Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Where's Waldo....errr... I mean softclown?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Ya know, I saw JCJCJC from the home page.
    I think he got axed but is currently in no man's land.
    Must be exasperating: all that Wake disdain and nobody to adddress it!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Sox draft history :


    http://www.thebaseballcube.com/draft/teamsDraft.asp?T=5
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    JCJCJC could be Jerry Callahan from WEEI.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Only the last 2 years has TB stockpiled draft picks. Before that they never had extra picks, in fact they lost some earlier in the decade by signing FAs.

    They do have a few players picked high in the draft on this roster:
    Price (1), Longoria (3), Neimann (4), and Upton (2), but seriously, this team has been built beyond top picks due to poor prior year records. They scored some good players late in the draft, and have made some key trades to bring some young talent there.

    Again...

    This year, TB had 10 picks in the top 60!
    They also had 12 in the top 89!

    2010:
    6 of the top 98 picks.

    2009:
    3 of the top 108 picks.

    2008:
    4 of the top 113 picks.

    2007:
    3 of the top 95 picks.
    #1 David Price .
    Matthew Moore #245.

    2006:
    4 of the top 109.
    #3 Evan Longoria
    #109 Alex Cobb
    #289 Desmond Jennings

    2005:
    4 of the top 118.
    #118 Jeremy Hellickson

    2004:
    4 of top 105.
    #4 Jeff Niemann
    #45 Reid Brignac
    #75 Wade Davis
    #135 Jake McGee
    #375 Andy Sonnanstine

    2003:
    4 of top 98.
    #1 Delmon Young
    (#68 Andrew Miller: Not signed)
    #338 John Jaso

    2002:
    4 of top 104.
    #2 BJ Upton

    2000: #466 James Shields.
    1999: #1 Josh Hamilton and 
    #52 Carl Crawford
    1998: #162 Aubrey Huff.

    Some major trades of late:
    TB got Matt Joyce (.280/.352/.493/.845) for Edwin Jackson winter '08.
    TB got Ben Zobrist (.818 OPS/.948 in 2009/.844 in 2008) for Aubrey Huff.
    TB got Fuld, Chirinos, Guyer, Hak-Ju Lee, and Chris Archer for Garza ('11).
    TB got Sean Rodriguez, Matt Sweeney, and Alex Torres for Kazmir ('11) 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Plus Tampa traded alot of high soon to be free agents  players and got alot in return such as trading Garza, Kazmir, etc where they can keep rebuilding their farm system.  

    How can Boston do it, just draft players, and continue to give away minor leaguers every year.  

    When is your last time you saw Tampa giving up six minor leaguers for a talent major league ready player such as A-Gonz, Pujols or etc.  

    so therefore, they will alway be loaded with minor league talents!!


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    The Rays have a lot to be proud of, but without their top 10 picks they could never contend.   Think about it - take Niemann and Price out of the rotation, and Upton and Longoria out of the lineup, and what do you have?  Also, take away Garza because Young was the key piece in acquiring him.  The team that is left is battling the Orioles for last place.  I'm not sure s*cking for a decade is a more noble way to fill the void than acquiring free agents.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]Why can't the Sox develop starting pitchers as well as the Rays?  in the past four years we've come up with two -- Lester and Buch -- while the Rays have brought up -- what? -- six or seven top starting pitchers? Their rotation costs a lot less than ours, and it puts ours to shame. I'm curious -- why?  Do they have better evaluators?
    Posted by Ergoetal[/QUOTE]They have drafted higher and did so for a lot of years. They still get more compensatory picks than the RS. For all everybody focuses on what big budget teams can do, the draft is an equalizer as is revenue sharing that allows more teams to lock up their players through the arbitration years now. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Why is it so hard to say that TBR has some good players and a very good, if somewhat abrasive, manager?

    And that BOS has a team that peaked too soon, and needs to peak again?

    And how hard is it to give NYY some credit for avoiding prolonged slumps, in spite of a flawed lineup and some questionable starters?  Could be their manager and bench coach deserve credit, too.

    If it weren't for that dang 2-12 start - if only BOS had played .500 ball and gone 7-7 - we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    As for Tito, he has been doin’ what comes naturally and, two WS titles later, seems disinclined to change his ways.  Can't blame him.


    Although today the general health and conditioning of the team has me more concerned than anything else.  Youk’s hip, Buch’s back. 


     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation


    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation : They have drafted higher and did so for a lot of years. They still get more compensatory picks than the RS. For all everybody focuses on what big budget teams can do, the draft is an equalizer as is revenue sharing that allows more teams to lock up their players through the arbitration years now. 
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    great to see you back 5 katz

    but I can't agree 100 % with this

    I'm under the impression that big market teams

    over slotting / paying  theses draft choices is a growing problem
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation : great to see you back 5 katz but I can't agree 100 % with this I'm under the impression that big market teams over slotting / paying  theses draft choices is a growing problem
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE] Over slotting to a large extent has become the owners latest whine fest. one look at what the Nationals and Pirates spent this year or a few other teams have and the fact that kids are going over slot isn't holding back teams regardless of their market position.

    But some good talent is left on the table and big market teams are willing to pay over slot to get it. Nobody probably has been more aggressive in that regard than Boston but NYY aren't far behind. But teams aren't leaving the very best on the table.

    At some point the escalation in what prospect are getting paid to sign pro contracts will be problematic but it isn't so much a competitive balance issue as it is an over all business issue for MLB. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    The draft picks based on last year's standings is apparently doing what it was intended to do for the most part.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation : Over slotting to a large extent has become the owners latest whine fest. one look at what the Nationals and Pirates spent this year or a few other teams have and the fact that kids are going over slot isn't holding back teams regardless of their market position. But some good talent is left on the table and big market teams are willing to pay over slot to get it. Nobody probably has been more aggressive in that regard than Boston but NYY aren't far behind. But teams aren't leaving the very best on the table. At some point the escalation in what prospect are getting paid to sign pro contracts will be problematic but it isn't so much a competitive balance issue as it is an over all business issue for MLB. 
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]



    At some point the escalation in what prospect are getting paid to sign pro contracts will be problematic but it isn't so much a competitive balance issue as it is an over all business issue for MLB.



    thanks.........................to be cont......................
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    To be continued after the Pinstripes's next graphic with Ted William's head in a bag.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Tampa Bay Rays call up top pitching prospect Matt Moore

    LHP Matt Moore will be recalled from Triple A Durham and join the team before tonight’s game in Baltimore.


    The top pitching prospect in baseball, Moore is expected to initially work out of the bullpen and will likely be used as a spot starter against the Blue Jays when the Rays return from this road trip.


    Moore split his season between Double A Montgomery and Durham. He was 12-3 overall with a 1.92 ERA, 210 strikeouts and 46 walks in 155 innings. Those totals include a 4-0 record with a 1.37 ERA with 79 strikeouts and 18 walks in 52 2/3 innings with the Bulls.


    He was runner-up for Baseball America’s Minor League Player of the Year.

    Moore, with a fastball clocked in the high 90-mph range, joins the Rays today in Baltimore as the bullpen is shorthanded with closer Kyle Farnsworth sidelined by elbow tenderness.


    The team will have to see how Moore handles the transition to the bullpen, and if it goes well, he could play a key role as LHP David Price did in 2008. A similar move last year with RHP Jeremy Hellickson didn't work as well. LHP Alex Torres, another prospect, is also expected to be called up this week.

    http://www.tampabay.com/sports...icle1191098.ece

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]Plus Tampa traded alot of high soon to be free agents  players and got alot in return such as trading Garza, Kazmir, etc where they can keep rebuilding their farm system.   How can Boston do it, just draft players, and continue to give away minor leaguers every year.   When is your last time you saw Tampa giving up six minor leaguers for a talent major league ready player such as A-Gonz, Pujols or etc.   so therefore, they will alway be loaded with minor league talents!!
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]

    We could do it too, but Theo would be roasted alive if he traded a
     "FA to be" in the middle of a pennant race.

    TB got a lot of flack for trading Kazmir and Garza, but when you look at how those two have done, it seems (in hindsight) like they did great, especially when you see how well those two guys were replaced. The Bartlett deal was iffy at best. Having Zobrist at 2B and Rodriguez at SS may compare well with a Bartlett (SS) and Rodriguez (2B) keystone combo, but keeping Bartlett seems to have been the better option in my opinion.

    TB does not have anyone really important becoming a FA this winter, so it will be interesting to see if they don't trade anyone away this winter and go for broke next year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]The Rays have a lot to be proud of, but without their top 10 picks they could never contend.   Think about it - take Niemann and Price out of the rotation, and Upton and Longoria out of the lineup, and what do you have?  Also, take away Garza because Young was the key piece in acquiring him.  The team that is left is battling the Orioles for last place.  I'm not sure s*cking for a decade is a more noble way to fill the void than acquiring free agents.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    No doubt those players are big parts of this team, and it's highly doubtful that TB could have found anyone close to  their level of skill had they drafted mid 10's or bottom 10's in the first round. Finishing at or near the bottom did help them, but they still made the picks. Look how many perennial horrible teams never get guys like Price, Longoria, Niemann, Upton, and Young. The Rays also got higher 2nd and 3rd round picks than most back then. The confluence of circumstances has favored TB. They were bad for years and got some great foundation players that have all come up and helped bigtime. They lost FAs and got picks in return. They traded others before becoming FAs "just in time" and got plenty of kids that look like fine prospects or are already on the team now and helping. Joyce could really turn into a fine player. Theyt called up Jennings this year and put Hellickson in the rotation: both look great in small sample sizes. Alex Cobb was called up early and did fine. This kid Moore could be up next year, as well as others. The 10-12 picks this year won't make a difference for 2-4 years, but  the team's short=term and long-term outloook looks solid.

    Now, if only their fans would realize it and show some report. To me, they don't deserve a team like this. TB should move to NC- a hotbed of baseball that would support a MLB team. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]Tampa Bay Rays call up top pitching prospect Matt Moore LHP Matt Moore will be recalled from Triple A Durham and join the team before tonight’s game in Baltimore. The top pitching prospect in baseball, Moore is expected to initially work out of the bullpen and will likely be used as a spot starter against the Blue Jays when the Rays return from this road trip. Moore split his season between Double A Montgomery and Durham. He was 12-3 overall with a 1.92 ERA, 210 strikeouts and 46 walks in 155 innings. Those totals include a 4-0 record with a 1.37 ERA with 79 strikeouts and 18 walks in 52 2/3 innings with the Bulls. He was runner-up for Baseball America’s Minor League Player of the Year. Moore, with a fastball clocked in the high 90-mph range, joins the Rays today in Baltimore as the bullpen is shorthanded with closer  Kyle Farnsworth  sidelined by elbow tenderness. The team will have to see how Moore handles the transition to the bullpen, and if it goes well, he could play a key role as LHP  Da vid Price  did in 2008. A similar move last year with RHP  Jeremy Hellickson  didn't work as well. LHP  Alex  Torre s , another prospect, is also expected to be called up this week. http://www.tampabay.com/sports...icle1191098.ece
    Posted by bald-predictions[/QUOTE]

    They may be rushing this kid, but many experts think this kid is the "real deal". We'll see.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation : We could do it too, but Theo would be roasted alive if he traded a  "FA to be" in the middle of a pennant race. TB got a lot of flack for trading Kazmir and Garza, but when you look at how those two have done, it seems (in hindsight) like they did great, especially when you see how well those two guys were replaced. The Bartlett deal was iffy at best. Having Zobrist at 2B and Rodriguez at SS may compare well with a Bartlett (SS) and Rodriguez (2B) keystone combo, but keeping Bartlett seems to have been the better option in my opinion. TB does not have anyone really important becoming a FA this winter, so it will be interesting to see if they don't trade anyone away this winter and go for broke next year.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Theo may get some lee-way after Nomar/Manny.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]Not only are the devil dawgs managed better, their 2011 team payroll is less than $ 42 mil...that less than 1/2 of the lackey contract.  Theo is an embarrassment.
    Posted by Goofywocky[/QUOTE]

    FWIW, it makes no sense to compare a long-term contract to one year.  It's like saying Philly payroll is less than Teixeira's.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    From 2001-2007, the RS have spent two picks inside the top-40 on pitchers, a #26 and a #28.  For the same time frame, the Rays have spent a #1, #3, #4, #8, and a #38 on pitchers.

    They have spent a considerable amount of top picks on pitching relative to the RS.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    If I wasn't a Red Sox fan for the last 55 years then I most probably be a TB fan. They seem to do everything right and stick to their plan.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]If I wasn't a Red Sox fan for the last 55 years then I most probably be a TB fan. They seem to do everything right and stick to their plan.
    Posted by BeaconHill19[/QUOTE]

    Like the Rays alienating their fan base by living in the cellar for a decade.

    They deserve you. It'd be a perfect fit.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation : Theo may get some lee-way after Nomar/Manny.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, 90% of Sox nation was behind him on the Manny deal. 

    Not many were for the Nomar deal (I was), and if that had gone wrong, Theo might have gotten ridden out of town.

    I was talking more about dealing players for prospects. What if late last July of August (waiver deal), Theo traded Belte or VMart for a bunch of kids? It just won't happen, unless we are out of it.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Sox lose to rays in pitcher evaluation

    Tampa Bay succeeded with no money, no fan support, but smart management and doing things the hard way. I tip my hat to them. Getting top draft picks year after year didn't hurt neither. The man on the street who roots for the underdog would be pleased with Tampa Bay.
     

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