Sox need another closer.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It would be reckless to go into 2014 relying on Koji to pitch another 75 straight shutout innings. His 2013 season was possibly one of the best seasons for a relief pitcher ever; the chances that he'll even come close to that again are pretty slim. 

    On the other hand, he Sox wouldn't want to sign a closer who expects to be a closer, since Koji has earned the right to start the season there. What they need is an excellent set-up man who is ready to slide into the closer role if/when Koji falters. I'm skeptical that Junichi is that guy, and I know neither Bailey nor Hanrahan are.

    So where should they go? Bullpens are finicky, and there's a lot of matriculation throughout a season. A player can be stellar one year, and bring a 5.50 ERA the next. A guy can be lights out for two months, and then a strained forearm takes him out the rest of the year. Or the reverse; a guy can flounder along in the 6th inning for 10 innins with a 6.00 ERA, and then suddenly *click* and be lights out the rest of the season.

    So obviously, the Sox want to stock up on low-cost middle relief and see who might emerge. But should there be any big name targets in trade or FA? Are you satisfied with just relying on the prospects? What's a GM to do?

    [/QUOTE]

    Remember they still have Bailey!!  And also Workman could be another candiate to be a closer.  Ben C. have alot of option.   Closer is not the main concern for next season!!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    We have Bailey for this exact reason.  Hanrahan seemed open to the idea of returning to the Sox and we also have Miller coming back as well next year.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    I agree with you 100% in that we need to think about the back end of the BP but I really think it's super important first to look at in-house candidates.  Let's call a spade a spade....While Ben has been great with his signings and the HUGE trade that cleared space....his track record in trading for relievers is less than stellar.

    I would really like to see RDLR get a look at the BP for next year.  The guy throws serious gas with a lot of movement....if he can harness the control in a bit I think we could be looking at our future closer.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    Bailey will probably be nontendered. We could sign Mujica, but one estimate had him at $7M x 3. Other FAs?  Balfour or Benoit?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree with you 100% in that we need to think about the back end of the BP but I really think it's super important first to look at in-house candidates.  Let's call a spade a spade....While Ben has been great with his signings and the HUGE trade that cleared space....his track record in trading for relievers is less than stellar.

    I would really like to see RDLR get a look at the BP for next year.  The guy throws serious gas with a lot of movement....if he can harness the control in a bit I think we could be looking at our future closer.

    [/QUOTE]


    Im with you on RDLR king. Put him in the closers role in AAA from the start and see what happens. I would non tender Bailey and try to bring him back for a year at a lower base and let him earn some. Hes been out a ton of time so no team will pay 5M for him.

    I also wish people would stop with all the Workman to the pen BS. Hes a kid that can give you 200+ IP a year with 3-4 MLB quality pitches. Enough with that already. Not happening.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bailey will probably be nontendered. We could sign Mujica, but one estimate had him at $7M x 3. Other FAs?  Balfour or Benoit?

    [/QUOTE]

    Balfour is my pick.  Guy has said he wants to win a world series. Has a firey spirit that other teams hate.  He does well in the set up or closer role.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree with you 100% in that we need to think about the back end of the BP but I really think it's super important first to look at in-house candidates.  Let's call a spade a spade....While Ben has been great with his signings and the HUGE trade that cleared space....his track record in trading for relievers is less than stellar.

    I would really like to see RDLR get a look at the BP for next year.  The guy throws serious gas with a lot of movement....if he can harness the control in a bit I think we could be looking at our future closer.

    [/QUOTE]


    Im with you on RDLR king. Put him in the closers role in AAA from the start and see what happens. I would non tender Bailey and try to bring him back for a year at a lower base and let him earn some. Hes been out a ton of time so no team will pay 5M for him.

    I also wish people would stop with all the Workman to the pen BS. Hes a kid that can give you 200+ IP a year with 3-4 MLB quality pitches. Enough with that already. Not happening.

    [/QUOTE]
    If the Sox have RDLR he needs to start the season someplace other than in Boston.  The last couple of times I saw him (tv) he couldn't find the plate with both hands and a flashlight! He DOES have good velocity but he needs to learn how to control it. 

    His numbers look misleadingly good.  K/BB = 6/2 and a WHIP is a serviceable 1.50 but he gave up 7 runs in 11 IP.  IIRC most of his problems came after he got behind in the count and had to come in with a good pitch.

    His stock in trade is a 100MPH FB.  If he can throw strikes he could be a closer but unless he can he doesn't bring much to the table. Or the pitching rubber. In any capacity. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    "Experienced closers" are a waste of resources.  Don't get mewrong.  Upgrade the bullpen. 

     

    Dign guys like Mujica and (not or, and) Crain who are good pitchers and capable of handling any relief role.

     

    Make the pen an overall strength and not a place to bury pitchers who are not good enough for the rotation. ..

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Experienced closers" are a waste of resources.  Don't get mewrong.  Upgrade the bullpen. 

     

    Dign guys like Mujica and (not or, and) Crain who are good pitchers and capable of handling any relief role.

     

    Make the pen an overall strength and not a place to bury pitchers who are not good enough for the rotation. ..

    [/QUOTE]

    Filling a BP is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle.  You just never know who's going to work out.  There's a reason these guys are in the pen.  They're not good enough to start and not good enough to close. You just hope you can find a guy who can be effective for an inning or two and hold your breath.  LH specialists being the exception. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Experienced closers" are a waste of resources.  Don't get mewrong.  Upgrade the bullpen. 

     

    Dign guys like Mujica and (not or, and) Crain who are good pitchers and capable of handling any relief role.

     

    Make the pen an overall strength and not a place to bury pitchers who are not good enough for the rotation. ..

    [/QUOTE]

    Filling a BP is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle.  You just never know who's going to work out.  There's a reason these guys are in the pen.  They're not good enough to start and not good enough to close. You just hope you can find a guy who can be effective for an inning or two and hold your breath.  LH specialists being the exception. 

    [/QUOTE]

    MOST relief pitchers are afterthought "lightning in a bottle" types, but not all.  The Sox need to focus on the high K/BB types who are much more consistent performers...

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    I agree with the guys who have mentioned adding more quality depth to the bullpen.

    Koji was great, but is likely not to repeat such a year long performance, and the Sox as an organization should not expect him to do so.  I also think that Workman has to be a starter at least as long as he proves that he cannot be.  

    Miller and Breslow are not likely to become closers although both should be very important parts of the bullpen.  De La Rosa is a wildcard.  Pawtucket's closer could earn a promotion. Morales may find a spot

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    I'd go split contract on Bailey, then add another arm.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to charliedarling's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree with the guys who have mentioned adding more quality depth to the bullpen.

    Koji was great, but is likely not to repeat such a year long performance, and the Sox as an organization should not expect him to do so.  I also think that Workman has to be a starter at least as long as he proves that he cannot be.  

    Miller and Breslow are not likely to become closers although both should be very important parts of the bullpen.  De La Rosa is a wildcard.  Pawtucket's closer could earn a promotion. Morales may find a spot

    [/QUOTE]

    Morales will find a spot on the bench.  He can't be trusted in any high leverage situation.  He can't consistently throw strikes.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to splendidsplinterteddyballgame's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to charliedarling's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree with the guys who have mentioned adding more quality depth to the bullpen.

    Koji was great, but is likely not to repeat such a year long performance, and the Sox as an organization should not expect him to do so.  I also think that Workman has to be a starter at least as long as he proves that he cannot be.  

    Miller and Breslow are not likely to become closers although both should be very important parts of the bullpen.  De La Rosa is a wildcard.  Pawtucket's closer could earn a promotion. Morales may find a spot

    [/QUOTE]

    Morales will find a spot on the bench.  He can't be trusted in any high leverage situation.  He can't consistently throw strikes.

    [/QUOTE]


    He has better control than Andrew Miller.

     

    Personally, I think Morales should be moved for a solid defensive catcher, like Ryan Hanigan...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    Personally, I think Morales should be moved for a solid defensive catcher, like Ryan Hanigan...

    Good idea.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    look for guys like KoJi though........he had a pretty steady ERA over his career.... look for guys that may not be in the limelight as closers but have steady production.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    look for guys like KoJi though........he had a pretty steady ERA over his career.... look for guys that may not be in the limelight as closers but have steady production.

    [/QUOTE]

    The names to consider include Edward Mujica, Jesse Crain, Joe Smith, Tim Stauffer, and - I cannot believe I am about to mention these guys - Jamey Wright and LaTroy Hawkins.

     

    Maybe avoid those last 2...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    RP is such an every other year position.  these guys all seem to have even year bad, odd year good or vice versa.  put all the RP's that had "off" years in 2013 in a hat and pick one.  science has nothing on me......

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    look for guys like KoJi though........he had a pretty steady ERA over his career.... look for guys that may not be in the limelight as closers but have steady production.

    [/QUOTE]

    The names to consider include Edward Mujica, Jesse Crain, Joe Smith, Tim Stauffer, and - I cannot believe I am about to mention these guys - Jamey Wright and LaTroy Hawkins.

     

    Maybe avoid those last 2...

    [/QUOTE]

    The Sox Front Office has indicated that they aren't going to spend big for a bullpen arm, which obviously eliminates most of those guys, especially Mujica.  Obviously things could change, but since Koji will be the closer barring injury and they have some depth already under contract, my guess is that they'll go "low risk/high reward" with relievers this winter, especially when you consider how unpredictable most middle relievers are from year to year.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It would be reckless to go into 2014 relying on Koji to pitch another 75 straight shutout innings. His 2013 season was possibly one of the best seasons for a relief pitcher ever; the chances that he'll even come close to that again are pretty slim. 

    On the other hand, he Sox wouldn't want to sign a closer who expects to be a closer, since Koji has earned the right to start the season there. What they need is an excellent set-up man who is ready to slide into the closer role if/when Koji falters. I'm skeptical that Junichi is that guy, and I know neither Bailey nor Hanrahan are.

    So where should they go? Bullpens are finicky, and there's a lot of matriculation throughout a season. A player can be stellar one year, and bring a 5.50 ERA the next. A guy can be lights out for two months, and then a strained forearm takes him out the rest of the year. Or the reverse; a guy can flounder along in the 6th inning for 10 innins with a 6.00 ERA, and then suddenly *click* and be lights out the rest of the season.

    So obviously, the Sox want to stock up on low-cost middle relief and see who might emerge. But should there be any big name targets in trade or FA? Are you satisfied with just relying on the prospects? What's a GM to do?

    [/QUOTE]

    In 2010, Uehara's first year as a reliever, he had a 2.86 ERA and 0.96 WHIP.  Both of those stats have gotten better every year since.  What makes you think he can't continue to be good?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    I think they would be nuts to not come back with Uehara.

    Why give up on a guy because it's "unlikely" he will repeat his performance.

    It's "unlikely" Ortiz will duplicate his 2004 playoff 9 years later. Not only did he do it, he went beyond.

    I don't look to fix things that aren't broken. When he fails , they will be options. Afterall , Uhehara wasn't the frist choice anyway, but he really worked out.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to greenwellforpresident's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It would be reckless to go into 2014 relying on Koji to pitch another 75 straight shutout innings. His 2013 season was possibly one of the best seasons for a relief pitcher ever; the chances that he'll even come close to that again are pretty slim. 

    On the other hand, he Sox wouldn't want to sign a closer who expects to be a closer, since Koji has earned the right to start the season there. What they need is an excellent set-up man who is ready to slide into the closer role if/when Koji falters. I'm skeptical that Junichi is that guy, and I know neither Bailey nor Hanrahan are.

    So where should they go? Bullpens are finicky, and there's a lot of matriculation throughout a season. A player can be stellar one year, and bring a 5.50 ERA the next. A guy can be lights out for two months, and then a strained forearm takes him out the rest of the year. Or the reverse; a guy can flounder along in the 6th inning for 10 innins with a 6.00 ERA, and then suddenly *click* and be lights out the rest of the season.

    So obviously, the Sox want to stock up on low-cost middle relief and see who might emerge. But should there be any big name targets in trade or FA? Are you satisfied with just relying on the prospects? What's a GM to do?

    [/QUOTE]

    In 2010, Uehara's first year as a reliever, he had a 2.86 ERA and 0.96 WHIP.  Both of those stats have gotten better every year since.  What makes you think he can't continue to be good?

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe he can, but do you bet your bullpen on it?

    Koji's 2013 season was one of the best by a RP ever. Regression is a near certainty. If he only regresses to his 2010 numbers, then great! But there's a real risk that he will regress further, or suffer an overuse injury. He had 72 IP this year; far more than any previous year in his career. Adn he'll be 39 y/o.

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy is not a "hardthrower", I wouldn't worry about overuse. This is another result of flawed modern thinking in reference to pitchers. The Washington Nationals babied the hell out of Stephen Starsbourg and he still couldn't avoid Tommy John surgery.

    A 38 year old relief pitcher is not going to fall apart because he threw 72 innings. He barely ever throws a pitch over 90mph.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Sox need another closer.

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to greenwellforpresident's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It would be reckless to go into 2014 relying on Koji to pitch another 75 straight shutout innings. His 2013 season was possibly one of the best seasons for a relief pitcher ever; the chances that he'll even come close to that again are pretty slim. 

    On the other hand, he Sox wouldn't want to sign a closer who expects to be a closer, since Koji has earned the right to start the season there. What they need is an excellent set-up man who is ready to slide into the closer role if/when Koji falters. I'm skeptical that Junichi is that guy, and I know neither Bailey nor Hanrahan are.

    So where should they go? Bullpens are finicky, and there's a lot of matriculation throughout a season. A player can be stellar one year, and bring a 5.50 ERA the next. A guy can be lights out for two months, and then a strained forearm takes him out the rest of the year. Or the reverse; a guy can flounder along in the 6th inning for 10 innins with a 6.00 ERA, and then suddenly *click* and be lights out the rest of the season.

    So obviously, the Sox want to stock up on low-cost middle relief and see who might emerge. But should there be any big name targets in trade or FA? Are you satisfied with just relying on the prospects? What's a GM to do?

    [/QUOTE]

    In 2010, Uehara's first year as a reliever, he had a 2.86 ERA and 0.96 WHIP.  Both of those stats have gotten better every year since.  What makes you think he can't continue to be good?

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe he can, but do you bet your bullpen on it?

    Koji's 2013 season was one of the best by a RP ever. Regression is a near certainty. If he only regresses to his 2010 numbers, then great! But there's a real risk that he will regress further, or suffer an overuse injury. He had 72 IP this year; far more than any previous year in his career. Adn he'll be 39 y/o.

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy is not a "hardthrower", I wouldn't worry about overuse. This is another result of flawed modern thinking in reference to pitchers. The Washington Nationals babied the hell out of Stephen Starsbourg and he still couldn't avoid Tommy John surgery.

    A 38 year old relief pitcher is not going to fall apart because he threw 72 innings. He barely ever throws a pitch over 90mph.

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly, and the coaching staff was phenomenal with how they handled the bullpen last year.  The number of times a reliever gets up to throw goes a long way in adding to wear & tear.  It was very rare that a Sox reliever got up to throw and wasn't used.  Bobby Valentine & his staff were horrible at handling relievers in that regard.  

    The Sox aren't going to replace Koji because "there's a good chance that he regresses," after coming off one of the best seasons a relief pitcher has ever had in the history of baseball.  

     

Share