Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    If only they knew which prospects were going to bust

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    Realistically this team overachieved this year and they are right in the the thick of things. I truely believe management was surprised about how this team did this year. A lot of the time prospects do not pan out. Example look at Jesus Montero who the Yankees traded to Seattle for Pineda. He struggled big time this year and is in Triple AAA now. The Red Sox are in the thick of it and they have to go for it and get a pitcher and a hitter. Who knows what Bucholtz is going to be like when he returns from his two month non serious injury hiatus. Relief pitchers I think they are going to be okay on with the young kids they have from Triple AAA Pawtucket on the club and with Morales  on a rehab assignment. 

    Bottom line is Michael Young would help and a starting pitcher like Peavy or Cliff Lee who Philadelphia would trade to dump off his contract. Again you have to give up something to get something. Remember Wyland, Kasson Gabbard they never made it at all after being dealt.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to AL34's comment:

    Realistically this team overachieved this year and they are right in the the thick of things. I truely believe management was surprised about how this team did this year. A lot of the time prospects do not pan out. Example look at Jesus Montero who the Yankees traded to Seattle for Pineda. He struggled big time this year and is in Triple AAA now. The Red Sox are in the thick of it and they have to go for it and get a pitcher and a hitter. Who knows what Bucholtz is going to be like when he returns from his two month non serious injury hiatus. Relief pitchers I think they are going to be okay on with the young kids they have from Triple AAA Pawtucket on the club and with Morales  on a rehab assignment. 

    Bottom line is Michael Young would help and a starting pitcher like Peavy or Cliff Lee who Philadelphia would trade to dump off his contract. Again you have to give up something to get something. Remember Wyland, Kasson Gabbard they never made it at all after being dealt.



    exactly....peavy and rios? what kind of package would that take? and i would love to get lee...nava and carp will not cut it fulltime...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to mthomas43's comment:

    If only they knew which prospects were going to bust



    That would be an awesome super power to have.

     

    I view it like this prospects are like lottery tickets.  A low level prospect might have 1/10000 chance of being a star and a 1/10 chance of being a MLB player and 1/500 of being a star.  Maybe a top ten prospect has a 1/2 chance of being a MLB regular with a top teir talent guy like Bogaerts having a 1/2 chance of being an all star and 1/10 chance of being an MVP candidate.

    Of course some of these guys are going to go bust.  Maybe Henry Owens and Anthony Ranaudo do little to nothing but become succesful relievers but Allen Webster finds his control in 3 years and becomes a #1.

    All I know is right now the Sox hold a lot of Lottery tickets, and many of those tickets have much better odds because our farm system is as strong and as deep as I've seen in a long time.  The Dividends of holding onto those prospects is very likely going to be a few All STars that are cost controlled for years and some of them can still have good careers and contribute to a MLB team.  For Example Maybe Allen Webster never becomes a starter but becomes a very effective arm out of the pen for 5 years....there is still a LOT of value in that.  When you factor in the fact that Sox management is willing to spend up to the Luxury tax and this organization has all the makings of building a powerhouse for the next decade.

    If the Value is right, I Won't complain if the Sox have to give up some prospects if they get an Impact player back; the system is deep enough to absorb some losses.  But I will also be just as happy if Ben C. stands pat. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    Those numbers I picked were highly subjective, I pretty much made them up to make a point but it gave me some insight into what may a good topic to research.

    I want to see a list of players average WAR over a ten years span and classify them by prospect status. So for example someone might be able to say top ten Prospects as rated by baseball america on average produce a 3.2 WAR per season for ten years after their rookie season.  And perhaps Prospects who rank in the top ten average a 1.2 etc etc etc. 

    Also, it seems that the price to buy MLB ready talent is a little higher during the trade deadline than it is during the Winter.

    If we were going to trade prospects for a top tier starter, it might be easier to get more bang for our buck in September.

    Imagine if we could get a true young cost controlled ace to build around Xander Bogaerts for the next ten years????

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I want to see a list of players average WAR over a ten years span and classify them by prospect status.

     



    I think someone did something similar a few years ago. What they found I think was that top 30 hitters did better then pitchers and pitchers did pretty well in the 30-100 range. Vague memory. Not sure if I am remembering correctly. Anyway, if I am right, that means we probably shouldn't trade any of our top guys because the hitters are top 30 types and the pitchers are in the lower half of the top 100. Good news for us if I am correct.

     

    But I love your idea. What is the average WAR of different level prospects and compare that to players being discussed in trades. Think you should do just their first 7 years though, since that is the control time. And one key to all that is the value of the contract. I like Lee a lot, but he is the highest paid player in baseball. Not sure I would even sign him to his contract if he was a free agent, let alone give the Phillies any prospects. Its all about WAR per dollar.

     

    One thing I am noticing is that it seems that the cost in prospects is a bit higher in trades then it was say 3 years ago.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

     

     

         This season is what it is. Unfortunately, the Sox have suffered a ton of injuries to their pitching staff. Without a healthy Clay Buchholtz, the Sox are toast, no matter who they might acquire through trade. If they can add a decent relief pitcher for a song, fine. Otherwise, they are much better off holding onto their prospects, and making due with what they have.

     

     

    Agree, however I would move Middlebrooks in the right deal in a heartbeat !!



         Who would you guys want in return for Middlebrooks? Despite his woes this season, I'd hate to see him go. He had such a promising start in the Bigs last year...and the Sox need a third basemen, unless they plan to play Bogaerts there.

     

     

     




    Id like them to work with Middy and at least bring his value up. They would be selling extremely low on him and I just dont think its worth it IMO.

     

    We have WMB, Bogey, and Cecchini who can all play on the team at either 1b/3b/LF. I wouldnt trade any of them right now.

    Unless you were offered the Moon, then maybe one of them. But it would have to be a "blow you out of the water" type deal. I dont see that happening.



    I agree. They would be selling low on him plus I see him as their 1baseman next season.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    I want to see a list of players average WAR over a ten years span and classify them by prospect status.

     

     



    I think someone did something similar a few years ago. What they found I think was that top 30 hitters did better then pitchers and pitchers did pretty well in the 30-100 range. Vague memory. Not sure if I am remembering correctly. Anyway, if I am right, that means we probably shouldn't trade any of our top guys because the hitters are top 30 types and the pitchers are in the lower half of the top 100. Good news for us if I am correct.

     

     

    But I love your idea. What is the average WAR of different level prospects and compare that to players being discussed in trades. Think you should do just their first 7 years though, since that is the control time. And one key to all that is the value of the contract. I like Lee a lot, but he is the highest paid player in baseball. Not sure I would even sign him to his contract if he was a free agent, let alone give the Phillies any prospects. Its all about WAR per dollar.

     

    One thing I am noticing is that it seems that the cost in prospects is a bit higher in trades then it was say 3 years ago.



    I saw someone post something related on the Soxprospects forum about a year ago but for the life of me I have no idea who did it; this might be a job for Google when I get some more free time.  I find it kind of interesting that the 30-100 pitchers did better.  I would like to see all the data, maybe there was just more pitchers that fell between the 30 range.  I'd like to see what the top pitching prospects did.  Maybe they are just more boom and bust.  

    It seems like the Sox have really focused on building up their minor league talent over the last several years.  They invested heavily the last several years at brining amauter talent in and it's starting to show.  What the Red Sox do at the trade deadline may really show how much they value their prospects.  I do think our system is deep enough to spare a few guys for a Peavy type in such a way that we still have a pretty deep system.  So I won't complain if it happens but personally I hope the Sox really place a high value on their prospects.  

    To put it more blunt if I wake up August 1st and Barnes and Ranaudo are traded I won't cry about it.....but if they trade Bogaerts then some people may very well see a grown man cry in my town. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    As a rule, I don't like trading young prospects for older veterans. I also do not like trading promising position players for pitchers. ( I think K.C. will regret trading Myers for Shields ). However, if you are looking to acquire an impact player, you have to give up something of value in return. This is where player evaluation comes in. It can be tricky. Without having seen much of our young prospects, and just going by scouting reports and minor league numbers, I think we have maybe six or seven that we should be very reluctant to part with. Beyond that, you have to roll the dice a bit if you want to be aggressive at the deadline. It can be a fine line between aggressiveness and panic. I think Ben has shown that he is not prone to panic. Should be an interesting next few days. One thing we can be sure of;  no matter what Ben does or doesn't do , there are sure to be some unhappy campers. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    As a rule, I don't like trading young prospects for older veterans. I also do not like trading promising position players for pitchers. ( I think K.C. will regret trading Myers for Shields ). However, if you are looking to acquire an impact player, you have to give up something of value in return. This is where player evaluation comes in. It can be tricky. Without having seen much of our young prospects, and just going by scouting reports and minor league numbers, I think we have maybe six or seven that we should be very reluctant to part with. Beyond that, you have to roll the dice a bit if you want to be aggressive at the deadline. It can be a fine line between aggressiveness and panic. I think Ben has shown that he is not prone to panic. Should be an interesting next few days. One thing we can be sure of;  no matter what Ben does or doesn't do , there are sure to be some unhappy campers. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



         The bottom line is that I don't see the acquistion of any available veteran as getting the Sox over the top. For this reason, I'd keep the prospects. I'd rather see the Sox go with what they have. Who knows, maybe a couple of their Triple A guys can help out immediately?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    As a rule, I don't like trading young prospects for older veterans. I also do not like trading promising position players for pitchers. ( I think K.C. will regret trading Myers for Shields ). However, if you are looking to acquire an impact player, you have to give up something of value in return. This is where player evaluation comes in. It can be tricky. Without having seen much of our young prospects, and just going by scouting reports and minor league numbers, I think we have maybe six or seven that we should be very reluctant to part with. Beyond that, you have to roll the dice a bit if you want to be aggressive at the deadline. It can be a fine line between aggressiveness and panic. I think Ben has shown that he is not prone to panic. Should be an interesting next few days. One thing we can be sure of;  no matter what Ben does or doesn't do , there are sure to be some unhappy campers. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



         The bottom line is that I don't see the acquistion of any available veteran as getting the Sox over the top. For this reason, I'd keep the prospects. I'd rather see the Sox go with what they have. Who knows, maybe a couple of their Triple A guys can help out immediately?

     



    you don't think trading for Ervin Santana and Hochevar puts us over the top?? That would probably cost us Ranaudo and another mid level prospect like De La Torre. I'd make that trade in a heartbeat

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to mef429's comment:



    you don't think trading for Ervin Santana and Hochevar puts us over the top??

     

    RESPONSE: No, I don't. Will acquiring them make the Sox better? Possibly. But, there's no way that acquiring these two pitchers puts the Sox over the top. This team lacks the ace starter that a championship team must have, lacks a dependable closer, lacks bullpen depth, and badly needs a righthanded power bat in the middle of it's line-up.  

    That would probably cost us Ranaudo and another mid level prospect like De La Torre. I'd make that trade in a heartbeat

     

    RESPONSE: Aren't you assuming quite a bit, here? In any event, here's some scouting reports on Ranaudo:

    A huge beast of a pitcher, the six foot eight Anthony Ranaudo is one of many premium righthanded arms from the 2010 Amateur Draft. The LSU alum works with a mid-90's fastball on an (obviously) downward plane, mixing in an average curve and changeup that will have to improve before he's MLB-worthy. There are still some concerns with his mechanics, as is often the case with tall pitchers, and his slightly jerky delivery worries a few scouts. Despite those concerns, though, Ranaudo is a pitcher with significant upside who should be worth the XL risk the Sox took on him./2013

     http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2689 

    Here's more:

    Anthony Ranaudo, RHP

    2013 Stats: 8-2, 91.0 IP, 2.67 ERA, 1.044 WHIP, 9.3 K/9, 3.2 BB/9 (16 GS, Portland)

    Anthony Ranaudo’s time in pro ball has been anything but easy. In his first full season, Ranaudo’s work was adequate, but not nearly at the level expected from the former first-round pick. His 2012 season was no better, as he was often injured, and ineffective when he was on the mound.

    These days, things are a lot different. As evidenced by his above stat line, Ranaudo has finally unlocked his potential with an epic breakout season.

    Ranaudo has always had dominant stuff. He features a low- to mid-90s fastball with decent movement and heavy sink. Ranaudo also relies on a plus curveball that is the best in the Red Sox system. He also features a changeup that has some potential, but lacks deception and fade.

    Ranaudo’s physical stature is also a huge part of his game. His 6’7” frame gives him a very effective downward plane with his heater. He posts strong ground-ball splits as a result. His mound presence is off the charts, but he needs to work on mixing pitches more effectively.

    His biggest setback in the past has been his weak fastball command. However, he has vastly improved in this area in 2013, leading to spectacular results.

    When Ranaudo was drafted, his brilliant curveball and solid fastball gave him the potential to become a staff ace. However, his changeup has not developed as hoped. While he may never lead Boston’s staff some day, his brilliant results this year suggest that he will easily become an outstanding midrotation starter.

    Needless to say, he is a very worthy member of the U.S. team in the Futures Game. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1701598-scouting-reports-for-red-sox-prospects-in-the-2013-futures-game    

         The bottom line here my friend, is why trade such a prospect for mediocre stop-gap talent, that's not good enough to get this team over the hump?      

     

     

     




     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    Why are teams selling. Ex.why would KC trade Hochevar? Salary relief, bad teammate, lost his stuff?

    And why would we trade a Ranaudo--unproven , top draft choice with up side, controlled for a few years.

    Hoch has found a niche as a reliever and his stuff works better there than in the rotation--the same with Chen. Take your choice--who can perform better under the bright lights of Boston--I think Chen but I like Hoch. Ben you make the call.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    Bleacher report is as about reliable as this forum.  I like the Soxprospects scouting reports because they have more boots and eyes on our prospects than almost anyone. Here's what they have to say about Ranaudo:

     

    Scouting ReportWas considered the top pitcher in the entire draft class and the second-best overall draft prospect heading into the 2010 season after going 12-3 with a 3.04 ERA and striking out 159 batters in 124.1 innings in 2009 while leading LSU to a national championship. Fell to Red Sox due to forearm injury. Has frame to withstand the rigors of starting at the professional level. High 3/4 arm slot. Fastball sits 92-94 mph and tops out at 95 mph. Fringe-average-to-average fastball command. Can open shoulder early, which leads to reduced command in spells. Inconsistent downward leverage. Arm drag reduces velocity and ability to stay on top of the ball. Has struggled keeping delivery consistent. 78-82 mph hammer curveball grades as plus. Tight rotation and excellent depth through the strike zone. Able to bury out of the strike zone or drop it in for a strike. Outstanding feel for his curveball. Future swing-and-miss pitch at major league level. Below-average 81-83 mph changeup. Doesn’t always finish delivery on changeup leaving it up in the zone where it is very flat and hittable. Offering is improving, but still inconsistent from outing to outing. Changeup has average potential, but lack of development with pitch could push him to a bullpen role. Appears to over-think things. Needs to be more loose. Still learning to incorporate lower half into pitching mechanics. Historivally has some rigidness in delivery, which has tended to wear him out after laboring. Third starter ceiling at major-league level

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:



    you don't think trading for Ervin Santana and Hochevar puts us over the top??

     

    RESPONSE: No, I don't. Will acquiring them make the Sox better? Possibly. But, there's no way that acquiring these two pitchers puts the Sox over the top. This team lacks the ace starter that a championship team must have, lacks a dependable closer, lacks bullpen depth, and badly needs a righthanded power bat in the middle of it's line-up.

    E Santana is signed through 2013 (perfect), had an ERA a shade over 3 (perfect), a WHIP a shade over 1 (perfect), and an ERA+ of 133 (perfect). Hochevar has an ERA of 1.89 and WHIP UNDER .900!!

    A rotation of Doobie, Lackey, Santana and Buch/Lester could take us far in the PS. Right now there are two guys in our rotation who are pitching like aces this season. The requirement for a ring isn't that you have a true ace on your team. You just need A pitcher on your staff to get hot and pitch like an ace during the PS. Easier said than done but i think Doobie and Lackey could lead us on a deep run right now. throw buch into the mix with Santana as a #4 and that rotation looks VERY strong. Allah help our opposition if Lester turns the corner too..... Hochevar helps anchor our BP along with Uehara, Taz and Breslow. I'm not worried about the offense because there is nothing to worry about. They might pick up an extra bat at the deadline just so all of their bases are covered but i definitely don't think they make a play for a power bat.

    If the sox made a deal for Santana and Hochevar i think that would put us way over the top. It Fills out 2 biggest needs  with proven MLB talent. in exchange for a prospect who frankly has been disappointing (see below)

    That would probably cost us Ranaudo and another mid level prospect like De La Torre. I'd make that trade in a heartbeat

     

    RESPONSE: Aren't you assuming quite a bit, here? In any event, here's some scouting reports on Ranaudo:

    Yeah it is an assumption. They could give up more or less but this is just my view of what i would give up to bolster our team and make the push.

    A huge beast of a pitcher, the six foot eight Anthony Ranaudo is one of many premium righthanded arms from the 2010 Amateur Draft. The LSU alum works with a mid-90's fastball on an (obviously) downward plane, mixing in an average curve and changeup that will have to improve before he's MLB-worthy. There are still some concerns with his mechanics, as is often the case with tall pitchers, and his slightly jerky delivery worries a few scouts. Despite those concerns, though, Ranaudo is a pitcher with significant upside who should be worth the XL risk the Sox took on him./2013

     http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2689 

         The bottom line here my friend, is why trade such a prospect for mediocre stop-gap talent, that's not good enough to get this team over the hump?      

    I'm not very high on Ranaudo. He has good upside but has been a pretty big disappointment since he moved up to high A ball. Granted, he's also been injured since then so a little benefit of the doubt is needed. But still, the pitching down on the farm is stacked. Not all of them are going to be productive ML'ers. Gotta try and figure out who's a future bust and sell high on them. This is the perfect time to do that with Ranaudo. Who i think will flame out. At the end of the day you're still giving up unproven talent for established ML'ers. Whether you agree or not that Santana/Hochevar would put us over the top at the very least they make us better and improve our chances at making a run. So i'll say it again. I make that deal yesterday!




     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Bleacher report is as about reliable as this forum.  I like the Soxprospects scouting reports because they have more boots and eyes on our prospects than almost anyone. Here's what they have to say about Ranaudo:



    hey Hugh, would you trade Ranaudo+ for E Santana and Hochevar?

    you know our prospects value more than pretty much anyone on the forum. do you make that deal?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    Depends what the plus is.  I like bundling up Hochevar with Santana, but I all comes down to who goes for him.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Depends what the plus is.  I like bundling up Hochevar with Santana, but I all comes down to who goes for him.



    in my earlier post i speculated that it would be a 40man roster crunch guy like De la Torre so let's stick with that.

    Would you give up Ranaudo and De la Torre for Santana and Hochevar?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    Why are teams selling. Ex.why would KC trade Hochevar? Salary relief, bad teammate, lost his stuff?

    And why would we trade a Ranaudo--unproven , top draft choice with up side, controlled for a few years.

    Hoch has found a niche as a reliever and his stuff works better there than in the rotation--the same with Chen. Take your choice--who can perform better under the bright lights of Boston--I think Chen but I like Hoch. Ben you make the call.



         Again...the question is not whether a guy like Hoch or Chen will help the team. Either  should. The question is, "Do either of these guys make the Sox better than the Rays, and/or the Detroit Tigers"? In my view, the answer is, No! That being the case, why trade away a good pitching prospect for mediocre, stop-gap talent, that won't lead you to winning a cup of coffee, let alone a championship. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

    Why are teams selling. Ex.why would KC trade Hochevar? Salary relief, bad teammate, lost his stuff?

    And why would we trade a Ranaudo--unproven , top draft choice with up side, controlled for a few years.

    Hoch has found a niche as a reliever and his stuff works better there than in the rotation--the same with Chen. Take your choice--who can perform better under the bright lights of Boston--I think Chen but I like Hoch. Ben you make the call.

     



         Again...the question is not whether a guy like Hoch or Chen will help the team. Either  should. The question is, "Do either of these guys make the Sox better than the Rays, and/or the Detroit Tigers"? In my view, the answer is, No! That being the case, why trade away a good pitching prospect for mediocre, stop-gap talent, that won't lead you to winning a cup of coffee, let alone a championship. 

     



    If that's how you see it then i guess we're done here. The banter was nice while it lasted.

    before i depart let me just say this:

    The rays are not going to play .900 baseball the rest of the season. dont forget that until 3 days ago they were looking up at us in the standings (over 100 games too!) and have been playing way over their head the past 2 weeks. The Rays will come back down to earth. and detroit?? we're already a  better team overall than them. they need BP help twice as much as we do and possibly another starter.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to mthomas43's comment:

    If only they knew which prospects were going to bust



    Oh so right!

    On trading Middlebrooks: In theory, his "value" should be the same to another Gm as to us. Perhaps a GM with no future outlook at 3B might value him more than us.

    I never get why people say something like this, "we should not trade Middlebrooks while his stock is low...". His "stock" is his value at this point in his career. He's just a big a risk to us as to another team. Yes, we run the risk of trading him and he becomes great, but the chance that happens is equal with us as the next guy and that chance is basically what his value is right now to us and to others.

    Since we have Bogaerts and Cecchini, I'd say our advanced future at 3B looks better than many teams right now, so a guy like Middlebrooks may be of more value to another team than to us... a rebuilding team.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    If that's how you see it then i guess we're done here. The banter was nice while it lasted.

     

    before i depart let me just say this:

    The rays are not going to play .900 baseball the rest of the season. dont forget that until 3 days ago they were looking up at us in the standings (over 100 games too!) and have been playing way over their head the past 2 weeks. The Rays will come back down to earth. and detroit?? we're already a  better team overall than them. they need BP help twice as much as we do and possibly another starter

     

    Even if Buchholtz comes back strong, which 4 starters would you bet on come playoff time?

     

    Detroit: Verlander, Scherzer, A Sanchez, Fister/Porcello

    TBR: Price, Moore, Hellickson, Archer/Cobb

    Boston: Buch, Lackey, Lester, Doubront/Dempster

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    Depends what the plus is.  I like bundling up Hochevar with Santana, but I all comes down to who goes for him.

     



    in my earlier post i speculated that it would be a 40man roster crunch guy like De la Torre so let's stick with that.

     

    Would you give up Ranaudo and De la Torre for Santana and Hochevar?



    In a heartbeat but KC would never make that trade.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mef429's comment:



    you don't think trading for Ervin Santana and Hochevar puts us over the top??

     

    RESPONSE: No, I don't. Will acquiring them make the Sox better? Possibly. But, there's no way that acquiring these two pitchers puts the Sox over the top. This team lacks the ace starter that a championship team must have, lacks a dependable closer, lacks bullpen depth, and badly needs a righthanded power bat in the middle of it's line-up.

    E Santana is signed through 2013 (perfect), had an ERA a shade over 3 (perfect), a WHIP a shade over 1 (perfect), and an ERA+ of 133 (perfect). Hochevar has an ERA of 1.89 and WHIP UNDER .900!!

    A rotation of Doobie, Lackey, Santana and Buch/Lester could take us far in the PS. Right now there are two guys in our rotation who are pitching like aces this season. The requirement for a ring isn't that you have a true ace on your team. You just need A pitcher on your staff to get hot and pitch like an ace during the PS. Easier said than done but i think Doobie and Lackey could lead us on a deep run right now. throw buch into the mix with Santana as a #4 and that rotation looks VERY strong. Allah help our opposition if Lester turns the corner too..... Hochevar helps anchor our BP along with Uehara, Taz and Breslow. I'm not worried about the offense because there is nothing to worry about. They might pick up an extra bat at the deadline just so all of their bases are covered but i definitely don't think they make a play for a power bat.

    If the sox made a deal for Santana and Hochevar i think that would put us way over the top. It Fills out 2 biggest needs  with proven MLB talent. in exchange for a prospect who frankly has been disappointing (see below)

    That would probably cost us Ranaudo and another mid level prospect like De La Torre. I'd make that trade in a heartbeat

     

    RESPONSE: Aren't you assuming quite a bit, here? In any event, here's some scouting reports on Ranaudo:

    Yeah it is an assumption. They could give up more or less but this is just my view of what i would give up to bolster our team and make the push.

    A huge beast of a pitcher, the six foot eight Anthony Ranaudo is one of many premium righthanded arms from the 2010 Amateur Draft. The LSU alum works with a mid-90's fastball on an (obviously) downward plane, mixing in an average curve and changeup that will have to improve before he's MLB-worthy. There are still some concerns with his mechanics, as is often the case with tall pitchers, and his slightly jerky delivery worries a few scouts. Despite those concerns, though, Ranaudo is a pitcher with significant upside who should be worth the XL risk the Sox took on him./2013

     http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2689 

         The bottom line here my friend, is why trade such a prospect for mediocre stop-gap talent, that's not good enough to get this team over the hump?      

    I'm not very high on Ranaudo. He has good upside but has been a pretty big disappointment since he moved up to high A ball. Granted, he's also been injured since then so a little benefit of the doubt is needed. But still, the pitching down on the farm is stacked. Not all of them are going to be productive ML'ers. Gotta try and figure out who's a future bust and sell high on them. This is the perfect time to do that with Ranaudo. Who i think will flame out. At the end of the day you're still giving up unproven talent for established ML'ers. Whether you agree or not that Santana/Hochevar would put us over the top at the very least they make us better and improve our chances at making a run. So i'll say it again. I make that deal yesterday!

     



    RESPONSE: I've read that Ranaudo is having a break-out season in Portland. That said, getting those two veteran pitchers should make the Sox better. But, does the acquisition of these guys make the Sox better than the Rays, and/or the Detroit Tigers? If not, them why risk a good prospect to acquire such stop-gap, mediocre talent...that will not lead to the team winning the AL East, or the AL championship?

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Sox Should Not Trade Prospects

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    If that's how you see it then i guess we're done here. The banter was nice while it lasted.

     

    before i depart let me just say this:

    The rays are not going to play .900 baseball the rest of the season. dont forget that until 3 days ago they were looking up at us in the standings (over 100 games too!) and have been playing way over their head the past 2 weeks. The Rays will come back down to earth. and detroit?? we're already a  better team overall than them. they need BP help twice as much as we do and possibly another starter

     

    Even if Buchholtz comes back strong, which 4 starters would you bet on come playoff time?

     

    Detroit: Verlander, Scherzer, A Sanchez, Fister/Porcello

    TBR: Price, Moore, Hellickson, Archer/Cobb

    Boston: Buch, Lackey, Lester, Doubront/Dempster

     

     

    Sox4ever



    Buch, Lackey, Doobie would be my top 3 with Lester/demp getting the 4th spot. Of course that could change between now and the end of the season if Lester turns the corner and lackey or doobs falters a bit.

    but with the way Buch, Lackey and Doobie have been pitching this season i think they can match up to any other 3 man rotation in the MLB and still have a good chance of taking a 7 game series. That's just based on the pitching matchups too. Factor in our lineup and our chances get even better. Of course the BP as it stands now isn't doing much to help our chances but it could be much better by the time october rolls around.

     
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