sox wont carry three catchers

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

    I figured one of the two, a shortstop (Iggy or Ciriaco) and a bullpen/5th starter type (Dubront or Morales likely) would have been traded for a solid starter by now. Not an ace obviously, but that's a pretty solid package going anywhere, especially with Lava Iggy and Morales...young and fairly cheap.



    Youseriously think adding Iggy or Ciriaco to a Doubront or Morales will net a "solid starter"?

    I think it will take more than that.

     

    If we look at 2013 for what it truely is- a bridge to a brighter future, we should:

    1) Trade Ellsbury for the best prospect(s) possible.

    2) Trade or extend (at a reasonable cost) Salty. If we extend him, trade Lava.

    3) Trade any players we do not see as being part of this team in 2014 or 2015 and beyond.

    4) Possibly trade some quantity of players and/or prospects for more quality players under team control for several years or better prospects.

     

    If we look at 2013 with the hopes of surprising people and making a run for a ring, we should:

    1) Extend Salty and give him confidence. 

    2) Trade Lava and possible blocked prospects (not top 10) for more sure bet players that are also hopefully under team control for several years.

    3) Trade 2-3 marginal players for one higher quality player to improve the roster and to make room for Tazawa and other players that may be ready to make the jump this summer.

    4) Pick-up a quality 1B/corner OF'er who hits RHPs very well.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

     

    I figured one of the two, a shortstop (Iggy or Ciriaco) and a bullpen/5th starter type (Dubront or Morales likely) would have been traded for a solid starter by now. Not an ace obviously, but that's a pretty solid package going anywhere, especially with Lava Iggy and Morales...young and fairly cheap.

     



    Youseriously think adding Iggy or Ciriaco to a Doubront or Morales will net a "solid starter"?

     

    I think it will take more than that.

     

    If we look at 2013 for what it truely is- a bridge to a brighter future, we should:

    1) Trade Ellsbury for the best prospect(s) possible.

    2) Trade or extend (at a reasonable cost) Salty. If we extend him, trade Lava.

    3) Trade any players we do not see as being part of this team in 2014 or 2015 and beyond.

    4) Possibly trade some quantity of players and/or prospects for more quality players under team control for several years or better prospects.

     

    If we look at 2013 with the hopes of surprising people and making a run for a ring, we should:

    1) Extend Salty and give him confidence. 

    2) Trade Lava and possible blocked prospects (not top 10) for more sure bet players that are also hopefully under team control for several years.

    3) Trade 2-3 marginal players for one higher quality player to improve the roster and to make room for Tazawa and other players that may be ready to make the jump this summer.

    4) Pick-up a quality 1B/corner OF'er who hits RHPs very well.




    in both of those scenarios you have us trading lava... now im not against moving lava if we can get a decent return but if salty is extended then lava still has use to the organization outside of just being traded. Move him to 1B. We are slim on 1B prospects and with naps only with the team for 1 year we will be looking for a 1Bman next year. Move lava to 1B this year and get him ready to take over (production permitted) next season.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

     

    I figured one of the two, a shortstop (Iggy or Ciriaco) and a bullpen/5th starter type (Dubront or Morales likely) would have been traded for a solid starter by now. Not an ace obviously, but that's a pretty solid package going anywhere, especially with Lava Iggy and Morales...young and fairly cheap.

     



    Youseriously think adding Iggy or Ciriaco to a Doubront or Morales will net a "solid starter"?

     

    I think it will take more than that.

     

    If we look at 2013 for what it truely is- a bridge to a brighter future, we should:

    1) Trade Ellsbury for the best prospect(s) possible.

    2) Trade or extend (at a reasonable cost) Salty. If we extend him, trade Lava.

    3) Trade any players we do not see as being part of this team in 2014 or 2015 and beyond.

    4) Possibly trade some quantity of players and/or prospects for more quality players under team control for several years or better prospects.

     

    If we look at 2013 with the hopes of surprising people and making a run for a ring, we should:

    1) Extend Salty and give him confidence. 

    2) Trade Lava and possible blocked prospects (not top 10) for more sure bet players that are also hopefully under team control for several years.

    3) Trade 2-3 marginal players for one higher quality player to improve the roster and to make room for Tazawa and other players that may be ready to make the jump this summer.

    4) Pick-up a quality 1B/corner OF'er who hits RHPs very well.

     




    in both of those scenarios you have us trading lava... now im not against moving lava if we can get a decent return but if salty is extended then lava still has use to the organization outside of just being traded. Move him to 1B. We are slim on 1B prospects and with naps only with the team for 1 year we will be looking for a 1Bman next year. Move lava to 1B this year and get him ready to take over (production permitted) next season.

     



    The first option has us trading Salty and keeping lava as the most realistic way to brighten our future (trade old-keep young), but extending Salty also improves our future.

    I thought Lava might be our DH this year and 3rd catcher, but we extended Papi instead. I guess he may be converted to a 1Bman/emergency catcher player, but I'm not sold on his bat at this point.

    Of course, if we can't get worthy return for Lava, I want to keep him and hope for the best.

    To get better, a team needs to imrove its weak spot (ours is a top SP and a top 3/4 slot hitter). Usually, this is done by trading from areas of comparative strength or depth (ours is catching, bottom of rotation SPs, minor league SSs, and the bullpen).

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

     

    I figured one of the two, a shortstop (Iggy or Ciriaco) and a bullpen/5th starter type (Dubront or Morales likely) would have been traded for a solid starter by now. Not an ace obviously, but that's a pretty solid package going anywhere, especially with Lava Iggy and Morales...young and fairly cheap.

     



    Youseriously think adding Iggy or Ciriaco to a Doubront or Morales will net a "solid starter"?

     

    I think it will take more than that.

     

    If we look at 2013 for what it truely is- a bridge to a brighter future, we should:

    1) Trade Ellsbury for the best prospect(s) possible.

    2) Trade or extend (at a reasonable cost) Salty. If we extend him, trade Lava.

    3) Trade any players we do not see as being part of this team in 2014 or 2015 and beyond.

    4) Possibly trade some quantity of players and/or prospects for more quality players under team control for several years or better prospects.

     

    If we look at 2013 with the hopes of surprising people and making a run for a ring, we should:

    1) Extend Salty and give him confidence. 

    2) Trade Lava and possible blocked prospects (not top 10) for more sure bet players that are also hopefully under team control for several years.

    3) Trade 2-3 marginal players for one higher quality player to improve the roster and to make room for Tazawa and other players that may be ready to make the jump this summer.

    4) Pick-up a quality 1B/corner OF'er who hits RHPs very well.

     




    in both of those scenarios you have us trading lava... now im not against moving lava if we can get a decent return but if salty is extended then lava still has use to the organization outside of just being traded. Move him to 1B. We are slim on 1B prospects and with naps only with the team for 1 year we will be looking for a 1Bman next year. Move lava to 1B this year and get him ready to take over (production permitted) next season.

     

     



    The first option has us trading Salty and keeping lava as the most realistic way to brighten our future (trade old-keep young), but extending Salty also improves our future.

     

    I thought Lava might be our DH this year and 3rd catcher, but we extended Papi instead. I guess he may be converted to a 1Bman/emergency catcher player, but I'm not sold on his bat at this point.

    Of course, if we can't get worthy return for Lava, I want to keep him and hope for the best.

    To get better, a team needs to imrove its weak spot (ours is a top SP and a top 3/4 slot hitter). Usually, this is done by trading from areas of comparative strength or depth (ours is catching, bottom of rotation SPs, minor league SSs, and the bullpen).

     




    would you say Lavas ceiling (especially as a 1Bman or DH) is a 3/4 hitter? i could easily see him in the 5 hole if he hits to his capabilities. his offensive woes were certainly a concern last season though, i'm not ready to trade him yet, i am eager to see how he adjusts. Also, I just don't see him as our catcher of the future and he can definitely help the team in a different role without trading him.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    I had Salty or Lavarnway going as well. Especially with Salty, you have a starting C who has some good pop in his bat, a potential starter at SS, or at worst case your super sub with potential to improve, and a young SP with lots of room for improvement in either Morales or Doubront. I figure a team looking to rebuild would give up a high priced or older SP for that, yeah.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSox_Giants_Devils_Nicks. Show RedSox_Giants_Devils_Nicks's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    They wont have three they will have 2 and a guy who maybe if hes lucky will be behind the plate a few times a month

     

     

    Edit: im dumb and forgot about Daid Ross... 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to notin's comment:

    Type A is old CBA.

    Any player is eligible to receive a qualifying offer.  Saltalamacchia is very unlikely to merit one...



    Agreed. It's like $13 mil or so isn't it? I don't see Salty getting there. Ergo, trade him!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    Type A is old CBA.

    Any player is eligible to receive a qualifying offer.  Saltalamacchia is very unlikely to merit one...

    Agreed. It's like $13 mil or so isn't it? I don't see Salty getting there. Ergo, trade him!


    Of course that reduces Jarrod Saltalamacchia's trade value accordingly.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bucky-dent. Show bucky-dent's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    Yanks need a catchers sofielder infeilders I bet aroid would be great in that park. Please take him.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    would you say Lavas ceiling (especially as a 1Bman or DH) is a 3/4 hitter? i could easily see him in the 5 hole if he hits to his capabilities.

    He still has potential, but I am not sure about being a fine 5 slot hitter.

    his offensive woes were certainly a concern last season though, i'm not ready to trade him yet, i am eager to see how he adjusts.

    It was a small sample size in MLB last year, so I'm not holding that against him too much.

    Also, I just don't see him as our catcher of the future and he can definitely help the team in a different role without trading him.

    True, but the idea was that with the state of catcher offense so horrible in MLB these days, if Lava could hit like a 5 slot hitter his value would be much higher as a catcher than a DH or 1Bman. The defense is the issue.

    Holding onto Lava makes sense, especially with Salty's questionable status going forward. However, if we want to improve in areas of greater need, you have to give something to get something.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    So, will Tek become the new catcher's coach?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    Can we talk baseball?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Can we talk baseball?



    Does anybody know if Tek will take the catcher's coaching job?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to hill55's comment:

     pick-up a pitcher with cash for salty.


    I assume the Red Sox would be sending cash with Jarrod Saltalamacchia to cover part of his $4.5 million salary (unless the pitcher in return has a comparable salary).

     



    hmmm? I thought that WAR stuff was always used for player values.

    WAR    2011   2012

    Salty     1.7     2.0

    I thought the 2013 value of 1 WAR was ~$5M

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

     pick-up a pitcher with cash for salty.


    I assume the Red Sox would be sending cash with Jarrod Saltalamacchia to cover part of his $4.5 million salary (unless the pitcher in return has a comparable salary).

     

     



    hmmm? I thought that WAR stuff was always used for player values.

     

    WAR    2011   2012

    Salty     1.7     2.0

    I thought the 2013 value of 1 WAR was ~$5M



    His "value" on fangraphs is listed as:

    2011: $7.8M

    2012: $9.0M

    According to fangraphs, Salty is a steal at $4.5M (at half of his true worth).

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

     

    I figured one of the two, a shortstop (Iggy or Ciriaco) and a bullpen/5th starter type (Dubront or Morales likely) would have been traded for a solid starter by now. Not an ace obviously, but that's a pretty solid package going anywhere, especially with Lava Iggy and Morales...young and fairly cheap.

     



    Youseriously think adding Iggy or Ciriaco to a Doubront or Morales will net a "solid starter"?

     

    I think it will take more than that.

     

    If we look at 2013 for what it truely is- a bridge to a brighter future, we should:

    1) Trade Ellsbury for the best prospect(s) possible.

    2) Trade or extend (at a reasonable cost) Salty. If we extend him, trade Lava.

    3) Trade any players we do not see as being part of this team in 2014 or 2015 and beyond.

    4) Possibly trade some quantity of players and/or prospects for more quality players under team control for several years or better prospects.

     

    If we look at 2013 with the hopes of surprising people and making a run for a ring, we should:

    1) Extend Salty and give him confidence. 

    2) Trade Lava and possible blocked prospects (not top 10) for more sure bet players that are also hopefully under team control for several years.

    3) Trade 2-3 marginal players for one higher quality player to improve the roster and to make room for Tazawa and other players that may be ready to make the jump this summer.

    4) Pick-up a quality 1B/corner OF'er who hits RHPs very well.

     




    in both of those scenarios you have us trading lava... now im not against moving lava if we can get a decent return but if salty is extended then lava still has use to the organization outside of just being traded. Move him to 1B. We are slim on 1B prospects and with naps only with the team for 1 year we will be looking for a 1Bman next year. Move lava to 1B this year and get him ready to take over (production permitted) next season.

     

     



    The first option has us trading Salty and keeping lava as the most realistic way to brighten our future (trade old-keep young), but extending Salty also improves our future.

     

    I thought Lava might be our DH this year and 3rd catcher, but we extended Papi instead. I guess he may be converted to a 1Bman/emergency catcher player, but I'm not sold on his bat at this point.

    Of course, if we can't get worthy return for Lava, I want to keep him and hope for the best.

    To get better, a team needs to imrove its weak spot (ours is a top SP and a top 3/4 slot hitter). Usually, this is done by trading from areas of comparative strength or depth (ours is catching, bottom of rotation SPs, minor league SSs, and the bullpen).

     



    I still think Lavarnway is better defensively than Salty, but I'm with you on his bat...very limited hitting zone. Good coaching can fix that however.
    Salty has a lot of heart and determination, just not much raw talent. As a matter of fact, there are very few of our players that have raw talent. WMB, Iggy, and Ells do IMO. Pedey is a great player but not because he is talented....he works at it.  Leaves it all on the field.

    I think this group we have going into 2013 will have the same determination and will surprise this year.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

     

    I figured one of the two, a shortstop (Iggy or Ciriaco) and a bullpen/5th starter type (Dubront or Morales likely) would have been traded for a solid starter by now. Not an ace obviously, but that's a pretty solid package going anywhere, especially with Lava Iggy and Morales...young and fairly cheap.

     



    Youseriously think adding Iggy or Ciriaco to a Doubront or Morales will net a "solid starter"?

     

    I think it will take more than that.

     

    If we look at 2013 for what it truely is- a bridge to a brighter future, we should:

    1) Trade Ellsbury for the best prospect(s) possible.

    2) Trade or extend (at a reasonable cost) Salty. If we extend him, trade Lava.

    3) Trade any players we do not see as being part of this team in 2014 or 2015 and beyond.

    4) Possibly trade some quantity of players and/or prospects for more quality players under team control for several years or better prospects.

     

    If we look at 2013 with the hopes of surprising people and making a run for a ring, we should:

    1) Extend Salty and give him confidence. 

    2) Trade Lava and possible blocked prospects (not top 10) for more sure bet players that are also hopefully under team control for several years.

    3) Trade 2-3 marginal players for one higher quality player to improve the roster and to make room for Tazawa and other players that may be ready to make the jump this summer.

    4) Pick-up a quality 1B/corner OF'er who hits RHPs very well.

     




    in both of those scenarios you have us trading lava... now im not against moving lava if we can get a decent return but if salty is extended then lava still has use to the organization outside of just being traded. Move him to 1B. We are slim on 1B prospects and with naps only with the team for 1 year we will be looking for a 1Bman next year. Move lava to 1B this year and get him ready to take over (production permitted) next season.

     

     



    The first option has us trading Salty and keeping lava as the most realistic way to brighten our future (trade old-keep young), but extending Salty also improves our future.

     

    I thought Lava might be our DH this year and 3rd catcher, but we extended Papi instead. I guess he may be converted to a 1Bman/emergency catcher player, but I'm not sold on his bat at this point.

    Of course, if we can't get worthy return for Lava, I want to keep him and hope for the best.

    To get better, a team needs to imrove its weak spot (ours is a top SP and a top 3/4 slot hitter). Usually, this is done by trading from areas of comparative strength or depth (ours is catching, bottom of rotation SPs, minor league SSs, and the bullpen).

     

     



    I still think Lavarnway is better defensively than Salty, but I'm with you on his bat...very limited hitting zone. Good coaching can fix that however.
    Salty has a lot of heart and determination, just not much raw talent. As a matter of fact, there are very few of our players that have raw talent. WMB, Iggy, and Ells do IMO. Pedey is a great player but not because he is talented....he works at it.  Leaves it all on the field.

     

    I think this group we have going into 2013 will have the same determination and will surprise this year.

     



    I agree.  Lavarnway's hitting 'zone' can be developed.  Certainly, this is why they signed Ross.  They figure another year in AAA can fix his swing.

    Salty is what Salty is at this point.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    I still think Lavarnway is better defensively than Salty, but I'm with you on his bat...very limited hitting zone. Good coaching can fix that however.

    Right now, Salty is better defensively and in handling a staff he knows pretty well by now. Salty also showed vast improvement blocking the plate and pitch-calling last year. Lava has a lot to learn.



     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    "...fool me once, shame on --pauses-- shame on you. Fool me -- pauses-- ” You can't get fooled again."

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    Bill James prjects a .021 OPS increase by Salty this year.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Bill James prjects a .021 OPS increase by Salty this year.




    i guess he doesn't think much of salty? I think salty will do big things this year. Mainly a modest increase in his OBP

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I still think Lavarnway is better defensively than Salty, but I'm with you on his bat...very limited hitting zone. Good coaching can fix that however.

    Right now, Salty is better defensively and in handling a staff he knows pretty well by now. Salty also showed vast improvement blocking the plate and pitch-calling last year. Lava has a lot to learn.






    I guess I should have said that Lav has better skills defensively but you're right, they need to be developed. Salty's experience is what would give him the edge defensively.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    In response to Triumph-'s comment:

     

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

     

    Salty and Ross on the opening day roster and Lav with the Pawsox. This is what Ben said at the Town Hall meeting last week. Go ahead and speculate otherwise if you find that to be entertaining.

     




     

     

    Last years town hall meeting was awesome.

    Front office said everything was fantastic.

    How that work out?

     




     

    Front Office didn't know at the Town Hall meeting of January 2012 that the team would be injury ridden and that key players would underperform. On paper last year we had a very good team. They had reason to be optimistic.



    Last years failure had little do do with injury, try to keep up.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: sox wont carry three catchers

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

     

    In response to Triumph-'s comment:

     

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

     

    Salty and Ross on the opening day roster and Lav with the Pawsox. This is what Ben said at the Town Hall meeting last week. Go ahead and speculate otherwise if you find that to be entertaining.

     




     

     

    Last years town hall meeting was awesome.

    Front office said everything was fantastic.

    How that work out?

     




     

    Front Office didn't know at the Town Hall meeting of January 2012 that the team would be injury ridden and that key players would underperform. On paper last year we had a very good team. They had reason to be optimistic.

     



     

    Last years failure had little do do with injury, try to keep up.



    Except that it did.  Not saying the pitching didn't stink and valentine wasn't a nightmare.  Those, to me, are the bigger factors.  But to say that losing Papi, Ellsbury, Middlebrooks, Bailey, Pedey for huge chunks of time wasn't a big factor seems to lack perspective.

     
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