Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    just to raise Softlaws ire you should start a thread: Tampa not going away in 2012.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    2011 would be even better, but I "Iggy'd" the clown, so what's the use?

    Yes, they traded Garza "when they did not have to", but they knew they had some fresh arms to take his place:
    Hellickson  12-10  2.90  1.132
    A. Cobb          3-2   3.42  1.329

    Garza in 2010 was: 15-10  3.91  1.251

    TB got these guys in return:
    Robinson Chirinos, Sam Fuld, Brandon Guyer, Chris Archer, and Hak-Ju-Lee. Several of these guys are near the top of the team's prospect list. TB's prosect list is rated very highly in MLB.

    Plus, Garza has not donethat well with the Cubs this year:
      8-10  3.52  1.313 WHIP

    This is my point. Even seemingly bad deals or big FA losses seem to mostly turn out well for TB recently.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    I probably should double check who they got for Garza, though I am of the opinion you keep Garza and trade him mid-season after 2 things:

    You identify your own needs...

    Get the most you can for him as contenders will overpay.

    having just looked:  "a bunch of prsopspects" that is the one thing they are not short of. Sounds criminal to me.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Think of it this way: with a limited budget, they saved about $5M by trading Garza, so in a sense, they replaced Garza with 2 guys who did just as good as he did in 2010 or 2011, got 5 young players of which 2-3  will almost certainly make an impact, and were able to sign Johnny Damon who blows Willy Aybar's2010 DH numbers away!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    If Manny somehow could have performed at 25hr, 85+rbi, and decent obp it might have been a diffrence maker. I guess he really was finished.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Garza: 8 - 10  3.52 ERA  1.313 WHIP in the retirement league.
    Was replaced at low cost.

    Manny could no longer play the game straight.
    Reminds me of some posters...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]If Manny somehow could have performed at 25hr, 85+rbi, and decent obp it might have been a diffrence maker. I guess he really was finished.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Having Manny playing for Tampa Bay definitely could have helped them this year. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    only if he had anything left.... but he proved he was mentally finished anyhow. 
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    As it turned out, they saved Manny's money and got pretty good production from Fuld and Joyce to the point where Damon was not needed in the OF and Zobrist was allowed to move to 2B.

    What hurt TB this year was lack of bullpen depth, less timely hitting than 2010, and a poor start like the Sox.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    When you consistentently have top picks in the top 100 each year you are bound to get more jems. Since 2001 the Rays have had 45 top 100 picks. During the same time frame they have had 9 top 10 picks of which 7 were top 5 picks. During that time frame the Sox never had a single top 10 pick. IMO the Rays just drafted from a better position than the Sox.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    promise, nice research. The Rays have consistently had lots of picks for many years, so the pipeline between the minors and majors is always active. This year Hellickson Jennings, and Cobb have been a big help. Next year, there likely will be more.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Thanks, Promise4you!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    I'm with Promise - the Rays are reaping the rewards of being very bad for many years.  Price was a #1 pick, Niemann a #4.  A year-in, year-out successful franchise will never get a top ten draft choice, but the Sox have done pretty well for themselves regardless when it comes to player development.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]I'm with Promise - the Rays are reaping the rewards of being very bad for many years.  Price was a #1 pick, Niemann a #4.  A year-in, year-out successful franchise will never get a top ten draft choice, but the Sox have done pretty well for themselves regardless when it comes to player development.  
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]
    Amen my friend, let TB draft from our position year in year out and where will they be?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]I'm with Promise - the Rays are reaping the rewards of being very bad for many years.  Price was a #1 pick, Niemann a #4.  A year-in, year-out successful franchise will never get a top ten draft choice, but the Sox have done pretty well for themselves regardless when it comes to player development.  
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Yes, they have!

    2 main reasons besides good scouting and shrewd leadership:

    1) The Sox usually have multi late round or sandwich picks due to losing FAs.
    2) The Sox have the resources ($$$) to sign  players that other teams don't draft earlier because they can't afford to sign them.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation : Amen my friend, let TB draft from our position year in year out and where will they be?
    Posted by promise4you[/QUOTE]
    Shields was a 16th round pick, Hellickson 4th round, and Davis 3rd round.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goofywocky. Show Goofywocky's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Not only are the devil dawgs managed better, their 2011 team payroll is less than $ 42 mil...that less than 1/2 of the lackey contract.  Theo is an embarrassment.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goofywocky. Show Goofywocky's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    the devil dawg pays jonnie demon gthe most money @ over $ 5 mil.  he serves as a spy on how both the spankee and red sock operate
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]When you consistentently have top picks in the top 100 each year you are bound to get more jems. Since 2001 the Rays have had 45 top 100 picks. During the same time frame they have had 9 top 10 picks of which 7 were top 5 picks. During that time frame the Sox never had a single top 10 pick. IMO the Rays just drafted from a better position than the Sox.
    Posted by promise4you[/QUOTE]

    Read this post, Goofy.
    It says it all about why the Rays are where they are.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    The Rays have gotten many good picks due to departing FAs.  They weren't all from finishing low for several years. Look at all the picks they got this year. A record amount. Did they finish last last year?

    Here's a look at TB's starter numbers of late:

    (IP-H-ER-BB)

    Shields:
    8.1-7-1-3
    9-4-1-2
    8-4-0-1
    9-7-1-1

    Price:
    6-8-2-2
    7-4-3-3
    7-3-0-2
    8-6-2-2
    8-3-0-3
    8-6-1-2

    Hellickson:
    6-5-3-3
    9-4-1-0
    6-6-2-4
    7-6-2-1
    8-6-0-1

    W. Davis:
    9-6-2-0
    6.2-5-3-4
    4.1-9-6-3
    9-4-2-3
    7-7-1-2

    Niemann has had a rough 4 straight games, but before that he let up these ERs since coming back late June:
    2, 1, 4, 0, 2, 0, 1, 1, 5, 0
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    This year, TB had 10 picks in the top 60!
    They also had 12 in the top 89!

    2010:
    6 of the top 98 picks.

    2009:
    3 of the top 108 picks.

    2008:
    4 of the top 113 picks.

    2007:
    3 of the top 95 picks.
    #1 David Price .
    Matthew Moore #245.

    2006:
    4 of the top 109.
    #3 Evan Longoria
    #109 Alex Cobb
    #289 Desmond Jennings

    2005:
    4 of the top 118.
    #118 Jeremy Hellickson

    2004:
    4 of top 105.
    #4 Jeff Niemann
    #45 Reid Brignac
    #75 Wade Davis
    #135 Jake McGee
    #375 Andy Sonnanstine

    2003:
    4 of top 98.
    #1 Delmon Young
    (#68 Andrew Miller: Not signed)
    #338 John Jaso

    2002:
    4 of top 104.
    #2 BJ Upton

    2000: #466 James Shields.
    1999: #1 Josh Hamilton and  #52 Carl Crawford
    1998: #162 Aubrey Huff.

    Some major trades of late:
    TB got Matt Joyce (.280/.352/.493/.845) for Edwin Jackson winter '08.
    TB got Ben Zobrist (.818 OPS/.948 in 2009/.844 in 2008) for Aubrey Huff.
    TB got Fuld, Chirinos, Guyer, Hak-Ju Lee, and Chris Archer for Garza ('11).
    TB got Sean Rodriguez, Matt Sweeney, and Alex Torres for Kazmir ('11) 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Ya know, Moon, I originally had them at 86-87 wins. But after reading UR posts, you convinced me that they did in fact replace most of what they lost. I upped the projection to 90-91 wins a couple of months back.

    It'll likely fall somewhere in between.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Where were you a month ago to tell us how bad the Sox were. You guys come out of the woodwork on days like this. You will slither back under the floorboards when the ring is brought back to Boston this fall.
     
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