Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    Soooooo many young names.  Odds are one of these sleepers will be a future allstar, the again one of Barnes Bradley and Bogaerts could end up being a bust....Still the depth and talent is there

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    Our team got a lot younger after the Dodger deal and loss of some deadwood.

    Here's a look by age:

    Non prospects:

    37: Papi (2 more years) & Atchison (Non-tendered?)

    36: D Ross (2 yrs)

    34: Lackey (3 yrs of control)

    33: R Hill (Non-tendered?)

    32: J Gomes (2 yrs) & Breslow (1 yr control)

    30: Aceves (2 yrs) & Nava (4 yrs)

    29: Pedey (3 yrs), Lester (2 yrs), Ellsbury (1 yr) & Bailey (2 yrs)

    28: Buchholz (5 yrs), Sweeney (1 yr), Salty (1 yr), Miller (2 yr), Bard (3 yrs), Melancon (4 yrs), Mortensen (5 yrs), & Gomez (pre arb)

    27: Morales (2 yrs), Tazawa (4 yrs), Ciriaco (5 yrs), & C Carpenter (5 yrs)

    26: Beato (5 yrs)

    25: Doubront (5 yrs), Lavarnway(pre-arb), Kalish (5 yrs), & Sands (pre-arb)

    24: de la Rosa (5 yrs) & Middlebrooks (pre-arb)

    23: Iglesias (1 yr then arb)

     

    Prospects:

    C   20 Swihart, 22 Vazquez

    1B 22 Shaw

    2B 20 Coyle

    3B 21 Cecchini, 23 Vitek

    SS  20 Bogaerts, 22 Marrero, 19 Vinicio, 18 Lin, 

    OF  22 Bradley, 23 Brentz, 21 de la Cruz, 21 Jacobs, 18 Margot, 25 Hazelbaker,

           28 Linares

    SP  22 Barnes, 22 Webster, 20 Owens, 23 Britton, 24 Workman, 21 Johnson,

          23 Ranaudo, 22 Pimental, 21 Light, 19 Buttrey, 19 Montas, 19 Kukuk, 18 Callahan,

          23 Hernandez, 22 Ramirez,  20 Mercedes 

    RP 26 Wilson

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    It takes a while for top prospects to prove they are productive MLB players, so here is a look back at soxprospects.com top 3 players from 2003 to 2010...

    (All top 3 players are listed- just notable 4 and overs are listed)

    (Players are only listed once per year and at their highest spot that year)

    2003

    1 Youk, Jorge de la Rosa, F Sanchez

    2 Han Ram, Lester

    3 Shoppach

    7 D Murphy

    8 Delcarmen

    2004

    1 Lester, Youk, HanRam

    2 B Moss

    3 Pedey, Shopp, A Alvarez

    4 Papelbon

    2005

    1 HanRam, Papelbon

    2 BMoss, Lester

    3 Pedey, A Sanchez

    5 Hansen

    2006

    1 Lester, Ellsbury, Papelbon

    2 Buchholtz, Hansen

    3 Bowden

    4 Pedey

    6 Bard

    7 Lowrie, Masterson

    2007

    1 Ells, Buch

    3 Bowden

    4 Pedey, lars, Masterson

    5 B Moss, Lowrie

    6 Bard

    7 Kottaras, Hagadone

    9 Kalish

    2008

    1 Buch, Masterson, Lars

    2 Ells, Bowden

    3 Reddick, Lowrie

    2009:

    1 Lars, Kelly

    2 Reddick, Bowden

    3 Bard, Kalish

    4 Westmoreland

    5 Tazawa

    8 Rizzo

    2010

    1 Kelly

    2 Reddick, Lars, kalish

    3 Rizzo

    4 Iggy

    6 Doubront

    7 Ranaudo

    10 Middlebrooks

     

    Looking at all the names of the14  top 3 players from 2003 to 2006, how many were duds?

    How many became very good to great players?

    HanRam

    Pedey

    Youkilis

    Lester

    Papelbon

    Ellsbury

    A Sanchez

    de la Rosa (Best was #1)

    Shoppach (best was #3)

    Hansen (best was #3)

    F Sanchez (best was #1)

    B Moss (best was#2)

    M Bowden (best was #3)

    A Alavarez (best was #3)

     

    I count 7 of the 14 as having very good to great production, 4 having Ok production and 3 as duds.

    That's 11 of 14 being OK or better.

     

    From 2007-2008:

    #1:

    Buchholtz (3 out of 6 times ranked)

    Ellsbury (1)

    Masterson (1)

    Anderson (1)

    #2

    Ellsbury (3) 

    Bowden (2)

    Buch (1)

    #3

    Bowden (3)

    Reddick (1)

    Masterson (1)

    Lowrie (1)

     

    2009-2010

    #1

    Kelly (4)

    Anderson (2)

    #2 

    Bowden (2)

    Reddick (2)

    Kalish (1)

    Anderson (1) 

    #3

    Kalish (3)

    Reddick (1)

    Rizzo (1)

    Bard (1)

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It takes a while for top prospects to prove they are productive MLB players, so here is a look back at soxprospects.com top 3 players from 2003 to 2010...

    (All top 3 players are listed- just notable 4 and overs are listed)

    (Players are only listed once per year and at their highest spot that year)

    2003

    1 Youk, Jorge de la Rosa, F Sanchez

    2 Han Ram, Lester

    3 Shoppach

    7 D Murphy

    8 Delcarmen

    2004

    1 Lester, Youk, HanRam

    2 B Moss

    3 Pedey, Shopp, A Alvarez

    4 Papelbon

    2005

    1 HanRam, Papelbon

    2 BMoss, Lester

    3 Pedey, A Sanchez

    5 Hansen

    2006

    1 Lester, Ellsbury, Papelbon

    2 Buchholtz, Hansen

    3 Bowden

    4 Pedey

    6 Bard

    7 Lowrie, Masterson

    2007

    1 Ells, Buch

    3 Bowden

    4 Pedey, lars, Masterson

    5 B Moss, Lowrie

    6 Bard

    7 Kottaras, Hagadone

    9 Kalish

    2008

    1 Buch, Masterson, Lars

    2 Ells, Bowden

    3 Reddick, Lowrie

    2009:

    1 Lars, Kelly

    2 Reddick, Bowden

    3 Bard, Kalish

    4 Westmoreland

    5 Tazawa

    8 Rizzo

    2010

    1 Kelly

    2 Reddick, Lars, kalish

    3 Rizzo

    4 Iggy

    6 Doubront

    7 Ranaudo

    10 Middlebrooks

     

    Looking at all the names of the14  top 3 players from 2003 to 2006, how many were duds?

    How many became very good to great players?

    HanRam

    Pedey

    Youkilis

    Lester

    Papelbon

    Ellsbury

    A Sanchez

    de la Rosa (Best was #1)

    Shoppach (best was #3)

    Hansen (best was #3)

    F Sanchez (best was #1)

    B Moss (best was#2)

    M Bowden (best was #3)

    A Alavarez (best was #3)

     

    I count 7 of the 14 as having very good to great production, 4 having Ok production and 3 as duds.

    That's 11 of 14 being OK or better.

     

    From 2007-2008:

    #1:

    Buchholtz (3 out of 6 times ranked)

    Ellsbury (1)

    Masterson (1)

    Anderson (1)

    #2

    Ellsbury (3) 

    Bowden (2)

    Buch (1)

    #3

    Bowden (3)

    Reddick (1)

    Masterson (1)

    Lowrie (1)

     

    2009-2010

    #1

    Kelly (4)

    Anderson (2)

    #2 

    Bowden (2)

    Reddick (2)

    Kalish (1)

    Anderson (1) 

    #3

    Kalish (3)

    Reddick (1)

    Rizzo (1)

    Bard (1)

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Id say weve had pretty good luck with our prospects. Its been a little down the last few years as some our top guys now were just entering the organization or maturing within the system..Kelly and Rizzo wouldve helped, but I think from this point on we should start seeing a somewhat regular flow of "kids" playing in Boston.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It takes a while for top prospects to prove they are productive MLB players, so here is a look back at soxprospects.com top 3 players from 2003 to 2010...

    (All top 3 players are listed- just notable 4 and overs are listed)

    (Players are only listed once per year and at their highest spot that year)

    2003

    1 Youk, Jorge de la Rosa, F Sanchez

    2 Han Ram, Lester

    3 Shoppach

    7 D Murphy

    8 Delcarmen

    2004

    1 Lester, Youk, HanRam

    2 B Moss

    3 Pedey, Shopp, A Alvarez

    4 Papelbon

    2005

    1 HanRam, Papelbon

    2 BMoss, Lester

    3 Pedey, A Sanchez

    5 Hansen

    2006

    1 Lester, Ellsbury, Papelbon

    2 Buchholtz, Hansen

    3 Bowden

    4 Pedey

    6 Bard

    7 Lowrie, Masterson

    2007

    1 Ells, Buch

    3 Bowden

    4 Pedey, lars, Masterson

    5 B Moss, Lowrie

    6 Bard

    7 Kottaras, Hagadone

    9 Kalish

    2008

    1 Buch, Masterson, Lars

    2 Ells, Bowden

    3 Reddick, Lowrie

    2009:

    1 Lars, Kelly

    2 Reddick, Bowden

    3 Bard, Kalish

    4 Westmoreland

    5 Tazawa

    8 Rizzo

    2010

    1 Kelly

    2 Reddick, Lars, kalish

    3 Rizzo

    4 Iggy

    6 Doubront

    7 Ranaudo

    10 Middlebrooks

     

    Looking at all the names of the14  top 3 players from 2003 to 2006, how many were duds?

    How many became very good to great players?

    HanRam

    Pedey

    Youkilis

    Lester

    Papelbon

    Ellsbury

    A Sanchez

    de la Rosa (Best was #1)

    Shoppach (best was #3)

    Hansen (best was #3)

    F Sanchez (best was #1)

    B Moss (best was#2)

    M Bowden (best was #3)

    A Alavarez (best was #3)

     

    I count 7 of the 14 as having very good to great production, 4 having Ok production and 3 as duds.

    That's 11 of 14 being OK or better.

     

    From 2007-2008:

    #1:

    Buchholtz (3 out of 6 times ranked)

    Ellsbury (1)

    Masterson (1)

    Anderson (1)

    #2

    Ellsbury (3) 

    Bowden (2)

    Buch (1)

    #3

    Bowden (3)

    Reddick (1)

    Masterson (1)

    Lowrie (1)

     

    2009-2010

    #1

    Kelly (4)

    Anderson (2)

    #2 

    Bowden (2)

    Reddick (2)

    Kalish (1)

    Anderson (1) 

    #3

    Kalish (3)

    Reddick (1)

    Rizzo (1)

    Bard (1)

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Id say weve had pretty good luck with our prospects. Its been a little down the last few years as some our top guys now were just entering the organization or maturing within the system..Kelly and Rizzo wouldve helped, but I think from this point on we should start seeing a somewhat regular flow of "kids" playing in Boston.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's hard to judge recent years accurately, since some are still very young, but we can pretty much say Lars was a dud.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    bump

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    I know This is a little off topic but, I am Really hoping to see The Sox take Kris Bryant Out of USD in the draft.His Dad Mike Bryant was a Prospect for the sox back in the 80's (He actually roomed with "Oil can" Boyd in the minors, Some of you might already know this but Mike actually told me that oil can was on coke in almost every game he pitched even bak then) Lol. Im a longtime friend of Kris and He's Very humble And has what it takes to make it too the show. I have attended Batting practice and some games( He played for the Chatham Anglers in the Summer of 2011, He did pretty good too) And i gotta tell ya Just the sound of the ball coming off his bat is Something you have to hear(The ball Jumps Off his bat). If He can fill out his tall frame(He's 6'5 almost 6'6) He should be able to develop even more power. He's got a strong throwing arm, He Projects to he be a Corner outfielder in the bigs( He might be able to stay at third who knows). He even has Decent speed for a kid his size. Maybe we can have Three Killer Bees Instead of two like someone mentioned earlier in the thread. Check out this video of Kris Hitting an absolute moonshot over the center field fence, Try and keep Your eye on the ball and see where it lands.Lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmrjdUypJNUs

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I know This is a little off topic but, I am Really hoping to see The Sox take Kris Bryant Out of USD in the draft.His Dad Mike Bryant was a Prospect for the sox back in the 80's (He actually roomed with "Oil can" Boyd in the minors, Some of you might already know this but Mike actually told me that oil can was on coke in almost every game he pitched even bak then) Lol. Im a longtime friend of Kris and He's Very humble And has what it takes to make it too the show. I have attended Batting practice and some games( He played for the Chatham Anglers in the Summer of 2011, He did pretty good too) And i gotta tell ya Just the sound of the ball coming off his bat is Something you have to hear(The ball Jumps Off his bat). If He can fill out his tall frame(He's 6'5 almost 6'6) He should be able to develop even more power. He's got a strong throwing arm, He Projects to he be a Corner outfielder in the bigs( He might be able to stay at third who knows). He even has Decent speed for a kid his size. Maybe we can have Three Killer Bees Instead of two like someone mentioned earlier in the thread. Check out this video of Kris Hitting an absolute moonshot over the center field fence, Try and keep Your eye on the ball and see where it lands.Lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmrjdUypJNUs

     

    [/QUOTE]


    This is the guy Ive been mentioning grabbing in the 1st round for a while now. I read where scouts say he Could be a good 1b. He plays corner IF/OF and Hes got power with good defense.

    If you know him, do you think he can be a good 1b?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I know This is a little off topic but, I am Really hoping to see The Sox take Kris Bryant Out of USD in the draft.His Dad Mike Bryant was a Prospect for the sox back in the 80's (He actually roomed with "Oil can" Boyd in the minors, Some of you might already know this but Mike actually told me that oil can was on coke in almost every game he pitched even bak then) Lol. Im a longtime friend of Kris and He's Very humble And has what it takes to make it too the show. I have attended Batting practice and some games( He played for the Chatham Anglers in the Summer of 2011, He did pretty good too) And i gotta tell ya Just the sound of the ball coming off his bat is Something you have to hear(The ball Jumps Off his bat). If He can fill out his tall frame(He's 6'5 almost 6'6) He should be able to develop even more power. He's got a strong throwing arm, He Projects to he be a Corner outfielder in the bigs( He might be able to stay at third who knows). He even has Decent speed for a kid his size. Maybe we can have Three Killer Bees Instead of two like someone mentioned earlier in the thread. Check out this video of Kris Hitting an absolute moonshot over the center field fence, Try and keep Your eye on the ball and see where it lands.Lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmrjdUypJNUs

     

    [/QUOTE]


    This is the guy Ive been mentioning grabbing in the 1st round for a while now. I read where scouts say he Could be a good 1b. He plays corner IF/OF and Hes got power with good defense.

    If you know him, do you think he can be a good 1b?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, Hes played 1B quite a few times at USD and other various places. He Could Probably be an above average defensive first baseman. But to be honest with you though, If what ive been told by his dad is true it would be a waste to play him at 1B. He has such a strong solid throwing arm that you would want him at a position where he could use it like 3B or RF.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I know This is a little off topic but, I am Really hoping to see The Sox take Kris Bryant Out of USD in the draft.His Dad Mike Bryant was a Prospect for the sox back in the 80's (He actually roomed with "Oil can" Boyd in the minors, Some of you might already know this but Mike actually told me that oil can was on coke in almost every game he pitched even bak then) Lol. Im a longtime friend of Kris and He's Very humble And has what it takes to make it too the show. I have attended Batting practice and some games( He played for the Chatham Anglers in the Summer of 2011, He did pretty good too) And i gotta tell ya Just the sound of the ball coming off his bat is Something you have to hear(The ball Jumps Off his bat). If He can fill out his tall frame(He's 6'5 almost 6'6) He should be able to develop even more power. He's got a strong throwing arm, He Projects to he be a Corner outfielder in the bigs( He might be able to stay at third who knows). He even has Decent speed for a kid his size. Maybe we can have Three Killer Bees Instead of two like someone mentioned earlier in the thread. Check out this video of Kris Hitting an absolute moonshot over the center field fence, Try and keep Your eye on the ball and see where it lands.Lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmrjdUypJNUs

     

    [/QUOTE]


    This is the guy Ive been mentioning grabbing in the 1st round for a while now. I read where scouts say he Could be a good 1b. He plays corner IF/OF and Hes got power with good defense.

    If you know him, do you think he can be a good 1b?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, Hes played 1B quite a few times at USD and other various places. He Could Probably be an above average defensive first baseman. But to be honest with you though, If what ive been told by his dad is true it would be a waste to play him at 1B. He has such a strong solid throwing arm that you would want him at a position where he could use it like 3B or RF.

    [/QUOTE]


    Honestly, Id be more concerned with showing off his bat than his arm. Its good that he can play the OF or 3b in a pinch though. makes him that much more valuable. If this kid can be an above average 1b with a thunderous bat for years, count me in...The Sox have next to nothing in the system as far as 1b goes. a few 3b and a few OF. Thats why Im all about 1b for him.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I know This is a little off topic but, I am Really hoping to see The Sox take Kris Bryant Out of USD in the draft.His Dad Mike Bryant was a Prospect for the sox back in the 80's (He actually roomed with "Oil can" Boyd in the minors, Some of you might already know this but Mike actually told me that oil can was on coke in almost every game he pitched even bak then) Lol. Im a longtime friend of Kris and He's Very humble And has what it takes to make it too the show. I have attended Batting practice and some games( He played for the Chatham Anglers in the Summer of 2011, He did pretty good too) And i gotta tell ya Just the sound of the ball coming off his bat is Something you have to hear(The ball Jumps Off his bat). If He can fill out his tall frame(He's 6'5 almost 6'6) He should be able to develop even more power. He's got a strong throwing arm, He Projects to he be a Corner outfielder in the bigs( He might be able to stay at third who knows). He even has Decent speed for a kid his size. Maybe we can have Three Killer Bees Instead of two like someone mentioned earlier in the thread. Check out this video of Kris Hitting an absolute moonshot over the center field fence, Try and keep Your eye on the ball and see where it lands.Lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmrjdUypJNUs

     

    [/QUOTE]


    This is the guy Ive been mentioning grabbing in the 1st round for a while now. I read where scouts say he Could be a good 1b. He plays corner IF/OF and Hes got power with good defense.

    If you know him, do you think he can be a good 1b?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, Hes played 1B quite a few times at USD and other various places. He Could Probably be an above average defensive first baseman. But to be honest with you though, If what ive been told by his dad is true it would be a waste to play him at 1B. He has such a strong solid throwing arm that you would want him at a position where he could use it like 3B or RF.

    [/QUOTE]


    Honestly, Id be more concerned with showing off his bat than his arm. Its good that he can play the OF or 3b in a pinch though. makes him that much more valuable. If this kid can be an above average 1b with a thunderous bat for years, count me in...The Sox have next to nothing in the system as far as 1b goes. a few 3b and a few OF. Thats why Im all about 1b for him.

    [/QUOTE]

    Love it southpaw. I honestly dont care where they would play him i just want the sox to draft him. It would be nice to have Kris back around here again. His Family lived in Acton,Ma for the longest time but moved to Las vegas about 12 years ago or so.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    We've basically replaced the per year contracts of CC & Beckett:

    Victorino $13M

    Napoli   $13M

    Gomes  $5M

    D Ross   $5M

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    Not done yet Moon. BC seems to have a plan all laid out and is executing it. Move moves to come.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We've basically replaced the per year contracts of CC & Beckett:

    Victorino $13M

    Napoli   $13M

    Gomes  $5M

    D Ross   $5M

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Pretty good.  I am content with it.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We've basically replaced the per year contracts of CC & Beckett:

    Victorino $13M

    Napoli   $13M

    Gomes  $5M

    D Ross   $5M

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Pretty good.  I am content with it.

    [/QUOTE]

    If they add Greinke or Hamilton, the money's about even.

    Basically....

    AGon, CC, Beckett, and Punto

    for

    Hamilton or Greinke

    Napoli

    Victorino

    Gomes

    D Ross

    plus de la Rosa, Webster, & Sands

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We've basically replaced the per year contracts of CC & Beckett:

    Victorino $13M

    Napoli   $13M

    Gomes  $5M

    D Ross   $5M

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Pretty good.  I am content with it.

    [/QUOTE]


    Considering what was available and the fact that BJ freakin Upton signed for 15M per and 5 years should tell everyone that the market for MLB OF is high.

    I figured the would have to give Naps a little extra for one less year, and they did. Im good with the moves so far too...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We've basically replaced the per year contracts of CC & Beckett:

    Victorino $13M

    Napoli   $13M

    Gomes  $5M

    D Ross   $5M

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Pretty good.  I am content with it.

    [/QUOTE]


    Considering what was available and the fact that BJ freakin Upton signed for 15M per and 5 years should tell everyone that the market for MLB OF is high.

    I figured the would have to give Naps a little extra for one less year, and they did. Im good with the moves so far too...

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Other then Kuroda, has there been a really great deal out there? Everything seems kind of expensive.

     

    With that being said, according to Fangraphs, our 4 new guys won 8.9 games last year vs. 2.7 for Beckett and Crawford. And in the last two seasons our 4 new guys won 23.3 games vs. 7.2 for Crawford and Beckett. This doesn't even take into account their clubhouse impacts both good and bad.

     

    If you believe in WAR, thats a lot better spending allocations right there.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We've basically replaced the per year contracts of CC & Beckett:

    Victorino $13M

    Napoli   $13M

    Gomes  $5M

    D Ross   $5M

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Pretty good.  I am content with it.

    [/QUOTE]


    Considering what was available and the fact that BJ freakin Upton signed for 15M per and 5 years should tell everyone that the market for MLB OF is high.

    I figured the would have to give Naps a little extra for one less year, and they did. Im good with the moves so far too...

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Other then Kuroda, has there been a really great deal out there? Everything seems kind of expensive.

     

    With that being said, according to Fangraphs, our 4 new guys won 8.9 games last year vs. 2.7 for Beckett and Crawford. And in the last two seasons our 4 new guys won 23.3 games vs. 7.2 for Crawford and Beckett. This doesn't even take into account their clubhouse impacts both good and bad.

     

    If you believe in WAR, thats a lot better spending allocations right there.

    [/QUOTE]

    I do value WAR, but it not the whole story.

    We also lost AGon due to the dumping of CC and Beckett. CC was hurt. Beckett had his even year - off year again.

    I'm still happy we made the Dodger deal, but I expected better use of the money saved in the trade. That's all I'm pointing out.

    For $36M a year, we might have gotten:

    A Sanchez, McCarthy & Pagan

    or

    A Sanchez, Napoli and ???

    or 

    Greinke, Napoli and ???

    or McCarthy, Marcum, Naploi and ???

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We've basically replaced the per year contracts of CC & Beckett:

    Victorino $13M

    Napoli   $13M

    Gomes  $5M

    D Ross   $5M

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Pretty good.  I am content with it.

    [/QUOTE]


    Considering what was available and the fact that BJ freakin Upton signed for 15M per and 5 years should tell everyone that the market for MLB OF is high.

    I figured the would have to give Naps a little extra for one less year, and they did. Im good with the moves so far too...

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Other then Kuroda, has there been a really great deal out there? Everything seems kind of expensive.

     

    With that being said, according to Fangraphs, our 4 new guys won 8.9 games last year vs. 2.7 for Beckett and Crawford. And in the last two seasons our 4 new guys won 23.3 games vs. 7.2 for Crawford and Beckett. This doesn't even take into account their clubhouse impacts both good and bad.

     

    If you believe in WAR, thats a lot better spending allocations right there.

    [/QUOTE]

    I do value WAR, but it not the whole story.

    We also lost AGon due to the dumping of CC and Beckett. CC was hurt. Beckett had his even year - off year again.

    I'm still happy we made the Dodger deal, but I expected better use of the money saved in the trade. That's all I'm pointing out.

    For $36M a year, we might have gotten:

    A Sanchez, McCarthy & Pagan

    or

    A Sanchez, Napoli and ???

    or 

    Greinke, Napoli and ???

    or McCarthy, Marcum, Naploi and ???

    [/QUOTE]


     

    The likely problem with  3 of your scenerios is the length of Sanchez and Greinke's contracts. Per year it sounds great. But its incredibly dangerous to sign a pitcher to a 6 year plus deal. And based on the way things are going they will likely get a six and SEVEN year deal. Its the 150+ part that spooks me off Greinke, not the 22 part. Not saying I never sign a pitcher to a 6 year deal, just not sure Sanchez is the guy I do it for.

     

    I much prefer Victorino to Marcum and we need just one starter IMO and atleast 2 OF's. So not high on your final list either.

     

    As for the Punto trade, you left out the Webster-De La Rosa inclusion. For me, that way more then covers Gonzalez.

     

    When we traded for Gonzalez, I really thought we were getting an all world power hitter who would tear up the Monster. I remember watching him in San Diego and the ball jumped off his bat. The guy walked more then K'd because his bat was so feared. However, the power left him, especially last year. He often turned into Ichiro looping lazy liners over the SS's head. If that continues, I don't think AGon has ANY net value. Its possible that getting rid of Gonzalez was just as good as getting rid of Crawford. We will see if at least some of his power comes back or not.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We've basically replaced the per year contracts of CC & Beckett:

    Victorino $13M

    Napoli   $13M

    Gomes  $5M

    D Ross   $5M

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Pretty good.  I am content with it.

    [/QUOTE]


    Considering what was available and the fact that BJ freakin Upton signed for 15M per and 5 years should tell everyone that the market for MLB OF is high.

    I figured the would have to give Naps a little extra for one less year, and they did. Im good with the moves so far too...

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Other then Kuroda, has there been a really great deal out there? Everything seems kind of expensive.

     

    With that being said, according to Fangraphs, our 4 new guys won 8.9 games last year vs. 2.7 for Beckett and Crawford. And in the last two seasons our 4 new guys won 23.3 games vs. 7.2 for Crawford and Beckett. This doesn't even take into account their clubhouse impacts both good and bad.

     

    If you believe in WAR, thats a lot better spending allocations right there.

    [/QUOTE]

    I do value WAR, but it not the whole story.

    We also lost AGon due to the dumping of CC and Beckett. CC was hurt. Beckett had his even year - off year again.

    I'm still happy we made the Dodger deal, but I expected better use of the money saved in the trade. That's all I'm pointing out.

    For $36M a year, we might have gotten:

    A Sanchez, McCarthy & Pagan

    or

    A Sanchez, Napoli and ???

    or 

    Greinke, Napoli and ???

    or McCarthy, Marcum, Naploi and ???

    [/QUOTE]


     

    The likely problem with  3 of your scenerios is the length of Sanchez and Greinke's contracts. Per year it sounds great. But its incredibly dangerous to sign a pitcher to a 6 year plus deal. And based on the way things are going they will likely get a six and SEVEN year deal. Its the 150+ part that spooks me off Greinke, not the 22 part. Not saying I never sign a pitcher to a 6 year deal, just not sure Sanchez is the guy I do it for.

    I wouldn't want to pay Greinke or A Sanchez for 5+ years either. My point was, I'd rather do that than spend $23M for Victorino, Gomes and D Ross.

     

    I much prefer Victorino to Marcum and we need just one starter IMO and atleast 2 OF's. So not high on your final list either.

    The advantage of signing 2 pitchers (I'd like 2 from Sanchez, Mccarthy, or Marcum) is that the trade value of guys like Doubront, Morales, Tazawa, Miller, Mortensen, Aceves and others is now extremely high in light of the sky-rocketing costs of today's FAs.

    There are teams looking to contend that can't afford McCarthy or Marcum, let alone Sanchez or Greinke, so their only way to upgrade would be to trade for guys like Doubront of others I listed above. 

    This way we improve our staff and then trade our pitching depth for the key players, such as J Upton. Now that we have Victorino, that option is about dead, unless we trade Ellsbury for prospects and then flip them (and others) for Justin. 

    As for the Punto trade, you left out the Webster-De La Rosa inclusion. For me, that way more then covers Gonzalez.

    I mentioned them on another thread, and unless we spend the $22M on AGon better than we did on CC, Beckett and Punto's  cost savings, I'm not sure Webster, de la Rosa and sands is a good enough payback for AGon. Remember, we also paid LA some money (was it $11M?). 

    When we traded for Gonzalez, I really thought we were getting an all world power hitter who would tear up the Monster. I remember watching him in San Diego and the ball jumped off his bat. The guy walked more then K'd because his bat was so feared.

    I projected 50+ Hrs within his first 3 years in Boston, so we thought the same here.

    However, the power left him, especially last year. He often turned into Ichiro looping lazy liners over the SS's head. If that continues, I don't think AGon has ANY net value. Its possible that getting rid of Gonzalez was just as good as getting rid of Crawford. We will see if at least some of his power comes back or not.

    [/QUOTE]


    One could also look at the cost of AGon, CC and Beckett as not as bad as it seemed when you look at what guys like Victorino just got. If Shane is worth $13M, is CC really that overpaid at $20M?

    (Sidenote: I am not arguing that CC was worth keeping. The day we signed him, I said he "was a glorified platoon player" that would "cripple our team for 7 years". I was thrilled the day we traded him, and haven't changed my mind even with all these mistakes being made.)

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I wouldn't want to pay Greinke or A Sanchez for 5+ years either. My point was, I'd rather do that than spend $23M for Victorino, Gomes and D Ross.

     [QUOTE]

    I expect 6+ years for both. If either sign for 5 years  I might agree. However, if I am right and it ends up being 6-96 for Sanchez, would you prefer that to say Ross and Victorino at 3-39 and 2-6? It would equal 16 million a year combined, same as Sanchez. Even though I really like Sanchez, I prefer the other two and to try and find a starter elsewhere.

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]The advantage of signing 2 pitchers (I'd like 2 from Sanchez, Mccarthy, or Marcum) is that the trade value of guys like Doubront, Morales, Tazawa, Miller, Mortensen, Aceves and others is now extremely high in light of the sky-rocketing costs of today's FAs.

    There are teams looking to contend that can't afford McCarthy or Marcum, let alone Sanchez or Greinke, so their only way to upgrade would be to trade for guys like Doubront of others I listed above. 

     [QUOTE]

     

    This is an excellent point. Although it would seem to mainly be about just trading Doubront since we are talking starting pitching here. If we trade Doubront for some "real" value in return, then its a great idea to sign two.

     

     [QUOTE]

    I projected 50+ Hrs within his first 3 years in Boston, so we thought the same here.

     [QUOTE]

     

    I still think if we had gotten the SD Gonzalez we both would have been proven right. I projected 320-45-45-140 with 100 walks and a 1000 OPS, so don't feel too bad.:)

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    One could also look at the cost of AGon, CC and Beckett as not as bad as it seemed when you look at what guys like Victorino just got. If Shane is worth $13M, is CC really that overpaid at $20M?

    (Sidenote: I am not arguing that CC was worth keeping. The day we signed him, I said he "was a glorified platoon player" that would "cripple our team for 7 years". I was thrilled the day we traded him, and haven't changed my mind even with all these mistakes being made.)

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Another great point. Free agent deal after deal, its taking some of our dominance out of that trade with the Dodgers. I was thinking the exact same thing yesterday. Good news is that its making it a very good trade for us, instead of a great trade.

     

    I am definately thinking I have to recalibrate my WAR based trade evaluator formula. Kick up my WAR per million to 4.8 next year, instead of 4.7.:)

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Prospects New Top Prospects List

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I wouldn't want to pay Greinke or A Sanchez for 5+ years either. My point was, I'd rather do that than spend $23M for Victorino, Gomes and D Ross.

     [QUOTE]

    I expect 6+ years for both. If either sign for 5 years  I might agree. However, if I am right and it ends up being 6-96 for Sanchez, would you prefer that to say Ross and Victorino at 3-39 and 2-6? It would equal 16 million a year combined, same as Sanchez. Even though I really like Sanchez, I prefer the other two and to try and find a starter elsewhere.

    If I had to choose between these 2 options, I'd go with A Sanchez or B McCarthy and the leftover money for someone else.

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The advantage of signing 2 pitchers (I'd like 2 from Sanchez, Mccarthy, or Marcum) is that the trade value of guys like Doubront, Morales, Tazawa, Miller, Mortensen, Aceves and others is now extremely high in light of the sky-rocketing costs of today's FAs.

    There are teams looking to contend that can't afford McCarthy or Marcum, let alone Sanchez or Greinke, so their only way to upgrade would be to trade for guys like Doubront of others I listed above. 

     [QUOTE]

     

    This is an excellent point. Although it would seem to mainly be about just trading Doubront since we are talking starting pitching here. If we trade Doubront for some "real" value in return, then its a great idea to sign two.

    To me, there are so many contender teams hurting for budget room that would be thrilled to trade for Doubront Morales, Tazawa and others. They'd be willing to give up some great prospects to do so. Then, we flip them for positional players.

     

     [QUOTE]

    I projected 50+ Hrs within his first 3 years in Boston, so we thought the same here.

     [QUOTE]

     

    I still think if we had gotten the SD Gonzalez we both would have been proven right. I projected 320-45-45-140 with 100 walks and a 1000 OPS, so don't feel too bad.:)

     

    It's not the first time I was wrong.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    One could also look at the cost of AGon, CC and Beckett as not as bad as it seemed when you look at what guys like Victorino just got. If Shane is worth $13M, is CC really that overpaid at $20M?

    (Sidenote: I am not arguing that CC was worth keeping. The day we signed him, I said he "was a glorified platoon player" that would "cripple our team for 7 years". I was thrilled the day we traded him, and haven't changed my mind even with all these mistakes being made.)

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Another great point. Free agent deal after deal, its taking some of our dominance out of that trade with the Dodgers. I was thinking the exact same thing yesterday. Good news is that its making it a very good trade for us, instead of a great trade.

     

    I am definately thinking I have to recalibrate my WAR based trade evaluator formula. Kick up my WAR per million to 4.8 next year, instead of 4.7.:)

     
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