Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    Lackey was the elephant in the dugout, on the field, and probably in the clubhouse. "Let's not get John upset or he might stare us down, jump up and down at an error, throw his glove." Truth be told--how many players would choose to spend time with him for dinner on the road or have his back in  a controversial issue?

    Theo will either clear up the Lackey problem before he leaves or there will be enough questions asked by management of prospective applicants; "What would you do with Lackey and his contract," the person with the answer that appeases management gets the job.
     
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    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    In Response to Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse:
    [QUOTE]By Michael Silverman/Boston Herald S o, because Terry Francona lost the Red Sox [ team stats ] clubhouse, he lost his job. And there you have the plan for solving the team’s culture problem: Replace Francona, and all will be fine. I’m confused. Is the next manager’s beer-chugging policy during games going to be less or more stringent?  The Red Sox’ big three — general manager Theo Epstein , chairman Tom Werner and president Larry Lucchino , minus principal owner John Henry (day-to-day, yacht slip) — were appropriately respectful yesterday about Francona’s contributions during his tenure at Fenway Park . And the more they spoke, it became clear how easy it must have been to place blame on Francona’s slumping shoulders for losing the respect and attention of the players under his charge. Francona made it even easier by blaming himself for not rising to the challenge, but his hasty exit yesterday left the clear impression that the Red Sox were not going to make drastic changes to the actual roster. The new guy is going to clean up the mess that Francona could not because he’s, well, the new guy. As for the players, the Sox brass are keeping their fingers crossed that they somehow become leaders. “Some new leadership,’’ Epstein said about what needs to change. “Certain players we have that are leaders can step up and raise the level of their leadership even more. A new manager is going to be an opportunity for new leadership in the clubhouse, too. I think we could have more accountability down there.’’ If the Red Sox decide to follow up Francona’s exit with a December bonfire at Fenway, fueled by, say, the remaining three years and $45.75 million on John Lackey’s contract, I’d guarantee the 82nd sellout of 2011. It also would become unnecessary to try to make people believe a managerial beheading is all this team needs. If they think that all this team needs is a new manager willing to lean a bit harder on players who stray from a team mantra of being championship-driven, then I fear the message behind this September collapse will have been lost on the decision-makers on Yawkey Way. It is mind-boggling and more than a little sad to discover that so many players in that clubhouse who draw huge paychecks lost sight of why they play for the Red Sox. Instead, they settled into selfish and lazy behavior that carried over to the field (or remained on the training table) and helped produce a miserable 7-20 September. Unless the Red Sox front office and ownership were asleep at the wheel, they had to suspect something was amiss from the very beginning. If the 2-10 start was not the first clue, then the late-season slide had to be the wake-up call that the Red Sox decided to ignore. Did the club believe Francona only lost this team in September, or did it suspect it much earlier and refused to do anything about it because things were going so well in the middle of the season? Were fingers crossed that talent would win the day and the dysfunctional side of the team could be swept under a champagne-soaked rug? Instead, the worst-case scenario developed. The team began to splinter internally, and the cracks showed up on the diamond. And Francona was not able to stop it. I get that. What I don’t get is management’s contention that everything’s going to be fine with some old-fashioned attitude adjustments and a leadership uptick. There are enough players — lazy, driven and otherwise — listening to the bad eggs in that clubhouse and signed to long-term deals that I just don’t see how tossing out the old manager and bringing in a new one gets to the root of the problem. The Red Sox    remain close to being a playoff-caliber team. They still have a ton of talent, but the powers that be need to be as ruthless with their own talent evaluation as they were evaluating Francona. Fire Francona? i understand how it happened Hope the players respond to the new guy? That happens to be wishful thinking.
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    Great article about this.  I can understand why Francona was fired, but am not sure that whoever replaces him will have any different results.  He was the best manager in Red Sox history and will be very difficult to replace.  
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbfrogger. Show cbfrogger's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    It sounds like there was several selfish players in the club house.Lackey is an obvious choice but there seems to be more to it.
    Jackie McMullan pointed at Youkilis....
    people on this forum have suggested Ortiz....
    Who else? Who specifically is drinking in the club house? Who is being lazy and not working?
    Whoever it is...clean it up.....
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSNS14. Show RSNS14's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    You guys blaming Lackey are off base according to multiple team sources and kevin Millar. Lackey, because of his personality seems like an obvious choice but apparantly he's a cool cat in the lockeroom and well liked and respected by everyone. It's already come out that it was the old guard, Beckett, Tek, Lester that were the cancer. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wolfwood. Show wolfwood's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    also fire the freaking trainers guys were out of shape and overweight someone is not doing there job
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    I have stated over and over, just releasing Francona wont change a thing. What needed to happen didn't and never would: the TRUTH. The Truth has yet to emerge. Fans deserve the truth. Francona was the not the problem, but he enabled it to go on. So, in a sense, he became part of the problem instead of the solution.

    The biggest problem: the Sox became the new york yankees over the past several years. I give credit to the Yanks. They are the only team that can buy championships. And I mean that with all due respect. They can buy players and even when they make mistakes, they can overcome them much better than any other team. It is what they do best. The Sox can't and never could and frankly never can.

    But the Sox decided that they could become the Yankees if they just kept spending the money. Well, that has backfired for sure. Only the Yankees can be the Yankees. The Red Sox lost their way. And now Francona is paying the ultimate price for it. 

    The Sox are no longer built from the ground up, but rather from the top down. And they seriously lack a good foundation. And without that foundation, it was only a matter of time before they crumbled. And as I have stated, this is the best thing that could have happened to this organization. Not losing Francona, but falling flat on their faces. Maybe now they will realize how they were successful as an organization in the past. It is was not about buying championships, but rather working hard and developing talent. The blue collar workers: the Pedroias, the Ellsburys, the Youks(when healthy).  The team had chemistry, desire, hunger, fire, energy and guys working as one unit. Now, it is just a bunch of disjointed highly overpayed players.

    I wanted to use athletes in place of the word players, but athletes to me invoke being is shape and caring about the sport they are so lucky to play. The Sox had athletes, who have now just become players. It is too bad, but that is what has happened. They became lazy players that thought they were entitled to the post season off past performances rathering than working hard day in and day out. It is hard to support that as a fan.

    The time has come to rid the clubhouse of these players. AND it does not matter whether they were fan favorities in the past or not, it is time for them to go or retire. It is time to give other athletes a chance at turning this club back into what made the fans so proud. A club that worked hard with athletes that achieved through hard work day in and day out. It is time to make the Sox less corporate. It is time to bring Fenway back. It can't be about the (fake?) sellouts, but more about a team that cares about what the fans think and feel. It is time to put the Sox back on the path that made them enduring by many. It is time to leave the new yankee Red Sox behind, and bring back the gritty, hard working loveable RED SOX.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    Can't wait to see who goes next for the SOX. Rays clobber the Rangers. Could this be their year......
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    Lackey has dragged this team down on and off the field.     The names of the beer drinkers in the clubhouse haven't been revealed but Lackey is absolutely one of them.    Carlos Zambrano may be a hothead but he's all the Sox can hope to get in an even up deal for Lackey.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    If Lackey for Zambrano is the only hope it better get done before Theo goes to the Cubs--I think he's seen all he wants to see of Lackey.

    It would be difficult for me to believe Lackey would be a clubhouse favorite after the way he acted on the field when plays weren't made behind him and when he stared down Francona. Antics like that are difficult for teammates to forget. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    this thread is naive - do you really think a new manager is going to tolerate the fat, lazy, frat-boy behavior of francona?

    no way - and simple conditioning/discipline + sound baseball = playoffs with this present group
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

    Am I the only person who believes talking about what players, who weren't in the game and were never going to be in the game, were doing is ridiculous? If you're playing the blame game, that's a stretch. Why does anyone care what they were doing? They weren't playing. 

    Francona suffered, what seemed to me, more losses of his most important players due to injuries than I've ever heard of over two seasons. I, for one, am sad he's gone. I don't play the blame game, and there's not a single thought in my head that believes the guys on the field weren't trying their best to do their best. It didn't work out. Add to that the Yankees "supposed" collapse against the Rays.

    No one shows up to lose a game, and FTR those who aren't playing have zero impact on the game. How they've managed to spin that, I don't know.

    And Marco Scutaro? Hat's off to you. Besides the great plays on the field, I've always thought that, if given the choice of anyone on the roster coming up in a big situation, including Papi and Gonzalez, I like seeing Scutaro or Pedroia come to the plate. My stats may be off, but that's how I feel.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Sox manager change naive; Hardly addresses cancerous clubhouse

      DICK WILLIAMS IS NOT WALKING THRU THAT DOOR !! I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LEGEND, SAY A CARLTON FISK TYPE !!!!
     
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