Sox vs Yanks Starters

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    MLB will not permit the Dodgers to trade Kemp or to put him on waivers. Odds are that he remains a Dodger until he's eligible for FA.

    MLB doesn't overrule the bankruptcy judge.

    MLB would not stop Kemp trade, assuming the return was MLB good and ready player or players.

    While they might keep Kemp one final year, rarely is a player not traded in this situation. LA can get more if they trade with a year to go than if they hope for a new CBA that gets nothing but a draft pick.

    Most people claimed the Padres would not trade AGon and would try for the playoffs, sell tickets and take the picks. Wrong.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]Yeah- everyone has been waiting for the Yankees rotation to implode. Unfortunately for you guys- it appears it won't happen. What you see is true- this is what the Yankees rotation is- and it's better than red sox have. Burnett is the only weak cog and I doubt he'll start in the playoffs if things stay as they are as of today. Now- that's not to say that injury won't get Colon again. Yet- there's no guarantee beckett won't get a blister that shuts him down.  It was obvious at the beginning of the season that the red sox rotation was flawed- lackey and matsuzaka were never going to cut it. bucholtz going down was just bad luck. At this point- if the Yanks and red sox meet in the ALCS, I give the edge to the Yankees.
    Posted by TexWrecks[/QUOTE]

    Nova's WHIP is higher than Burnett's and Hughes has only had at most two very good starts all year.  Colon went 4 2/3 innings tonight, giving up six hits and a walk, and had a 1.63 WHIP in July.  The Yankee rotation is bad and getting worse - the only question is whether the offense and bullpen have enough to compensate.


     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]MLB will not permit the Dodgers to trade Kemp or to put him on waivers. Odds are that he remains a Dodger until he's eligible for FA. MLB doesn't overrule the bankruptcy judge. MLB would not stop Kemp trade, assuming the return was MLB good and ready player or players. While they might keep Kemp one final year, rarely is a player not traded in this situation. LA can get more if they trade with a year to go than if they hope for a new CBA that gets nothing but a draft pick. Most people claimed the Padres would not trade AGon and would try for the playoffs, sell tickets and take the picks. Wrong.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]
    You probably know the legalities better than I, but the ownership situation is in limbo, and thus the financial resources of the organization.  The hope is that eventually -- within the next year -- the club will be owned by someone with deep enough pockets to sign players like Kemp and Eithier and Kershaw as the foundation of a renewal on the playing field. They are the only names, plus perhaps Billingsley, who have any drawing power. Even if one or more of them are replaced by ML-ready players, the marquee won't look the same. Even an owner with money bags will need to put people in the seats while trying to reclaim the organization from its current dismal state.
    In the end, who knows?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    Yeah- everyone has been waiting for the Yankees rotation to implode. Unfortunately for you guys- it appears it won't happen. What you see is true- this is what the Yankees rotation is- and it's better than red sox have.

    I agree, the Yanks staff has been better this year, so far, but do you really have confidence in Garcia for game 2 and Colon for game 3 in a short series?

    (I'm not saying I have any confidence in Bedard or Lackey in our game 3 either)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]Yeah- everyone has been waiting for the Yankees rotation to implode. Unfortunately for you guys- it appears it won't happen. What you see is true- this is what the Yankees rotation is- and it's better than red sox have. I agree, the Yanks staff has been better this year, so far, but do you really have confidence in Garcia for game 2 and Colon for game 3 in a short series? (I'm not saying I have any confidence in Bedard or Lackey in our game 3 either)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    No
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    expitch,

    2 problems. Kemp isn't going to want to be a part of a place with a giant cloud that won't go away before he becomes a FA. There is a bad history between Kemp and LA media and fans. The reason he recently said he like LA was too create as many larger city markets as he can.

    In the end, any large market team that offers Holliday range money and term can get Kemp before FA. The notion that you "wait a year and get him for free" is flawed on more than one level. It depends on the new CBA, and it also takes away the leverage that comes from having control over a player for a full season or more. In addition, getting Kemp a year earlier is quite important, given age and the current team needs.

    Why spend 6 to 8M on Ellsbury when the team is stuck with Crawford and has the greatest need for a profile like Kemp.

    Kemp's extention would wrap around like AGon's.

    2012  ~10  (final control year)  2 to 4M more than Ellsbury de minimus
    2013  18 to 20                       10 to 12 more than Ellsbury substantial but it's only one year and the team has a greater need for what Kemp brings
    2014  18 to 20       Ellsbury FA will likely find 12 to 15 base 

    Ellsbury is older than Kemp and would not cost much more except for one season.

    Kemp does everything Ellsbury does, steals, except Kemp is elite slugging OF v. LHP and an elite slugging player overall with a swing that is a perfect compliment and match to AGon.

    Frankly, Red Sox beat the Yankees for the division, with ease, had they acquired Kemp. 

    Crawford is Ellsbury, and a direct clash. Theo bought it and it can't be undone.

    This is the lineup that is obvious.

    L Crawford (Don't care about current career low season if Kemp steps in)
    R Pedroia
    L Agon
    R Kemp  (Party over, no offense to Youk)
    L Ortiz flip inverse v. LHP
    R Youk flip inverse LHP
    7-9 flip around catcher, Reddick/Kalish, SS 

    No smart GM would pay 12 to 14M for Ellsbury and trade the farm. Dodgers would take Ellsbury and 2 years and lower cost, plus 2 or 3 prospects near or with some positive small MLB service that are blocked for several years to come.
      
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtics1986. Show Celtics1986's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    Boston's potential playoff edge is Beckett as a number two starter, if he goes down, all bets are off. But right now, NY has no one to match up with Beckett at #2.

    New Yorks potential playoff edge is Roberston/Rivera in the 8th and 9th. You need the lead after 7 vs NY, that is a tough situation.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    softlaw's bogus position on Kemp--confirmed by the fact that no commentator anywhere has said he is available for any price or trade--is really based on his hatred for Ellsbury, nothing more. 

    The Sox are currently slumping at the plate, and in these hard times Ellsbury has delivered two walk off hits to salvage a split with the Indians and one of two rbi's last night in a very big game against the Yankees.   Last night the outfield delivered 5 hits and one rbi without that righty bat he covets. 

    Right now the Yankees pitching staff looks a lot better than ours. 

    Lester choked in a big game last night, pure and simple, and he has had control issues all year.  A strong lefty was the perfect antidote to the hot Yankees lineup, but Lester walked four guys, including two huge walks in the 6th inning Yankee rally.  He got a great gift when Cano hit that GIDP, then turned right around and gave up a hard hit double by Swisher to score the go ahead and eventual winning run.  

    Beckett and Beckett alone has consistently delivered the goods.  After those two, a big dropoff in starting talent:  Lackey, Wakefield, Bedard, Miller, Aceves, Weiland, et al. 

    And last night we saw a very good Yankees bullpen, starting with the lefty (Logan?) called in to face AGon with the bases loaded.  Talk about clutch.  First two pitches for strikes, one looking (fast ball right down the pike) and one swinging (same location, but a slider badly missed).  Then a K in three pitches off a slider in the dirt, Agon looking very foolish.  That was a bravura performance and a great move by Girardi, no way around it. 

    But the real truth is that, regardless of matchups, hitting stats, pitching stats, or whatever, the Yankees are hot right now and the Sox are cold.  It happens.  If it persists, the Sox could be in real trouble. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]softlaw's bogus position on Kemp--confirmed by the fact that no commentator anywhere has said he is available for any price or trade--is really based on his hatred for Ellsbury, nothing more.  The Sox are currently slumping at the plate, and in these hard times Ellsbury has delivered two walk off hits to salvage a split with the Indians and one of two rbi's last night in a very big game against the Yankees.   Last night the outfield delivered 5 hits and one rbi without that righty bat he covets.  Right now the Yankees pitching staff looks a lot better than ours.  Lester choked in a big game last night, pure and simple, and he has had control issues all year.  A strong lefty was the perfect antidote to the hot Yankees lineup, but Lester walked four guys, including two huge walks in the 6th inning Yankee rally.  He got a great gift when Cano hit that GIDP, then turned right around and gave up a hard hit double by Swisher to score the go ahead and eventual winning run.   Beckett and Beckett alone has consistently delivered the goods.  After those two, a big dropoff in starting talent:  Lackey, Wakefield, Bedard, Miller, Aceves, Weiland, et al.  And last night we saw a very good Yankees bullpen, starting with the lefty (Logan?) called in to face AGon with the bases loaded.  Talk about clutch.  First two pitches for strikes, one looking (fast ball right down the pike) and one swinging (same location, but a slider badly missed).  Then a K in three pitches off a slider in the dirt, Agon looking very foolish.  That was a bravura performance and a great move by Girardi, no way around it.  But the real truth is that, regardless of matchups, hitting stats, pitching stats, or whatever, the Yankees are hot right now and the Sox are cold.  It happens.  If it persists, the Sox could be in real trouble. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]
    Max, set aside the Ellsbury/Kemp issue because neither Boston nor LA is interested in that trade. Moreover, odds are that Kemp will be kept in LA by one means or other. 
    But softlaw has a point about a RHed bat.  Are you content with McDonald in a platoon or PH role?  If so, fine. Then move on.  I just have a feeling that between now and the end of the season the Sox will need a RHed hitter with a better chance of delivering than will McDonald.  The argument about Kemp has clouded the issue somewhat, and might even have prompted people to brush aside the need largely because softlaw harps on it. It's still there, IMO, even with Kemp removed from the equation.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    2 problems. Kemp isn't going to want to be a part of a place with a giant cloud that won't go away before he becomes a FA. There is a bad history between Kemp and LA media and fans. The reason he recently said he like LA was too create as many larger city markets as he can.

    You've all but called Boston the biggest racist city in the States. Why would Kemp want to come here? A call to barry Bonds would convince him: "anywhere but Boston."

    ... getting Kemp a year earlier is quite important, given age and the current team needs.

    Our "current needs" are not another OF'er. Haven't you noticed we have larger needs than upgrading one of our best positions on the team:

    1) Starting Pitcher
    2) SS
    3) Starting Pitcher
    4) Releif Pitcher
    5) Starting Pitcher
    6) RH'd Platoon OF'er
    ...
    20) Upgrade CF
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    Stats or no stats, it's Beckett and Lester and cross your fingers.     No real depth or high risers in the farm system to call upon.     The 3-4-5 starters require better than average run support.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from marstan. Show marstan's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    AFTER BECKETT AND LESTER, THE RED SOX PITCHING IS A
    WASTELAND.
    LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE !!
    WAKEFIELD...GIVES UP TOO MANY RUNS AND HIS KNUCKLER
    IS A LIABILITY IN LATE INNINGS BECAUSE OF PASSED BALLS
    AND WILD PITCHES. GOOD TEAMS FIGURE IT OUT.
    LACKEY...LOSES STUFF AFTER FIRST TIME AROUND ORDER. THE
    YANKS WILL KILL HIM. HAS A RAG ARM AND WAS A BAD SIGNING.
    MILLER....SIMPLY A TRIPLE A SCRUB'
    BEDARD.....A PICKUP NO ONE WANTED AND A MEDIOCRE ARM
    AND THAT'S IT FOLKS. THESE GUYS WILL BURN OUT OUR
    BULLPEN QUICKLY. WE HAVE TO EITHER BRING UP DOUBRONT
    IF HE IS ANY GOOD, MAKE ACEVES A STARTER, OR BUY SOME-
    ONE, AND IT IS TOO LATE FOR THAT, NOW.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    I agree, the Yanks staff has been better this year, so far, but do you really have confidence in Garcia for game 2 and Colon for game 3 in a short series---moonslav
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Based on their #s to date, yes, but that's not how it will shake out.. Do I have confidence in Nova and Hughes? If their current trend continues (why would it not?), absolutely. Get them to the 7th and throw Sori, Robertson, and Mariano.

    The Phillies are #1 on the mound, no doubt, but is any team in MLB throwing better than the Yankees 1st inning thru the 9th?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from marstan. Show marstan's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    I AGREE WITH THE POSTERS ABOUT THE RH POWER BAT.
    THE YANKS HAVE TEX, A ROD, SWISHER, POSADA, NUNEZ
    JETER AND MARTIN FROM THE RIGHT SIDE . WE HAVE
    AVILES, PEDROIA, MCDONALD,SALTY, VARITEK, AND YOUK
    ARGUMENT ENDED !!!! NO COMPARISON. WE LOSE ANY
    WAY YOU LOOK AT IT. EVEN LEFTY, THEY BEAT US.
    TEX, CANO, SWISHER, GRANDERSON...THEY WILL HAVE BETTER
    POWER NUMBERS [HRS] AT YEARS END. AND....THEY HAVE
    DEEPER PITCHING. ITS A NO BRAINER..YANKS WIN THE
    DIVISION BY 8-10 GAMES EASILY WHILE SOX STRUGGLE TO
    EVEN GET A WILD CARD WHICH IS BY NO MEANS A LOCK AT
    THIS POINT. WATCH TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO LACKEY
    TODAY. WE WILL BE 3 GAMES DOWN AFTER SUNDAY NIGHT
    AND SINKING FAST. DON'T FORGET, WAKE GOES MONDAY
    AGAINST SCOTT BAKER. THAT'S ANOTHER LOSS IN THE BOOKS.
    IT COULD BE FOUR OR FIVE GAMES DOWN BY MIDWEEK.
    DON'T GET MAD AT ME, SOX FANS....IT'S REALITY. THIS TEAM
    JUST AIN'T THAT GOOD, AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT,
    LOOK HOW WE STRUGGLED VS. THE KC ROYALS AND INDIANS
    WE WERE IN THE FIGHT OF OUR LIVES AGAINST TEAMS THAT
    NEVER USED TO CHALLENGE US. KC WAS A DIVISION CELLAR
    DWELLER FOR YEARS, AND THEY NEARLY KICKED OUR BUTT.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from )The-Babe(. Show )The-Babe('s posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]Boston's potential playoff edge is Beckett as a number two starter, if he goes down, all bets are off. But right now, NY has no one to match up with Beckett at #2. New Yorks potential playoff edge is Roberston/Rivera in the 8th and 9th. You need the lead after 7 vs NY, that is a tough situation.
    Posted by Celtics1986[/QUOTE]

    Ummm...that's great except that beckett is the red flops' number 1 starter.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters : Ummm...that's great except that beckett is the red flops' number 1 starter.
    Posted by )The-Babe([/QUOTE]

    Regardless of whether or not he's the #1 or #2, the Yankees still wouldn't have anyone to match up with the Sox #2 starter.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from )The-Babe(. Show )The-Babe('s posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters : Regardless of whether or not he's the #1 or #2, the Yankees still wouldn't have anyone to match up with the Sox #2 starter.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    Really? They seemed to match up OK last night against your number 2 starter.

    Think much before you post?

    Although it is nice to see you posting after a red flops loss, and extra points for posting after a sawx loss to the Yankees. I know it's not something you typically do, kudos to you mongo.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from )The-Babe(. Show )The-Babe('s posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters : Baseball reference has these updated numbers (now counting last night): http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=p&team=NYY&year=2011 Yankee Starters:' ERA:      3.63 WHIP:  1.287 OPS:       .706 Yankee relievers: WHIP: 1.286 OPS:    .655 Sox starters: 4.14 1.300 .718 Sox Relievers: 1.202 .662
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Ummmm...the numbers don't change that much after 1 game.

    Like I said, you had the numbers reversed.

    A lot of posters here just assume that all your stats are correct and take them as gospel. Others of us see you for what you are, a spin doctor.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from (The-Babe). Show (The-Babe)'s posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters : Regardless of whether or not he's the #1 or #2, the Yankees still wouldn't have anyone to match up with the Sox #2 starter.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    Really mongo? They seemed to match up OK against your #2 last night.

    Think much before you post?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters : Really mongo? They seemed to match up OK against your #2 last night. Think much before you post?
    Posted by (The-Babe)[/QUOTE]

    Oh so you'd take Colon over Lester?  Pretty homerish if that's the way you truly feel.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]whine whine whine
    Posted by LoveSox13[/QUOTE]

    Welcome back to the forum.  I was wondering where you've been for the last few months.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from (The-Babe). Show (The-Babe)'s posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters : Oh so you'd take Colon over Lester?  Pretty homerish if that's the way you truly feel.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    That's not what I said, mongo.

    But to believe that the Yanks can't beat your number two when we just did is pretty homerish. But, then again, I don't expect anything else from a fanboy like you.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters

    In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox vs Yanks Starters : That's not what I said, mongo. But to believe that the Yanks can't beat your number two when we just did is pretty homerish. But, then again, I don't expect anything else from a fanboy like you.
    Posted by (The-Babe)[/QUOTE]

    Answer my question.  Would you take Colon over Lester? 

    You're just dodging questions as you alway sdo.
     
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