Sox Rotation and Wakefield

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    I'm on the fence, but if a gun was put to my head, here is how I would rate our healthy starters (the last 3 are very close):
    1) Beckett
    2) Lester
    3) Bedard
    4) Wake
    5) Miller
    6) Lackey

    Here's the 2011 healthy starter numbers:

    WHIP:
    1 Beck  0.97
    2 Lest   1.20
    3 Bed    1.29
     
    Starter avg 1.300
    4 Wake 1.33
    5 Lack   1.55
    6 Mill     1.65

    ERA
    1 Beck  2.43
    2 Lest   3.16
     
    Starter avg 4.08
    3 Bed    4.09
    4 Mill     4.33
    5 Wake 5.00
    6 Lack  5.98

    OPS against
    1 Beck  .576
    2 Bed   .664
    3 Lest  .674
    4 Wake .780
    5 Miller .793
    6 Lack  .843

    IP per GS
    1 Beck  6.5
    2 Lest   6.4
    3 Wake 6.2
     
    Starter avg 6.0
    4 Lack   5.9
    5 Bed    5.5
    6 Mill     5.2

    K/BB
    1 Bed  4.20
    2 Beck 3.36
    3 Lest  2.56
    4 Lack 2.28
      All starters
      2.17
    5 Wake 2.00
    6 Mill     1.17

    I'm not saying these numbers should determine who starts and who might go to the pen, but they certainly don't point to Wake as the odd man out. Lackey and Miller are 5th or 6th in almost every stat that counts.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    I'd say that his performance tonight might merit his getting skipped in te rotation...yikes even AJ Burnett is outpitching him tonight...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]This whole thread has completely missed one point, and that is preparing Miller for a role out of the pen for the postseason regardless of how he performs in his next start or two.  The question is will he be used as a situational lefty, or long man to recover from a bad start by one of the regulars (or both).  He needs more prep in both these areas if the Red Sox are to utilize him this postseason. 
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas[/QUOTE]



    BINGO!

    Team need presides over choice of 5th/6th slot. The likelihood is that Miller will remain in a floating position as a starter, given the tight race. But once the divisional winner is determined, he should be put in a role that would help the team in October.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]I'd say that his performance tonight might merit his getting skipped in te rotation...yikes even AJ Burnett is outpitching him tonight...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    I'd rather have Wake than AJ.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    Wakefield tough night. Way it goes. He was due for a bad start, believe it or not.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    17 straight starts.
    Most IP and most GS'd by a Sox pitcher since May 22nd.
    I think tonight made Tito's decision easier to present to Red Sox nation.
    danny, you have been saying this day could happen at any moment.
    That day has arrived.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]I'm on the fence, but if a gun was put to my head, here is how I would rate our healthy starters (the last 3 are very close): 1) Beckett 2) Lester 3) Bedard 4) Wake 5) Miller 6) Lackey Here's the 2011 healthy starter numbers: WHIP: 1 Beck  0.97 2 Lest   1.20 3 Bed    1.29   Starter avg 1.300 4 Wake 1.33 5 Lack   1.55 6 Mill     1.65 ERA 1 Beck  2.43 2 Lest   3.16   Starter avg 4.08 3 Bed    4.09 4 Mill     4.33 5 Wake 5.00 6 Lack  5.98 OPS against 1 Beck  .576 2 Bed   .664 3 Lest  .674 4 Wake .780 5 Miller .793 6 Lack  .843 IP per GS 1 Beck  6.5 2 Lest   6.4 3 Wake 6.2   Starter avg 6.0 4 Lack   5.9 5 Bed    5.5 6 Mill     5.2 K/BB 1 Bed  4.20 2 Beck 3.36 3 Lest  2.56 4 Lack 2.28   All starters   2.17 5 Wake 2.00 6 Mill     1.17 I'm not saying these numbers should determine who starts and who might go to the pen, but they certainly don't point to Wake as the odd man out. Lackey and Miller are 5th or 6th in almost every stat that counts.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    How about HR/9 IP. You see with Wakefield that his numbers are 1.5 per 9, which is horrible. Lackey isn't going anywhere due to his contract and Miller is pitching better. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]17 straight starts. Most IP and most GS'd by a Sox pitcher since May 22nd. I think tonight made Tito's decision easier to present to Red Sox nation. danny, you have been saying this day could happen at any moment. That day has arrived.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    What day is that moon?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield : How about HR/9 IP. You see with Wakefield that his numbers are 1.5 per 9, which is horrible. Lackey isn't going anywhere due to his contract and Miller is pitching better. 
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    His HR/IP ratio is high because his BB/IP is low.
    Pitchers who stay around the plate are more suseptible to the longball.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield : How about HR/9 IP. You see with Wakefield that his numbers are 1.5 per 9, which is horrible. Lackey isn't going anywhere due to his contract and Miller is pitching better. 
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    HR/9 is reflected in ERA, OPS against and WHIP. Wake is horrible in that stat, but I do not place overemphasis on it.

    I never said Lackey is going somewhere. I just said that by the numbers, Wake has done better. Go ahead and add HR/9, Wake was still way ahead of Lackey in almost all the other top categories, except K/BB.

    The gap just tightened.

    "Miller is pitching better" is based on 2 starts? I hope he keeps it up, but small sample size dfinitive judgements are scary.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield : What day is that moon?
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    The day Tito gets an excuse to take Wake from the rotation.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield : His HR/IP ratio is high because his BB/IP is low. Pitchers who stay around the plate are more suseptible to the longball.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Plus, he's always been a flyball pitcher.

    His career HR/9 is pretty high at 1.2. I think it's 1.4 this year (about the same as lackey, I imagine.)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]Wake's WHIP is 1.31, third best of the starters, and has given up the least amount of walks (34) in 126 IP.  Miller's is 1.69. He's given up 32 free passes in 55 IP. I'm so sick of all you Wakefield bashers. You have no clue as to how well he has pitched this year. He's had some tough luck and yes, he has given up a lot of HR's, but most have been solo. The defense has also let him down on several occasions.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    wow Alibiike, i guess your standards must be pretty low when it comes what qualifies as pitching well. wakefields era is 5.10. he has alowed 21 homers after getting owned by one of the worst offensive teams in the majors today. but ya he has pitched so well. clearly your the one who has no as to how terrible wakefield has been this year. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    I'm on the fence, but if a gun was put to my head, here is how I would rate our healthy starters (the last 3 are very close):
    1) Beckett
    2) Lester
    3) Bedard
    4) Wake
    5) Miller
    6) Lackey


    This is the most absurd nonsense one will ever read, other than spending to prosperity. Wakefield's ERA is over 5 for over 2 years! He is a human launching pad. A homer is like a dunk, it is a momentum changer and breeds confidence for the team thant rings them up and wakes them from a slumber. Scary is those who ignore it and claim Miller's small sample is scary.

    It's always "Wakefield is a proven pitcher, young guys need to go to AAA after one or two bad starts". 

    Read my comment before this embarrassment, and Wakefield was the only Red Sox player rested up. He needs to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    You flipped the coin 18 times and lost. Finally you guessed right, and now you're the expert.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    You flipped a coin a million times and have been wrong about Wastefield every single time. Big sample exposes Wastefield as a total joke!

    There certainly will likely be a close eye on both

    You can't be serious, 5k? Why on earth is a close eye needed for Wakefield? That's like watching paint dry and expecting to see something different!

    Pretty obvious that Wakefield is an embedded management circus act. Any other team who payed no attention to "record chase" would release this guy. Miller can blow up and still have enough potential to come up big against a strong lineup. And beyond Miller, these innings need to be invested in youth! Wakefield is a zero confidence profile who is being kept on for the wrong reasons. If putting up a 5 plus ERA and not being a functional pen option is worthy of a roster spot, a lot of single A veterans can come up and do it. With Wakefield, it's always one decent start or a speck of decent start and it becomes an excuse to ignore how bad his big sample numbers are. With a young pitcher, it's one good start and "he hasn't proven anything" and one bad start and "send Him back to AAA so Wakefield can still keep hunting quanity and low quality milestone". Enough with it, if Wakefield looks good (hope it rains) then trade him to the first sucker who offers a decent single A baby teeth prospect!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield : Plus, he's always been a flyball pitcher. His career HR/9 is pretty high at 1.2. I think it's 1.4 this year (about the same as lackey, I imagine.)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    And for the same reasons. Lackey has only walked 22 hitters over 90 IP since his return from the DL. Both pitchers pitch against tough competition in a hitter's venue.

    If you recall, when I stated Lackey began regressing in 2008, not in Boston, the HR ratio is a further indication. He was around the plate pretty much all of 2008, but his HR/IP ratio [as well as his poor # of QS's ratio] shot up in the 2nd half of that year.  He allowed only 6 dingers thru June in 69 IP. But, he allowed 20 over his final 95 IP! That skyrocketed his HR/IP ratio for the year - to a career high.

    Personally, I prefer to use QS's as a better source of measurement. Weather conditions and venue can play a major role in HR's allowed.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    i told you guys sooo...stop the insanity with the Wake pitching stats...everyone and their mom knows he has no place starting for this team on a regular basis
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    Weather conditions and venue can play a major role in HR's allowed.

    No, season sample shows that an old paunched goofball pitcher is the major role in hr's allowed.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jamesey271975. Show jamesey271975's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]Wake's WHIP is 1.31, third best of the starters, and has given up the least amount of walks (34) in 126 IP.  Miller's is 1.69. He's given up 32 free passes in 55 IP. I'm so sick of all you Wakefield bashers. You have no clue as to how well he has pitched this year. He's had some tough luck and yes, he has given up a lot of HR's, but most have been solo. The defense has also let him down on several occasions.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Wakefield is pathetic and has been for 2+ yrs. get over it. 


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    james, well said. If Red Sox fans would call for Wakefield's release we wouldnt have to suffer through this bad circus act.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    It's amazing how 1 bad start gets all this chatter; when Ells has a kick butt game, there's relatively little; especially by Voldemort.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    What ever chance Wake may have for No. 200, it will have to come from a lucky call from the bullpen. His knuckler is simply not doing what it's supposed to do.

    Give the ball to Miller, stick with a 5-man rotation with, for the most part, the 8th and 9th innings belonging to the 'pen.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedDead2067. Show RedDead2067's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    I try not to over-react. But watching Wakefield start is painful.

    I think they should 'at least' skip him over 1 start in the rotation.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Sox Rotation and Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]james, well said. If Red Sox fans would call for Wakefield's release we wouldnt have to suffer through this bad circus act.
    Posted by S0ftl@w[/QUOTE]

    You mean the same fans, you included, that called for his release before one of his best seasons ever (2008)? The same ones who called for his release before his allstar season of 2009? The same ones who called for his release before this season? The same ones who look at his overall season numbers and think he's the worst starter on the team. The same clowns who judge by one game. The one clown that repeats over and over that player will revert to their career norms, then neglects to face the facts of Miller's career numbers (certainly a large enough sample now at 64 career starts). The one clown who talks strength of opponenent then neglects to see that until 2 days ago, Miller had never faced a top 12 MLB offense, and still had worse numbers than Wake in every category, excpet a very very slight lead in ERA (4.99 to 4.97).

    You pouncing clowns are the real joke.
     

Share