Sox Rotation and Wakefield

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    I don't see how the Sox can bump Miller from the rotation any more. They
    either have to stick to the 6-man rotation or depending on how Wakefield does tonight, think about bumping him. They would never do that as they want Timmy to get to 200 but at what expense?

    My conclusion: They will stick with a 6-man rotation to give extra rest. With rosters expanding, they won't lose a bullpen roster spot. Atchison will be up next Thursday.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from frankn. Show frankn's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    I like this idea.  You also have more wiggle room to manipulate the rotation versus the Yanks and Texas. Will Doubront, Weiland be up to provide long relief?  It would be nice to rest our pen, especially Bard, but not at the cost of just accepting a wild card.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    Its a circus! Call back Weiland, one start disrupted by Os fued and the other was 3 runs and about 6 IP and quite good. They need to stop using Wakefield and allow young pitchers to get innings to see which ones show promising form potential long term (see Miller). 

    Other than the absurd reason of trying to get Wakefield 200 wins (who cares) and replace Clemens in meaningless quantity but no quality stat, no valid reason to keep losing games with Wakefield.

    Do not resign Wakefield!. If you don't have enough farm hands to share starter depth duty, and resort to Wakefield, Theo needs to be fired! Keep him off playoff roster, let him sit during expansion, wait until a meaningless game if there is one, and let him try and get a personal 200 bullet stat. Do not bring this old donkey back in 2012! Every team in baseball wants Wakefield back, because they want Wakefield instead of some young prospect who could emerge among several prospects.

    Please, don't allow Wakefield's name near Cy Young!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from theYAZZER. Show theYAZZER's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    here's how wake can easily obtain his 200th win. the next time the SOX score 10 runs before the 5th inning, pull the starter and insert the wake man.

    i can't imagine any other way wake could reach this milestone.

    and if he ever does get to 200, immediately after that game please put wake under the bullpen.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    here's how wake can easily obtain his 200th win. the next time the SOX score 10 runs before the 5th inning, pull the starter and insert the wake man.

    i can't imagine any other way wake could reach this milestone.

    and if he ever does get to 200, immediately after that game please put wake under the bullpen.

    That is exactly what they need to do! With one exception. Once Wakefield gets 200, tell him to either retire or he will be released!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not allow this bad circus act to be mentioned with Cy Young! No on Wakefield being all-time Red Sox pitcher wins! NWIH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    The sample sets are small BUT Miller has in his last two starts created some competitive tension here. There certainly will likely be a close eye on both. The RS seem to be pretty open to spot starts with 6 but less open to reshuffling everybody's routines on a more fixed basis to a 6 man rotation.

    That was a very nice start last night by Miller. But if we are quick to assume that when the RS get bet by anybody but a Cy Young candidate that they weren't "hitting" then don't we have to accept the possibility that the Rangers are in a hitting slump?

    The question with Miller has been and will continue to be control, not command but control. Until he puts a larger body of work where he limits his BB it is hard for me to get too confident that the RS have unlock the hidden value of the former first rounder. Not saying they can't BTW, Miller is a classic case of a player's development have been rushed (as it ws by Detroit in his case) and his career to date a testimony to how detrimental this can be to a young player.

    Wake's 200th win isn't quite as huge a factor as some here think IMO but regardless it will come this season and hopefully tonight so we can at least find new ways to bag on Wake and the manager for any losses Wakefield may take.

    Come September the RS are more likely to spend pat of the month getting the focus on regular work for the 4 they intend to use as PS starters and use 5 and 6 to shuffle the rotation into the order they plan to use in a 5 game series IMO. Who is 5 and who is 6 is yet to be seen but both will get some starts.

    I will grant the Wake bashers this. If Wake gets hammered tonight and Miller puts up another performance like last night's it is going to be very hard to keep Wake above Miller on the depth chart in the final month of what promises to be a very close race for the East. While the RS have talked about not blowing themselves out trying to win the divsion in past years, that was always in races were they were a number of games back, not in a dead heat to win the division.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    The sample sets are small BUT Miller has in his last two starts created some competitive tension here. There certainly will likely be a close eye on both. The RS seem to be pretty open to spot starts with 6 but less open to reshuffling everybody's routines on a more fixed basis to a 6 man rotation. That was a very nice start last night by Miller. But if we are quick to assume that when the RS get bet by anybody but a Cy Young candidate that they weren't "hitting" then don't we have to accept the possibility that the Rangers are in a hitting slump? The question with Miller has been and will continue to be control, not command but control. Until he puts a larger body of work where he limits his BB it is hard for me to get too confident that the RS have unlock the hidden value of the former first rounder. Not saying they can't BTW, Miller is a classic case of a player's development have been rushed (as it ws by Detroit in his case) and his career to date a testimony to how detrimental this can be to a young player. Wake's 200th win isn't quite as huge a factor as some here think IMO but regardless it will come this season and hopefully tonight so we can at least find new ways to bag on Wake and the manager for any losses Wakefield may take. Come September the RS are more likely to spend pat of the month getting the focus on regular work for the 4 they intend to use as PS starters and use 5 and 6 to shuffle the rotation into the order they plan to use in a 5 game series IMO. Who is 5 and who is 6 is yet to be seen but both will get some starts. I will grant the Wake bashers this. If Wake gets hammered tonight and Miller puts up another performance like last night's it is going to be very hard to keep Wake above Miller on the depth chart in the final month of what promises to be a very close race for the East. While the RS have talked about not blowing themselves out trying to win the divsion in past years, that was always in races were they were a number of games back, not in a dead heat to win the division.
    Posted by fivekatz


    Sounds you like you are trying to give Wake one last chance to stay in the rotation and this is just wrong - Oakland is not Texas at home...Miller is 6-1 and he does not spot the other team an early lead...hence the record

    Last week I correctly stated that Miller is a much better option than Wake and would be needed down the stretch to keep us in the division race...I had a few posters tell me that they would choose Wake in a heartbeat - Danny C comes to mind...Once again...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    There certainly will likely be a close eye on both

    You can't be serious, 5k? Why on earth is a close eye needed for Wakefield? That's like watching paint dry and expecting to see something different!

    Pretty obvious that Wakefield is an embedded management circus act. Any other team who payed no attention to "record chase" would release this guy. Miller can blow up and still have enough potential to come up big against a strong lineup. And beyond Miller, these innings need to be invested in youth! Wakefield is a zero confidence profile who is being kept on for the wrong reasons. If putting up a 5 plus ERA and not being a functional pen option is worthy of a roster spot, a lot of single A veterans can come up and do it. With Wakefield, it's always one decent start or a speck of decent start and it becomes an excuse to ignore how bad his big sample numbers are. With a young pitcher, it's one good start and "he hasn't proven anything" and one bad start and "send Him back to AAA so Wakefield can still keep hunting quanity and low quality milestone". Enough with it, if Wakefield looks good (hope it rains) then trade him to the first sucker who offers a decent single A baby teeth prospect!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    Wake's WHIP is 1.31, third best of the starters, and has given up the least amount of walks (34) in 126 IP.  Miller's is 1.69. He's given up 32 free passes in 55 IP.
    I'm so sick of all you Wakefield bashers. You have no clue as to how well he has pitched this year. He's had some tough luck and yes, he has given up a lot of HR's, but most have been solo.
    The defense has also let him down on several occasions.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from theYAZZER. Show theYAZZER's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    Wake's WHIP is 1.31, third best of the starters, and has given up the least amount of walks (34) in 126 IP.  Miller's is 1.69. He's given up 32 free passes in 55 IP. I'm so sick of all you Wakefield bashers. You have no clue as to how well he has pitched this year. He's had some tough luck and yes, he has given up a lot of HR's, but most have been solo. The defense has also let him down on several occasions.
    Posted by Alibiike


    too bad you're not a WHITE SOX fan; i'm sure you could even provide alibis
    for DUNN.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    Wake's WHIP is 1.31, third best of the starters, and has given up the least amount of walks (34) in 126 IP.  Miller's is 1.69. He's given up 32 free passes in 55 IP. I'm so sick of all you Wakefield bashers. You have no clue as to how well he has pitched this year. He's had some tough luck and yes, he has given up a lot of HR's, but most have been solo. The defense has also let him down on several occasions.
    Posted by Alibiike


    Alibiike - Points welll taken on the stats, but Wakefield has given up 19 HR in 126 IP.  1.4HR every 9 IP.  Miller is giving up .81 HR every 9 innings. That is a big disparity so please use that in your statistics.  ERA (4.42 vs 4.97) also favors Miller. If you are going to compare two pitchers statistically, take other important factors into account.

    Given the WHIP differential and the 1/2 run lower ERA Miller, that tells me one thing, Miller is able to get out of jams better. And Wakefield's WHIP over the last three months is over 5 and his WHIP since July 1 is about 1.5.

    Let' s see how he does tonight against the A's.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    Sounds you like you are trying to give Wake one last chance to stay in the rotation and this is just wrong - Oakland is not Texas at home...Miller is 6-1 and he does not spot the other team an early lead...hence the record

    If you are going to throw out Wake's performance vs Oakland, then you need to throw out Miller's first 9 starts.

    I'm nos saying Wake is the better choice right now, but you have to look at who Miller has faced up to last night as well. He's had a shockingly easy strength of opponent.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    Wake's WHIP is 1.31, third best of the starters, and has given up the least amount of walks (34) in 126 IP.  Miller's is 1.69. He's given up 32 free passes in 55 IP. I'm so sick of all you Wakefield bashers. You have no clue as to how well he has pitched this year. He's had some tough luck and yes, he has given up a lot of HR's, but most have been solo. The defense has also let him down on several occasions.
    Posted by Alibiike


    Plus, Wake has more GS and IP tahn any other Sox starter since he became a regular.

    Miller has looked good in a small sample size. He should get another few starts to prove it's not a fluke, but Wake has been getting better and better.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcjcjcjc. Show jcjcjcjc's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    latest 4heavenssakefield stats... last 66 games.. 5.89 ERA... 302 innings pitched.. 44 homeruns allowed ( including 45 starts ) Boston Red Sox team record.. 21 wins, 45 losses.. wakefield has 10 winning decisions in his last 45 starts.. in those 45 starts the Boston Red Sox team record is 17 wins, 28 losses. its putrid.. wakefield starting games with first place on the line with the Yankees is a joke!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    this is the one time, the one time I hope Wakefield throws a no hitter. He won't, but boy, I'd love for him to shove it up you haters mouths. Ungrateful for what he has done this season, any season. Who cares about records, I can tell you Tim has two thoughts on his mind--get through 7, keep his team in the game. I like that attitude.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    And I'm a big, big Andrew Miller fan. In fact, I'm the one who defended him back when he faced Chicago ChiSox. I really felt Tek called a bad game for him, and I know he didn't have command of the fastball, but he needed to keep throwing it. Salty did a nice job with him v. Texas. So stick it, geo.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    Don't forget and underestimate the ability to pitch with a 6-0 lead. It is so different than what Wakefield has received support wise since the 199th win. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    This is holds true with Lackey. Pitching with big leads gives you a real advantage on the mound. It just does. Only a pitcher can explain that. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    Bedard in fact has been outstanding with little offense overall. I give him credit.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    This whole thread has completely missed one point, and that is preparing Miller for a role out of the pen for the postseason regardless of how he performs in his next start or two.  The question is will he be used as a situational lefty, or long man to recover from a bad start by one of the regulars (or both).  He needs more prep in both these areas if the Red Sox are to utilize him this postseason. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    sheriff, good point. Maybe Andy should be used a bit in short stints to prep him. Can't hurt. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    Good points by all. One other thing to keep in mind and ask yourself:

    Assuming the Sox make the postseason, most playoff rosters only require 11 pitchers due to the lack of need for a 5th starter. Given that, Wakefield's roster spot becomes expendable and the team is better off having two lefties (Morales and Miller) in the bullpen instead of a lefty and Wakefield. Given that, the odds would say that Wakefield gets bumped from the post season roster and thus it is more important for Miller to get more work down the stretch than Wakefield.

    Factors that will determine the last roster spot:

    1. Will Buchholz return? Probably not
    2. Do they keep two lefties in the bullpen? Probably so
    3. Which righty mop up guy do you choose? Albers, Wakefield or possibly Atchison.

    Therefore, the last playoff roster spot will probably come down to Albers or Wakefield. Based on importance, they will probably keep Albers.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    I don't see how the Sox can bump Miller from the rotation any more. They either have to stick to the 6-man rotation or depending on how Wakefield does tonight, think about bumping him. They would never do that as they want Timmy to get to 200 but at what expense? My conclusion: They will stick with a 6-man rotation to give extra rest. With rosters expanding, they won't lose a bullpen roster spot. Atchison will be up next Thursday. Thoughts?
    Posted by ADG


    You could be right, Miller pitching well the rest of the season could also give Theo a nice option.  Does he try and sign Bedard and give Miller Wakes sixth spot. Or not sign Bedard in favor of Miller in the fifth spot. 

    I think both Bedard and Miller have better stuff than Wake at this point but it will be tough to let Tim go.

    Nice choice to have and either way Miller could be an upgrade over Wake.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALittleBitSouth. Show ALittleBitSouth's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    Sox should give up on Wake's 200 victories;it's the SOx record that matters, not his, so get him out of the rotation, forever.    
     
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