Sox Sign Drew

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    OK....

     

    I'm really getting close to the WTF is Ben doing camp.

     

    This is really getting sad!  $9.5 million for this schmuck???  Are you kidding me??????????

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    Wait, they gave Drew 10 mil?  Ridiculous!  I assumed they gave him say 3 or 4mil . . . Incomprehensible!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    the obvious better plan would have been to sign younger players and build in a real, organic way, but they'd never do that because they'd be too afraid the fan base wouldn't accept another season below .500 with them spending well below their capability. in order to do this you've got to take the hit for a few years with a roster that include players who are growing on the job, ala oakland and other small market teams. just not the way it works here and probably never will be. 

    I disagree. I think our fans are smarter than this. I also think plans such as what I outlined would have made us vastly better in 2013 anyways, and with younger players, our outlook would have been so much better.

    Maybe I am over-rating our fan's intelligence.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    Maybe I am over-rating our fan's intelligence.

    No, you are over-rating your own intelligence.



    From the guy that has read my posts and thinks I am supporting all of Ben's signings.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    Every day we get another strange move by the Sox. 

     

    it is hard to imagine that Drew is a better option than Iggy or Boagerts - but the obsession with overpaying for mediocre veterans who have NO CHANCE to perform above mediocre continues unabated.

    ANYTHING to avoid playing the young guys.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    heres my problem with the moves ben has made, after last season the sox should have gone one of two ways 1) reload and build a playoff caliber team 2) rebuild, play the prospects and stay young with a few vets to help the youngsters. Ben has muddled in the middle, which is the worst thing u can do. he has signed middle of the road players, the majority of which are on the decline to relatively short term deals. i was under the impression that the reason why we dumped beckett, crawford, and gonzalez was to get a fresh start and make better decisions. yet ben goes out and signes victorino for 3 years at more than he worth, same goes for napoli (but it remains to be seen if the deal gets done), gomes for double what hes worth (i still dont get the gomes signing) dempster who got rocked in the AL, daivd ross (do we really need another catcher) though he is an ok back up, uehera (perhaps bens only good signing) and now stephen drew. (do we really need a ss? just give iggy a chance and save 10 mill, but really this ones not a huge deal as its a 1 yr deal). for the price of victorino (13 mill) gomes (5 mill) and ross (3.25 mill), we could have signed hamilton. ellsbury, hamilton, kalish looks alot better than ellsbury victorino gomes. Its poor decisions like that that lead the sox to last seasons implosion and the continued struggled going forward. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    im shocked that ben hasnt made a trade yet, we still have 3 catchers and salty seems like the odd man out, when is ben going to deal one? (obviously ross is getting dealt). Kendry Morales is on the market, and could be in for a big season. just looking at his numbers before his unlucky leg injury, he is a middle of the order bat and its safe to assume that he wont cost a ton in a trade. forget napoli and his hip issues, deal for morales. how bout some pitching? do they really think dempster is going to turn the staff around? hes a number 3 tops, but more like a 4. we have barnes, webster, de la rosa coming through the pipeline (de la rosa is already major league ready, was hoping he would get a shot to crack the rotation, barnes will likely need one more year in the minors, and webster will likely be  mid season call up. now my question is, what happens if say de la rosa and webster look really good during spring training, then what? we have lackey and dempster filling two rotation spots, so how do u make room for them? this team will not succeed until they bring in people who know what they are doing. the fo constantly make mistakes and obvious ones at that.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    Unless the protests are pre-signing and the denouncement is clear, you support "Ben's signings.

    I said to avoid Dumpster and Shane and Drew, before the fact, like one should avoid the plague. You, on the other hand, would never be accused of denouncing these market offers.




    Nice redefinition of support moron. Maybe you really are a shyster.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    Unless the protests are pre-signing and the denouncement is clear, you support "Ben's signings.

    I said to avoid Dumpster and Shane and Drew, before the fact, like one should avoid the plague. You, on the other hand, would never be accused of denouncing these market offers.



    Again, your reading comprehension skills are sorely lacking. I couldn't be any clearer in my denouncement of every signingexcept Uehara. I said the Napoli signing was a good fit (before the physical), but that the "highest I woud go would be $33M/3, and I wouldn't bash Ben for $36M/3". If you could read, you'd be able to infer that $39M/3 warrants bashing, and I have been highly critical of Ben's signings right down the line.

    Your requirements that denouncements must be made "pre-signing" means nothing to me. Everyone here, including you, knows I was for Iggy as our SS starting 2 years ago, and nothing has changed that position. I said the only high priced pitcher I'd be willing to overpay was Sanchez, not Dempster or Greinke. I said the Gomes signing was way too much, but he was cheaper than Ross. I have railed against the Victorino signing for days and days.

    Stop your lies. If you actually believe your own drivel, you are dumber than I imagined. If you don't believe your own drivel, you are a troll. Which one are you? 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    Heres my problem with the moves ben has made, after last season the sox should have gone one of two ways 1) reload and build a playoff caliber team 2) rebuild, play the prospects and stay young with a few vets to help the youngsters. Ben has muddled in the middle, which is the worst thing u can do. 

    Totally agree. Playing it half way is clearly the worst choice of all.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Heres my problem with the moves ben has made, after last season the sox should have gone one of two ways 1) reload and build a playoff caliber team 2) rebuild, play the prospects and stay young with a few vets to help the youngsters. Ben has muddled in the middle, which is the worst thing u can do. 

    Totally agree. Playing it half way is clearly the worst choice of all.




    I agree, but is that really what they are doing?  They have traded no prospects, have given up no draft picks and all contracts are 1-3 years.  Had there been more than two top class FAs (and they are both damaged goods in some ways) they probably would have bid for them.  And the winter isn't over yet....in fact winter hasn't started yet!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Heres my problem with the moves ben has made, after last season the sox should have gone one of two ways 1) reload and build a playoff caliber team 2) rebuild, play the prospects and stay young with a few vets to help the youngsters. Ben has muddled in the middle, which is the worst thing u can do. 

    Totally agree. Playing it half way is clearly the worst choice of all.




    I agree, but is that really what they are doing?  They have traded no prospects, have given up no draft picks and all contracts are 1-3 years.  Had there been more than two top class FAs (and they are both damaged goods in some ways) they probably would have bid for them.  And the winter isn't over yet....in fact winter hasn't started yet!



    Yes- half way.

    1) They have kept the prosepcts (not shot it out for a ring in 2013). Help future.

    2) Signed mediocre FAs that do not help our future. 

     

    Nothing we did helpwed out future.

    Nothing we did made us a legitimate contenders in 2013.

     

    Halfway.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    Heres my problem with the moves ben has made, after last season the sox should have gone one of two ways 1) reload and build a playoff caliber team 2) rebuild, play the prospects and stay young with a few vets to help the youngsters. Ben has muddled in the middle, which is the worst thing u can do. 

    Totally agree. Playing it half way is clearly the worst choice of all.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree, but is that really what they are doing?  They have traded no prospects, have given up no draft picks and all contracts are 1-3 years.  Had there been more than two top class FAs (and they are both damaged goods in some ways) they probably would have bid for them.  And the winter isn't over yet....in fact winter hasn't started yet!

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes- half way.

    1) They have kept the prosepcts (not shot it out for a ring in 2013). Help future.

    2) Signed mediocre FAs that do not help our future. 

     

    Nothing we did helpwed out future.

    Nothing we did made us a legitimate contenders in 2013.

     

    Halfway.

    [/QUOTE]


    We seem to have different viewpoints this week.  I would say

    1.  the Sox buttressed their future by not trading prospects, giving up draft picks or getting locked into long-term contracts; but meanwhile
    2. they wanted a reasonably competetive team on the field that has a shot at the playoffs which they now have...assuming a few things fall back into place e.g. Lester returns, Lackey recovers to be a decent 3/4 starter, overall health improves and the bullpen pieces work out again.

    I think you have presented a number of decent ideas over the past few months, but none will bring in the ace/nbr 1/stud SP I think they need most....because none are available.

     

     

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to bt33's comment:

    it is true the crawford deal was terrible from the start - just like the lugo deal, the matusaka, lackey, and jd drew deals were, but it's also true that crawford was for 7 @ 142 and this is 1 @ 9.5. the point might be that the sox are overpaying for a bunch of mediocre talent, which is hard to dispute, but the impact of these "bad" signings cannot be compared to the kind of huge, colossal mistakes that crippled the franchise. you can completely disagree with the red sox purported philsophy of sorts of doing shorter term FA contracts (with a premium added for fewer years) but as walter in the big lebowski said, "say what you want about the tenets of national socialism dude, at least it's an ethos." 



    I would probably agree that $142M of bad money (money spent on crahp) spread over 7 years may be worse than $160M+ spreead out over 3 years to 8 players, but come on, we are spending about $77M this year on this... 

    $39M/3 Victorino

    $39M/3 Napoli

    $26.5M/2 Dempster 

    $26M/2 Papi 

    $10M/2 Gomes

    $9.5M/1 S Drew

    $6.2M/2 D Ross

    $4.25M/1 Uehara

    Yeah, it's only "short term", but in 2014 we will be paying about $60M for SV/MN/DO/RD/JG/DR. That's an average of $10M per scrub.




    you do realize that Dempster, Victorino, Napoli, and Dempster have all made teh all-star team within the last 3 years , right?>

    Moon, we brough in very solid MLB players.  Dont let this board jade you.  Most people hating our acquisitions hate them for one reason.  They love watching homegrown youngsters come into their own.  They dont hate the moves for baseball reasons.  They hate them because they would rather watch prospects.

    This isnt crap.  Its a bunch of very good players.  Its just that those players are over 30.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    We have good news and bad news.   First , the bad news : Ben is signing a bunch of ham and eggers to excessively high contracts .  The good news :  They are not long contracts.




    Which was the plan all along. Not sure why some here are surprised. Not completely thrilled about some names, but I know the guys we did sign will play the game hard and the right way. Ill go into the season with mild expectations, knowing that they are at least headed in the right direction.



    It should be considered that if Victorino, Napoli and Drew prove that 2012 was due to injury and they are still the players we saw from 2009-2011 (or 2008-2010 in Drew's case), then these players suddenly have significant trade value and can be flipped.

    If you sign someone to a market competitive deal, that person has par value.  Desperate buyers flip good prospects for par value players all year.

    If we are in fourth place at the deadline next year, but Drew is batting .260 with avg D and a pro-rated 15 HR's, he does have trade value.  If VIC is batting .270, playing GG D, has a pro-rated 30 SB and 15HRs at the deadline, he does have trade value.

    Its possible that Ben is stockpiling players that he think will rebound w/ a plan to flip these players (if the team falls out of contention early).

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Heres my problem with the moves ben has made, after last season the sox should have gone one of two ways 1) reload and build a playoff caliber team 2) rebuild, play the prospects and stay young with a few vets to help the youngsters. Ben has muddled in the middle, which is the worst thing u can do. 

    Totally agree. Playing it half way is clearly the worst choice of all.



    I agree that playing it half-way is not going to get you anywhere.  However, I disagree that we are playing it half way.  We are going for it.  This is our last year w/ a core of Ells, Ortiz, Lester, Buchh, Pedey.  We have Middlebrooks and Doubie on rookie deals.  Ben thinks that there is a solid group here and is trying to supplement the talent already on roster in an attempt to grab a wildcard playoff spot.

    And once you get in, anything can happen.

    I think that everyone who is saying that we have no chance at making the playoffs in  2013 is overreacting.  Due to the new playoff format, teams w/ .500 records can get in w/ a late season push.

    We are much better than the As were last year.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    California Dreaming...Monday morning quarterback I know but wouldn't it have been nice if we had kept Marco Scutaro !!!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

    California Dreaming...Monday morning quarterback I know but wouldn't it have been nice if we had kept Marco Scutaro !!!




    And played him where? He can't play SS any more and Pedey is our 2nd baseman. Unless you want to bench Pedey for Scut.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    I agree that playing it half-way is not going to get you anywhere.  However, I disagree that we are playing it half way.  We are going for it.

    I disagree 100%. Non of these guys will take us over the top, and the combination of them all brings about half way there, in terms of winning in 2013, but 0% of the way towards being better in 2014 and beyond..

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

     

    you do realize that Dempster, Victorino, Napoli, and Dempster have all made teh all-star team within the last 3 years , right?>

    Moon, we brough in very solid MLB players.  Dont let this board jade you.  Most people hating our acquisitions hate them for one reason.  They love watching homegrown youngsters come into their own.  They dont hate the moves for baseball reasons.  They hate them because they would rather watch prospects.

    This isnt crap.  Its a bunch of very good players.  Its just that those players are over 30.

    [/QUOTE]

    2012   OPS+:


    SV    91

    MN   110

    SD   97

    The three above have been very good players in the past.

    Past Performance Does Not Predict Future Returns

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    In response to bigdog1's comment:

    smart move, if he has a huge year we will get compensation pick next year. 



    I think $9.5M is crazy, but I prefer this signing to SV and MN.   In 812 MLB games he is a below average hitting SS at 96 OPS+, and he has been very inconsistent.

    OPS+  '06   '07..... '12:    117    71    110   92   113    93   79

    If he has another 113 OPS+ and his D is at least a bit above average, he would net a compensation pick.   SV and MN are likely to be dead wood by their third years, but at  least Drew could pull a Beltre.    Delaying Iglesias's clock and hoping this fabled hand eye coordination tranfers to his batting in AAA in not the end of the world. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Sox Sign Drew

    they were once good players..remember youkilis? why is that so hard for folks to figure?

     
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