sox need one more move

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxyjim. Show soxyjim's posts

    sox need one more move

    this is a bother to me.i like buch but last year was shocking to me as he

    took so long to come back.i just dont trust his duribility at all.

    when healthy this guy is off the charts.i would like to see the sox make

    a move with him and get another quality starter in his place.i just feel

    that he will bite this team in the butt this year even worse.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    Troublesome indeed, but you have to decide between an elite SP 2/3's of the time, or a #3 type.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    Hes at 7.7M this year and 12-12.5 for the next 2 years.

    We have Dempster and Workman if something should happen.

    I would take 160IP from Buch over 200IP from a lot of other more expensive pitchers. When you have the depth we have, you can take more chances than other teams. Buch is certainly worth taking that chance.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from HailToTheKing. Show HailToTheKing's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    I think the least of pur worries is the pitching staff.  To me it's still, who is going to replace Ellsburys production at the plate AS A LEAD OFF HITTER and who is going to replace his speed on how he disprupts the pitchers a lot when on base?  He was also very good in CF.  Yes he had a horrible arm but he got to balls and made catches that NOBODY on this team right now can do.  Vic is a GREAT fielder but think back to when he was in cdnter....he missed a bunch of balls that Ells would have gotten to.

    More importantly though....it's the lead off hitter.  Wh replaces him?  Pedey is perfect in the 2 or 3 hole as is Vic.  Nava?  ehhhh......he's a platoon player right now.  I think people are really underestimating the iportance Ellsbury had on this lineup.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from HailToTheKing. Show HailToTheKing's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    .....and yes....I'm fully aware that there are about 400 typos in my last post.  The edit button is not working for me.... GO BDC!!!!!!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    Lefty nailed it. 

    18-20 regular season starts from Buch + healthy for playoff run + "bargain" salary for the next 3 seasons = stand pat.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    Nobody is going to trade a 32 game Buch-type for a 22 game Buch.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    I would be surprised if one of our SP isn't traded before the opening day and we all know Peavy or Dempster is the leading candidates to go.  If Buch is out again and need some time off, we have Webster, Workman, Britton, Wright, or even Ranaudo, Barnes, and Hinojosa depending on their performance.  We do not need to make a big move for another SP IMO.  And it was reported early in the morning that Tanaka won't be posted after all.  This would favor Ben to deal one of our veteran pitchers at higher value.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    Based upon the OPs theory I have a question for him.

    would you trade your pitcher for Clay knowing what you just stated about Clay and why they should trade him? 

    Your premiss is that the other teams GM is dumb and will trade his non fragile pitcher for Clay who you say is fragile. 

    This is why we are arm chair GMs we make trades in many cases that only make sense for the RS and even then sometimes it does not make sense for either team.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    Why do so many wish to trade Peavey or Demptier. We all know at some point the RS are going to need another starter. I for one would rather have Dempster in the BP and able to come and be a starter than anyone of the others who have yet to be a full time MLB starter. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to soxyjim's comment:

    this is a bother to me.i like buch but last year was shocking to me as he

    took so long to come back.i just dont trust his duribility at all.

    when healthy this guy is off the charts.i would like to see the sox make

    a move with him and get another quality starter in his place.i just feel

    that he will bite this team in the butt this year even worse.



    Would like a power bat behind Ortiz. Naps is not it. Someone you can put 4th so pitchers won't pitch around Ortiz. Right now it's a no brainer you walk Ortiz to get to Naps ( the king of the swing and miss ).. One more Power righty that can make contact..

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from HailToTheKing. Show HailToTheKing's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to donrd4's comment:

    In response to soxyjim's comment:

    this is a bother to me.i like buch but last year was shocking to me as he

    took so long to come back.i just dont trust his duribility at all.

    when healthy this guy is off the charts.i would like to see the sox make

    a move with him and get another quality starter in his place.i just feel

    that he will bite this team in the butt this year even worse.



    Would like a power bat behind Ortiz. Naps is not it. Someone you can put 4th so pitchers won't pitch around Ortiz. Right now it's a no brainer you walk Ortiz to get to Naps ( the king of the swing and miss ).. One more Power righty that can make contact..




    I know where you're coming from but this team won the world series last year with out TOP NOTCH protection behind Papi.  Napps is fine in that roll.  He's no 'gimme' in terms of an out and has high OBP.  I see this team as being above avg in the power category if healthy.  Especially if WMB can come back and play cosistent and Boggy can hit about 15- 20HR's.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to soxyjim's comment:

    this is a bother to me.i like buch but last year was shocking to me as he

    took so long to come back.i just dont trust his duribility at all.

    when healthy this guy is off the charts.i would like to see the sox make

    a move with him and get another quality starter in his place.i just feel

    that he will bite this team in the butt this year even worse.



    I agree.   I hear Ryan Dempster and Jake Peavy are available.   The Sox need to look into this...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to HailToTheKing's comment:

    In response to donrd4's comment:

    In response to soxyjim's comment:

    this is a bother to me.i like buch but last year was shocking to me as he

    took so long to come back.i just dont trust his duribility at all.

    when healthy this guy is off the charts.i would like to see the sox make

    a move with him and get another quality starter in his place.i just feel

    that he will bite this team in the butt this year even worse.



    Would like a power bat behind Ortiz. Naps is not it. Someone you can put 4th so pitchers won't pitch around Ortiz. Right now it's a no brainer you walk Ortiz to get to Naps ( the king of the swing and miss ).. One more Power righty that can make contact..




    I know where you're coming from but this team won the world series last year with out TOP NOTCH protection behind Papi.  Napps is fine in that roll.  He's no 'gimme' in terms of an out and has high OBP.  I see this team as being above avg in the power category if healthy.  Especially if WMB can come back and play cosistent and Boggy can hit about 15- 20HR's.



    Exactly.


    Ortiz had 8 more IBBs than Miguel Cabrera last year.

    Doesn't seem to be that big of a problem.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to HailToTheKing's comment:

    I think the least of pur worries is the pitching staff.  To me it's still, who is going to replace Ellsburys production at the plate AS A LEAD OFF HITTER and who is going to replace his speed on how he disprupts the pitchers a lot when on base?  He was also very good in CF.  Yes he had a horrible arm but he got to balls and made catches that NOBODY on this team right now can do.  Vic is a GREAT fielder but think back to when he was in cdnter....he missed a bunch of balls that Ells would have gotten to.

    More importantly though....it's the lead off hitter.  Wh replaces him?  Pedey is perfect in the 2 or 3 hole as is Vic.  Nava?  ehhhh......he's a platoon player right now.  I think people are really underestimating the iportance Ellsbury had on this lineup.


    I couldn't agree more with this post. ^^^ 

    But the fact is that the Ellsbury ship has sailed and we need to find an option.  I have no problem with the defensive side of JBJ - I'm even willing to concede that the Sox may be a bit better on that side of the ball - but to "trade" a leadoff hitter for a #9 hitter is a HUGE drop.

    In all fairness, that drop IS more obvious because we lost one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball.  Had we lost an average leadoff hitter I wouldn't be as concerned.  IMHO the key to the Sox offense may be Middlebrooks' ability to protect Napoli. If he can do that Naps will have even more good pitches to hit and that may make up for the loss of Ellsbury's production.

    It's going to be a different offensive team without Ellsbury's speed but that doesn't mean there won't be different ways to generate runs.   

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to soxyjim's comment:

    this is a bother to me.i like buch but last year was shocking to me as he

    took so long to come back.i just dont trust his duribility at all.

    when healthy this guy is off the charts.i would like to see the sox make

    a move with him and get another quality starter in his place.i just feel

    that he will bite this team in the butt this year even worse.




    There was a great deal of analysis on this board and the majority of people who expressed oppinions was that one half year of Clay where he pitches dominant is more valuable to this team on his current contract of only $7 mil a year that he won't be traded this year.  Next year is a different animal since his cap hit will go up quite a bit even though it is still team friendly. 

    If we do trade Clay, I could see it happening next year... but even that is unlikely.  We will be down Lester, Peavy and Dempster next year and trading away a starter will not solve that problem.  This is a problem that does not have an easy solution... on the one hand you have Clay who can't seem to stay healthy for an entire season, on the other he is your best pitcher when healthy.  Tough call and I'm not in the Red Sox FO to have to make it.

    Personally, I think the only move that really needs to get done is to get some CF depth through a trade like our Morales trade we just made.  We have four catchers, Villareal and Wright still clogging up the 40 man.  I'm thinking the guy that goes could be Dan Butler out of the catchers... but I don't see Villareal going anywhere as he pitched very well for Detroit in 2012 and showed that he can do it on the big stage, but I don't see Wright being long for this team.  We need to drop a catcher or Wright so we can get some CF depth.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    Why do so many wish to trade Peavey or Demptier. We all know at some point the RS are going to need another starter. I for one would rather have Dempster in the BP and able to come and be a starter than anyone of the others who have yet to be a full time MLB starter. 



    Bingo... +1

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to HailToTheKing's comment:

    In response to donrd4's comment:

    In response to soxyjim's comment:

    this is a bother to me.i like buch but last year was shocking to me as he

    took so long to come back.i just dont trust his duribility at all.

    when healthy this guy is off the charts.i would like to see the sox make

    a move with him and get another quality starter in his place.i just feel

    that he will bite this team in the butt this year even worse.



    Would like a power bat behind Ortiz. Naps is not it. Someone you can put 4th so pitchers won't pitch around Ortiz. Right now it's a no brainer you walk Ortiz to get to Naps ( the king of the swing and miss ).. One more Power righty that can make contact..




    I know where you're coming from but this team won the world series last year with out TOP NOTCH protection behind Papi.  Napps is fine in that roll.  He's no 'gimme' in terms of an out and has high OBP.  I see this team as being above avg in the power category if healthy.  Especially if WMB can come back and play cosistent and Boggy can hit about 15- 20HR's.



    Exactly.


    Ortiz had 8 more IBBs than Miguel Cabrera last year.

    Doesn't seem to be that big of a problem.



    Did they walk Ortiz in PLAYOFFS or WORD SERIES?  Would you pitch to Ortiz or Naps? Just saying....Are you talking about the Miguel Cabrera that was " hurt ".....Still think a power contact guy batting 4th instead of baseballs ( human fan )

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    Firstly, our pitching situation is intact and we do, in fact, have a couple of excess guys who can be used in a trade. 

    Problem is who is available for our needs. Replacing Ellsbury is biggest concern although Bradley is the heir apparent but there was a time when Curtis Granderson was compared to him(and a better HR hitter too) like Cano was compared to Pedey. I would like to have gone after Curtis. A Yankee I have always liked is Gardner. Reminds me of Damon.  Will NY take one of our excess pitchers for him ?

    There were talks of trading Milddlebrooks but we can keep him and hope his offensive production picks up.  I know that Boegards will be starting but our situation with Drew is pending...great defense, weak offense. But who else is available as I am not in love with keeping Drew at the money he wants.

    Hope Pierzynski can provide some power along with Middy to support Ortiz & Napps.   We will probably have the same love hate relationship with him, strike out or HR. And he does get into streaks...losing ones and hot ones. His defense, however, at 1st is excellent.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to HailToTheKing's comment:

    I think the least of pur worries is the pitching staff.  To me it's still, who is going to replace Ellsburys production at the plate AS A LEAD OFF HITTER and who is going to replace his speed on how he disprupts the pitchers a lot when on base?  He was also very good in CF.  Yes he had a horrible arm but he got to balls and made catches that NOBODY on this team right now can do.  Vic is a GREAT fielder but think back to when he was in cdnter....he missed a bunch of balls that Ells would have gotten to.

    More importantly though....it's the lead off hitter.  Wh replaces him?  Pedey is perfect in the 2 or 3 hole as is Vic.  Nava?  ehhhh......he's a platoon player right now.  I think people are really underestimating the iportance Ellsbury had on this lineup.


    I couldn't agree more with this post. ^^^ 

    But the fact is that the Ellsbury ship has sailed and we need to find an option.  I have no problem with the defensive side of JBJ - I'm even willing to concede that the Sox may be a bit better on that side of the ball - but to "trade" a leadoff hitter for a #9 hitter is a HUGE drop.

    In all fairness, that drop IS more obvious because we lost one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball.  Had we lost an average leadoff hitter I wouldn't be as concerned.  IMHO the key to the Sox offense may be Middlebrooks' ability to protect Napoli. If he can do that Naps will have even more good pitches to hit and that may make up for the loss of Ellsbury's production.

    It's going to be a different offensive team without Ellsbury's speed but that doesn't mean there won't be different ways to generate runs.   



    So do you think the Sox should go after Shin-Soo Choo?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

    Firstly, our pitching situation is intact and we do, in fact, have a couple of excess guys who can be used in a trade. 

    Problem is who is available for our needs. Replacing Ellsbury is biggest concern although Bradley is the heir apparent but there was a time when Curtis Granderson was compared to him(and a better HR hitter too) like Cano was compared to Pedey. I would like to have gone after Curtis. A Yankee I have always liked is Gardner. Reminds me of Damon.  Will NY take one of our excess pitchers for him ?

    There were talks of trading Milddlebrooks but we can keep him and hope his offensive production picks up.  I know that Boegards will be starting but our situation with Drew is pending...great defense, weak offense. But who else is available as I am not in love with keeping Drew at the money he wants.

    Hope Pierzynski can provide some power along with Middy to support Ortiz & Napps.   We will probably have the same love hate relationship with him, strike out or HR. And he does get into streaks...losing ones and hot ones. His defense, however, at 1st is excellent.



    If the Yanks biggest weakness is starting pitching this year, I highly doubt the Sox would help their biggest rival with helping to fill their biggest weakness.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to HailToTheKing's comment:

    I think the least of pur worries is the pitching staff.  To me it's still, who is going to replace Ellsburys production at the plate AS A LEAD OFF HITTER and who is going to replace his speed on how he disprupts the pitchers a lot when on base?  He was also very good in CF.  Yes he had a horrible arm but he got to balls and made catches that NOBODY on this team right now can do.  Vic is a GREAT fielder but think back to when he was in cdnter....he missed a bunch of balls that Ells would have gotten to.

    More importantly though....it's the lead off hitter.  Wh replaces him?  Pedey is perfect in the 2 or 3 hole as is Vic.  Nava?  ehhhh......he's a platoon player right now.  I think people are really underestimating the iportance Ellsbury had on this lineup.


    I couldn't agree more with this post. ^^^ 

    But the fact is that the Ellsbury ship has sailed and we need to find an option.  I have no problem with the defensive side of JBJ - I'm even willing to concede that the Sox may be a bit better on that side of the ball - but to "trade" a leadoff hitter for a #9 hitter is a HUGE drop.

    In all fairness, that drop IS more obvious because we lost one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball.  Had we lost an average leadoff hitter I wouldn't be as concerned.  IMHO the key to the Sox offense may be Middlebrooks' ability to protect Napoli. If he can do that Naps will have even more good pitches to hit and that may make up for the loss of Ellsbury's production.

    It's going to be a different offensive team without Ellsbury's speed but that doesn't mean there won't be different ways to generate runs.   



    So do you think the Sox should go after Shin-Soo Choo?



    Not at all, not for the kind of money Choo is expecting to get.  As I said, IMO JBJ will give us more on defense than Ellsbury did and that's a plus.  A plus on defense means we don't have to score as many runs.  I just don't think the defensive plus will offset the offensive minus of not having Ellsbury in the lineup  - but it's a start.

    My point was that while the loss of Ellsbury will be felt it's not the end of the world.  We've gotten accustomed to having that speed at the top of the lineup but there are other ways to score runs.  We just now have to go to those 'other ways'.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: sox need one more move

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    Why do so many wish to trade Peavey or Demptier. We all know at some point the RS are going to need another starter. I for one would rather have Dempster in the BP and able to come and be a starter than anyone of the others who have yet to be a full time MLB starter. 



    I'd like to see the Red Sox dump Dempster if they could so they could trade or free up some cash to pay for a player that might have more utility to them than a 6th starter.  A right-handed or switch-hitting centerfielder would be nice as a hedge against JBJ in case he stumbles, base-slealing ability a plus.  It's really not that complicated.  

    The expected response might be, "You can never have enough pitching, blah, blah, blah," especially relying on a brittle Buchholz and some 30 somethings.  I get that.  But they also have Workman, whom I would be willing to bet significantly outperforms Dempster, but may not be given a full season's (nevermind post-season's) workload yet in spite of his surname.  I'm sure there's someone in the organization or a player who could be acquired on the cheap that, as a patch, may not give them much less than Dempster would.  

     
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