sox fans, is a perfect fit for the Red Sox or the Yankees. If Kemp is not extended by new Dodgers buyer or via trade to another team, he will end up with the Yankees. No way will the Red Sox outbid the Yankees for Kemp.

    Names like Beltran are incompetent moves, compounding Crawford contract debacle from InEpstein.

    Ellsbury is, for this one winter only, for any competent GM, is an automatic ticket to obtain Kemp. One or two additional Red Sox blocked prospects (could be widened to include a 3rd team on Dodgers prospect interests and could allow for Red Sox to get back one or two mid to lower rated prospects that they might like/more years away) will close the contingency players trade agreement. The Kemp extension window negotiations for Red Sox should be timed to be executed a day after new CBA capture date, and offers sequenced like this:

    Post 2012 Arbitration Offer 1: 2013 to 2019 7 years x Base 21.5 = $150.5M

    Offer 1 would make Kemp highest paid active MLB OFer, annual and total contract

    Post 2012 Arbitration Offer 2: 2013 to 2018 6 years x Base 25.5 = $153M

    Offer 2 would make Kemp highest base/annual paid OF'er in MLB history and 3rd highest annual MLB player base in MLB history

    Post 2012 Arbitration Final Offer: 2013 to 2019 8 years x Base 20.125 = $161M

    Final offer would make Kemp highest paid OF'er contract in MLB history

    Kemp and Crawford 2012 cost 33-36M (No RF dumpster OF cost)
    Ellsbury & Crawford 2012 cost 36.5M-38M (RH dumpster OF needed 1.5M to 7M)


    Kemp and Crawford 2013 and on annually cost 41M to 46M
    Ellsbury and Crawford 2013 cost 33.5-41M (RH dumpster OF needed 1.5 to 7M)

    Ellsbury and Crawford 2014 and on annually cost

    Note: 2011 OF cost 45M (21.5M off OF books 2012)

    Note: Kemp would prefer to stay in LA for obvious reasons with racial makeup and prejudices of respective fanbase, but will follow AGon if extended as set forth above (Yankees, on open market would bid up to about 8 years & 22.5M, no higher because Red Sox would fold early if Kemp is on open market, see my Tex comments in 2008. Kemp will not risk a year of athletic stresses chasing another gross 2.5M a year before his net post agent commission, taxes and would agree to one of the 3 sequenced offered extensions)

    Note: Yankees cannot compete in Kemp winter trade market with Red Sox including Ellsbury 2 years of arbitration net zero or plus or plus-plus

    InEpstein set the OF disaster up, boxing in correct counter correction move. Ellsbury high arbitration cost increase is not worth expense increase plus passing on golden trade value windfall.

    Note: If Cherry is truly chasing Beltran, he is truly as inept as his predecessor. He needs to ignore current Red Sox fan sentiment and offer blockbuster trade deal for Kemp. Much easier to extend a player 2 years from arbitration than 1 year, but Dodgers don't have to extend Ellsbury and can get 2 years at much lower cost than Kemp and also obtain one or two prospects that are no more than 2 years away from likely decent MLB careers. In addition, depending upon new CBA, Dodgers could also elect to take the draft pick compensation for Ellsbury if he does not measure up to big long term contract.

    1. This deal should be done, works well for both teams situations

    2. Because of InEpstein fiasco, unlikely that Cherry has the confidence to get a FA big contract gun shy Luchino, Henry and Werner to agree to it.

    3. Ellsbury trade value will decline due to yearly clock and inflated one year numbers due to Pedroia big year and AGon addition affect, and Red Sox will end up stuck with an improved but not improved enough to trade Crawford contract and 16 to 20M spent on sending Ellsbury to FA where the Red Sox will not extend him or sign him as a FA

    4. If CHerry screws this obvious one up (Kemp could be replaced by other similar profile like J. Upton but unlikely fit and value), my confidence will go to zero in Cherry

    5. Pitching market is not there for top end proven MLB pitchers for value, so this is the most obvious move to improve the Red Sox from 2011 debacle.

    6. Agon and Kemp would be a NYY and other MLB teams nightmare for a long, long time, home and away (it is obvious, given what Red Sox have on and soon coming off near term books)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    "Still regret the Victor Martinez mistake (letting him go!)"       It wasn't a mistake at all. The Saux already had Ortiz to DH. They were going to get A-gon one way or another to play first. It was determined that V-Mart was not going to be a full-time catcher - which has quickly come to pass in Detroit. It wasn't about money, it was about who Boston wanted to catch and who they wanted to DH. They wanted Salty to catch - they had been after him for years. Victor was an average positional player but a decent DH and back-up first baseman and catcher. They had Youk to back-up first base and Tek to back up catcher. There was not a good fit for a high-priced back-up at three positions that were all covered already. Fate is usually proven right if we know how to understand the situation correctly.                          
    Posted by TheRedStain



    Spot on.  I'd have been okay with re-signing him, but the fact that no one signed him to catch should've been a dead giveaway that his catching days were over.  I'm not in favor of re-signing Papi, and he is a much better DH than VMart.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    During last season, I watched a lot of the late games on MLB . In the Giant games, Beltran seemed very able to cover the massive RF in SanFrancisco. Some are making it look like he's Vlad Guerrero. Beltran is still pretty mobile. I'd rather see Beltran for 135 games than Reddick for 164 games.
    Posted by GhostofTito


    I think the legend of Beltran's demise has been overdone.

    He had a mis-dianosed knee injury that basically ended his 2009 saeson and the start of the 2010 season.  Even with that injury, he's averaged 136 games since 2001, and had a minimum of 140 games in each of those seasons, except for the injury.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran : I think the legend of Beltran's demise has been overdone. He had a mis-dianosed knee injury that basically ended his 2009 saeson and the start of the 2010 season.  Even with that injury, he's averaged 136 games since 2001, and had a minimum of 140 games in each of those seasons, except for the injury.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    Maybe so, but I'd much rather have Buerhle than Beltran.  Or Papelbon over Beltran...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran : I think the legend of Beltran's demise has been overdone. He had a mis-dianosed knee injury that basically ended his 2009 saeson and the start of the 2010 season.  Even with that injury, he's averaged 136 games since 2001, and had a minimum of 140 games in each of those seasons, except for the injury.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    Games since 2006...

           Beltran   Drew 
    '06    140         146
    '07    144         140
    '08    161         109
    '09       81        137
    '10       64        139
    '11     142          81
    Total  732       752

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran : I think the legend of Beltran's demise has been overdone. He had a mis-dianosed knee injury that basically ended his 2009 saeson and the start of the 2010 season.  Even with that injury, he's averaged 136 games since 2001, and had a minimum of 140 games in each of those seasons, except for the injury.
    Posted by Joebreidey



    I agree, and I noted these and other reasons it was great idea to aquire Carlos last summer... as far as signing him to a 2+ year deal now I am not hoping for that... age being the factor.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran : I think the legend of Beltran's demise has been overdone. He had a mis-dianosed knee injury that basically ended his 2009 saeson and the start of the 2010 season.  Even with that injury, he's averaged 136 games since 2001, and had a minimum of 140 games in each of those seasons, except for the injury.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    A lot of players would play more games per year if we ignored the injuries...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran:
    In Response to Re: Sox Going After Beltran : Maybe so, but I'd much rather have Buerhle than Beltran.  Or Papelbon over Beltran...
    Posted by notin


    Word is Buerhle wants to stick close to home. I doubt he plays in Boston.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Sox Going After Beltran

    I don't know why they can't just get Shane Victorino and put him in RF.  If they're going to get Beltran, they might as well keep Drew. No one plays RF in Fenway like Drew does, and, again, run prevention is very similar to creating runs.
     
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