Sox RBI leaders
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Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 10:52 AM EDT
- M1A2
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Lowrie and Ellsbury, 12 and 11. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 11:08 AM EDT
- Alibiike
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On pace for 108 and 99 respectively.
Drew is on pace for 36. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 11:14 AM EDT
- rkarp
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isn't an RBI the result of the players in front of you getting on base? Seemingly, Drew at an OBP of .364 seems he is doing his job. How is it his fault the players in front of him aren't on base? -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 11:30 AM EDT
- M1A2
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J.D. Drew has never been an rbi man, so no point in blaming him. He is what he is. Youk, Ortiz, and Gonzalez, on the other hand, are supposed to drive in runs, but don't (very often).
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Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 11:39 AM EDT
- Alibiike
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In Response to Re: Sox RBI leaders:isn't an RBI the result of the players in front of you getting on base? Seemingly, Drew at an OBP of .364 seems he is doing his job. How is it his fault the players in front of him aren't on base?
Posted by rkarp
He is 2 for 14 w/RISP with 7 K's. I'd call that non-productive.
It's always the same old argument. Drew's OBP is always good, therefore he's doing his job. Problem is, he can't seem to get on base when it matters most.
With bases empty his OBP is .379
With RISP it's .200. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 11:47 AM EDT
- jimdavis
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In Response to Re: Sox RBI leaders:J.D. Drew has never been an rbi man, so no point in blaming him. He is what he is. Youk, Ortiz, and Gonzalez, on the other hand, are supposed to drive in runs, but don't (very often).
Posted by M1A2
Your sample size is small, wouldn't you agree? Look at Gonzalez last 5 years and tell we which was the down rbi year. I'm confused. I go by track record over time and you are basing things on some games in April. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 12:27 PM EDT
- law2009a
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m -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 12:42 PM EDT
- Alibiike
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In Response to Re: Sox RBI leaders:In Response to Re: Sox RBI leaders : Your sample size is small, wouldn't you agree? Look at Gonzalez last 5 years and tell we which was the down rbi year. I'm confused. I go by track record over time and you are basing things on some games in April.
Posted by jimdavis
Fair enough. Drew did do better in 2010 w/RISP, albeit the first half (although April was dismal).
Historically though, he has not fared well in this area since coming to Boston. Hence the defense and OBP props. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 12:44 PM EDT
- devildavid
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It's a good thing that Lowrie and Ellsbury are knocking in runs now. But it doesn't mean much more than that. The other guys will get their share of RBI's over time. This can be spun as a positive as easily as a negative. Good for Jed and Jacoby! Keep it up boys! -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 1:13 PM EDT
- law2009a
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m -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 2:30 PM EDT
- moonslav59
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J.D. Drew has never been an rbi man, so no point in blaming him. He is what he is.
Overall:
JD Career: .280/.387/.498/.885
RISP:
JD Career: .276/.406/.488/.895
2outs and RISP:
JD Career: .245/.415/.463/.878
You don't think the fact that he has batted 6th or lower over 1,400 PAs has any effect on the fact that he is walked much more with men in scoring position? He has also batted 1st and 2nd over 1,400 times, limiting his RBI chances.
Here are some other notable Sox playes numbers:
OPS Overall RISP 2 outs/RISP
Youk .890 .979 .963 (OBP over .430 each RISP)
Ortiz .919 .929 .962 (OBP over .400 each RISP)
AGon .874 .988 .885 (OBP over .430 each RISP)
Drew .885 .895 .835 (OBP 20-30 pts higher w RISP)
Craw. .776 .832 .835 (OBP slightly higher w RISP)
Pedey .833 .772 .748 (RISP OBP lower than overall OBP)
I don't hear any Pedey RBI bashing. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 3:12 PM EDT
- fivekatz
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In Response to Re: Sox RBI leaders:J.D. Drew has never been an rbi man, so no point in blaming him. He is what he is. Overall: JD Career: .280/.387/.498/.885 RISP: JD Career: .276/.406/.488/.895 2outs and RISP: JD Career: .245/.415/.463/.878 You don't think the fact that he has batted 6th or lower over 1,400 PAs has any effect on the fact that he is walked much more with men in scoring position? He has also batted 1st and 2nd over 1,400 times, limiting his RBI chances. Here are some other notable Sox playes numbers: OPS Overall RISP 2 outs/RISP Youk .890 .979 .963 (OBP over .430 each RISP) Ortiz .919 .929 .962 (OBP over .400 each RISP) AGon .874 .988 .885 (OBP over .430 each RISP) Drew .885 .895 .835 (OBP 20-30 pts higher w RISP) Craw. .776 .832 .835 (OBP slightly higher w RISP) Pedey .833 .772 .748 (RISP OBP lower than overall OBP) I don't hear any Pedey RBI bashing.Beat me to it. I have always said if SABRmetricans are right that RBI are largely luck, that JD Drew is one of the unluckiest guys on earth.
Posted by moonslav59
You can't find anything in his splits, including RISP that would scream why he has had only had 100 RBI once in his whole career and never had 70 a RS player.
Much of the time when he has batted 7th in Boston the line-up behind him was weak and his OBP was heavily slanted with BB, no doubt pitchers being more than willing to take their chances with the guys behind him. 2009 was a great example where his OBP was .399 with RISP but his BA was .213. That suggests to me that pitchers just weren't going to pitch to him and they would take their chances with the guys behind him.
He is a much maligned player for being very good instead of great IMO. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 3:14 PM EDT
- moonslav59
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They pitch around him: he walks: fans squawk.
I guess some would prefer he swings at bad pitches and strikes out. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 3:22 PM EDT
- fivekatz
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In Response to Re: Sox RBI leaders:They pitch around him: he walks: fans squawk. I guess some would prefer he swings at bad pitches and strikes out.If that treatment was good enough for TS Williams it certainly should be good enough for JD?
Posted by moonslav59 -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 3:33 PM EDT
- devildavid
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moon, this issue of Drew's RBI's has come up before. His career numbers with RISP may be ok, but he hasn't performed up to that level with the Sox. He only had one good season (2008) with RISP. When it comes to RISP and RBI's, BA and SLG are of greater importance than OBP. Hits drive in more runs than walks, and extra base hits even more. Walking with a man on third may not hurt the team's chances of scoring but it also doesn't drive the run in.
I don't buy the place in the batting order argument. There have been far too many exceptions to this "rule". (See Johhny Damon, 2004) Place in the batting order does not control number of opportunities with RISP. Opportunities (number of PA) is definitely key, but you also need to look at how well a player converts the opportunies they have. Some hitters will go out of the strike zone with RISP, while others will not. Drew has a certain approach to hitting, which is extremely selective. This will lead to more walks and possibly more strikeouts as well. If he keeps his same approach with RISP, he will tend to drive in fewer runs. You don't have to take this as a knock on Drew, but this is a fact. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 4:00 PM EDT
- jimdavis
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Knock Drew if you want but the biggest play in the game was the way he played the ball off the bat and made the perfect relay. The play is talked about regarding the throw from Pedey. The correct play by Drew gave Pedey the opportunity. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 4:13 PM EDT
- devildavid
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Fans would prefer that Drew swing at borderline pitches rather than taking a called third strike on pitches on the corner.
Ted Williams lifetime with RISP had a .332 BA and a .632 SLG. That's how he drove in runs. His OBP was great too at .521, so they must have pitched around him a bit because they knew the consequences of giving him one he could hit. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 4:27 PM EDT
- BaseballGM
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If the Red Sox have to count on Ellsbury and Lowrie to lead the season RBI team leader race, they are on big trouble. Lowrie's a defensively range challenged v. LHP platoon type of profile, and Ellsbury can't maintain a decent OBP and BA trying to drive the ball.
RBI leaders at this point in the season are virtually meaningless. If Ellsbury had an OBP of .365 and 0 homers the team would have scored more runs than what he's been doing, which is sub Mendoza and OBP in the .200's. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 4:32 PM EDT
- jimdavis
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In Response to Re: Sox RBI leaders:If the Red Sox have to count on Ellsbury and Lowrie to lead the season RBI team leader race, they are on big trouble. Lowrie's a defensively range challenged v. LHP platoon type of profile, and Ellsbury can't maintain a decent OBP and BA trying to drive the ball. RBI leaders at this point in the season are virtually meaningless. If Ellsbury had an OBP of .365 and 0 homers the team would have scored more runs than what he's been doing, which is sub Mendoza and OBP in the .200's.
Posted by BaseballGM
But hits in clutch situations are meaningful and both Ellsbury and Jed have done that recently. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 4:38 PM EDT
- moonslav59
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JD came to Boston at age 31. It was not realistic to think he'd not decline some over the term of the contract.
JD's career overall numbers in Boston:
.270/.377/.474/.851
His numbers with RISP/RISO w 2 outs:
2007 .784/.831
2008 .979/.711
2009 .862/1.138
2010 .838/.883
Am I missing something? JD has done better with me on base in Boston than when they are not on base.
Did you guys really expect him to to keep up his .900 OPS after age 31? I have always said we overpaid for JD, but I'm pretty happy with .851. It's about what I expected. He's played more games than I expected a well. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 5:23 PM EDT
- BaseballGM
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If JD was expected to decline, imagine the case of Carl Crawford. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 5:38 PM EDT
- moonslav59
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I was against the Crawford signing on many levels, most significantly...
1) Way too much money
2) Way to many years
3) OF was not our main weakness (Ells & Cam returning & so many kids)
4) His weakness against LHPs
However, Crawford is 29, not 31 as Drew was, and I did expect 2-3 years of prime before a decline began. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 5:58 PM EDT
- BaseballGM
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Huge difference in 29 and 31, exactly two years apart. Great distinction. Crawford is going to return to at least the lower bounds of his career averages ranges. And that's what concerns me about this contract. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/22/2011 7:48 PM EDT
- M1A2
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I have no heartburn with anyone defending Drew, who is a competent rightfielder.
But all of you attacking Lowrie and Ellsbury are wrongheaded. Of course they can't sustain being the team leaders in rbi's, but right now they are at least knocking in runs when no one else is.
In case you haven't noticed, the Sox are 7-11 in part because they can't hit with with RISP--and by "they" I mean rbi champs like Ortiz, Gonzalez, Youk, etc. -
Re: Sox RBI leaders
posted at 4/23/2011 3:39 AM EDT
- BaseballGM
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Let's see where Ellsbury and Lowrie are when dog days hit.