Starter Status.. since you are all asking

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    To me, it is obvious that Oswalt is not coming to the Red Sox.  It is also obvious the team needs one more starting pitcher.

    Also obvious, they dropped the ball dealing Scutaro.  While Mortenson gives them the advantage of having a pitcher with options remaining, he isn’t a very good option for the rotation.  The Pawtucket staff has enough depth that it can be set aside for awhile as the Boston rotation is filled out.

    I suppose it is possible they know more about Aaron Cook’s health that I know (in fact, they had better know more than me).  A healthy Aaron Cook is probably better than most of the remaining pitchers.  After Oswalt, free agency has only Rich Harden, Jon Garland, and Javier Vazquez.  Harden was a good pitcher, but the problems are obvious.  He hasn’t thrown 100IP in a season since 2009.  Garland is usually worth more for IP, but is coming off surgery himself.  Vazquez, who actually has had success in the AL despite his reputation, is strongly hinting at retirement.  So there is only stopgap potential at best among these three.

    The trade market has 4 notable names, and numerous worthless ones like Burnett and Peavy.  The Nationals are apparently willing to move Jon Lannan.  And the Cardinals need to move a SP to make room for Oswalt.  If the Sox are not going to get Oswalt anyway, and apparently they are not, they should probably consider taking a Cardinals pitcher off their hands.  The three most likely candidates are Lohse, Westbrook and McClellan.  Lohse and Westbrook are both fairly similar as pitchers, capable of good seasons as well as horrific onces.  Westbrook is owed less money.  McClellan is the cheapest of all four, but has less than one season as a starter and should probably be ignored altogether (despite his awesome Frisbee-style curveball). 

    Lannan ($5mill) ould be had for Ryan Sweeney ($1.75mill), but probably shouldn’t be.  Dealing Sweeney either means Ross is a full time RF (and there is no set replacement until Crawford returns), and there is not much left to replace him in the OF.  Internal option Kalish is already out.  And the rest of the minor league OF is fairly weak, with options like Alex Hassan, Che-Hsuan Lin or maybe Jason Repko.  Free agency is not much better, with primary options being Corey Patterson or Kosuke Fukudome.  Fukudome might abe a good idea to replace Crawford, as he is always good for a monster April, but beyond that he is not a good choice.  If the Sox could swing a subsequent deal for Jason Bogusevic of the Astros or Will Venable of the Padres, that would work.  Or they could send Lars Anderson to Milwaukee for Carlos Gomez in a deal of prospects who have not lived up to their hype, but at least would fill needs.  No idea what it would take to get Venable or Bogusevic, but probably more than Anderson.

    Lohse ($11mill) or Westbrook ($8.5mill) are much easier to acquire, but the Sox might prefer to send some money back, and the only expendable salary is Bobby Jenks ($6mill), who is hardly worth trading for.  The Sox would have to include something to St. Louis for this to work, but anything worthwhile might be prohibitive for Boston.  Jenks and Bowden?  Sure, but how much more and it’s an overpay?  Still, St. Louis has the obvious goal of moving money and a rotation spot for Oswalt, and the Sox do need someone capable of throwing at least 150IP while allowing minimal batting practice.  And if the goal for the Cardinals is to move money, taking on Westbrook and including Jenks looks much, much less likely. 

    Gavin Floyd remains on the radar, but it is looking more and more likely KW simply holds him until July 31.

    So either sign Harden or swing the deal.  Lannan, as a soft-throwing lefty, is probably the worst fit and the most complicated to accommodate.  Lohse is hardly one of my favorite pitchers, but of all the possibilities still out there, might be the best deal if St. Louis simply tries to move him to open a spot and save $5mill without asking for too much talent in return.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    Good summary, notin. (No opinion on high-priced Wandy & Brett?) 

    The idea of swapping Jenks & a prospect for a higher salary dump makes some sense, but wonder if there is another team out there that would take on the full salary (or more than we will).

    My preference is still to try for Floyd, and I'm willing to give up the over-hyped Middlebrooks, the out of options Bowden, and a couple mid level prospects (Pimental & Tejada?)...maybe more.

    I'm also wondering if there are other pitchers available that are flying under the radar.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    I think KW holds him until July 31 unless he is overwhelmed.

    The White Sox are a potential landing spot for AJ Burnett, per the speculation of the mlbtr staff.  I would assume this only happens if the ChiSox can unload Dunn or Rios in exchange.  However, the added pitching depth might change how KW feels about keeping Floyd, though I think he will still be costly.  At a minimum, Middlebrooks and another prospect...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    There is something I like about notin's Lars Anderson-for-Carlos Gomez proposal, although Anderson would join Mat Gamel and Taylor Green as lefthand-hitting firstbase candidates for the Milwaukee Brewers.

     But then there's the matter of Anderson's six years of team control to only two years of team control for Gomez.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    In Response to Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking:
    There is something I like about notin's Lars Anderson-for-Carlos Gomez proposal, although Anderson would join Mat Gamel and Taylor Green as lefthand-hitting firstbase candidates for the Milwaukee Brewers.  But then there's the matter of Anderson's six years of team control to only two years of team control for Gomez.
    Posted by hill55


    I think my monitor went all fuzzy - I thought I read that hill liked a trade proposal.  One of mine?

    I have to get this screen fixed...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    Perhaps the Phils would trade Blanton and pay 1/2 , roughly $4 M, for perhaps a low level prospect so they can sign Oswalt. He might be a good one year pick-up.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    Another pitcher coming off injury.  Blanton only pitched 41 1/3 innings last season; he can hardly be counted on to pith 150+ innings this coming season, IMO.  Blanton has always given up more hits than innings pitched and a ton of HRs.  The only thing that keeps his WHIP from going above 1.50 is impeccable control.  Stay away, at ALL costs, please!  Wakefield would be better, Cook too.  Miller even.

    There is a reason the Phillies offered Blanton around and nobody was interested.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    Harden is reportedly out for 2012 season..
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    Bringing on an expensive guy like Lohse or Westbrook, who frankly have only a slighlty higher upside than Cook, who is already here on the cheap, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Cook's injury history, while concerning, is almost never about arm issues, broken leg after taking a liner, broken finger, turf toe.  He has had a healthy offseason for the first time in 2 years and if he can have a full and healthy spring training, I see serious reason for optimism that he could be a bargain (1.5 million) bottom of the rotation guy.

    Please stop with Harden talk, that has been tired since 2008.

    Floyd is obvoiusly appealing but the price is going to be very high for a guy who has a + 4.00 ERA every year and is not exactly cheap (16 million next 2  years) and is only under control for 2 years.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    We could probably re-sign Wake for $750K, and he would be better than any of the above mentioned guys. He will give us innings and likely pitch over .500.

    I know you guys who are the smartest ones on this board know I am right, but you seem to be afraid to lobby for him. Why is that?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    In Response to Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking:
    We could probably re-sign Wake for $750K, and he would be better than any of the above mentioned guys. He will give us innings and likely pitch over .500. I know you guys who are the smartest ones on this board know I am right, but you seem to be afraid to lobby for him. Why is that?
    Posted by Alibiike

    I've been worn down. 

    I'm disappointed in the vitrol shown here for Wake, whose worst "crime" is to be a #5 pitcher.  No, he's probably not going to win the promised 15 games, but he may be able to go out and win 7-8 - maybe more with BV handling him.  And yes, he'll probably lose 12 games too, but that's life with a #5 pitcher. If you're looking for a #5 who's going to go 13-12 you're looking for a #3 or #4 and they just aren't available.

    This team throws money around like it's confetti.  Sign him for <$1MM, put him out there and see what he can do this year.  The worst thing that will happen is that he'll lose his first four, get cut, the Sox will be out <$1MM, and then his spot will be filled by someone from Pawtucket for less money - or DiceK.

    The best thing we can reasonably hope for is that he'll do as well as he did last year until late August and I'd be very happy with that - as long as he doesn't pitch into September.
     
    Wake isn't my first choice either, but at this point in the winter he's the best looking pup in a really ugly littler of pups.   
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    In Response to Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking:
    Harden is reportedly out for 2012 season..
    Posted by seannybboi

    Correct. He just had shoulder surgery and will be out the entire 2012 season.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    In Response to Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking:
    In Response to Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking : I've been worn down.  I'm disappointed in the vitrol shown here for Wake, whose worst "crime" is to be a #5 pitcher.  No, he's probably not going to win the promised 15 games, but he may be able to go out and win 7-8 - maybe more with BV handling him.  And yes, he'll probably lose 12 games too, but that's life with a #5 pitcher. If you're looking for a #5 who's going to go 13-12 you're looking for a #3 or #4 and they just aren't available. This team throws money around like it's confetti.  Sign him for <$1MM, put him out there and see what he can do this year.  The worst thing that will happen is that he'll lose his first four, get cut, the Sox will be out <$1MM, and then his spot will be filled by someone from Pawtucket for less money - or DiceK. The best thing we can reasonably hope for is that he'll do as well as he did last year until late August and I'd be very happy with that - as long as he doesn't pitch into September.   Wake isn't my first choice either, but at this point in the winter he's the best looking pup in a really ugly littler of pups.   
    Posted by S5


    I will continue to advocate his return. If nothing else, he is the most dependable.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    Ugh, the St. Louis pitchers are all clearly NL pitchers...I don't think any of them have Cook's "upside", and while they would eat innings, it would come at far more salary than they're worth.

    I'd rather stick with what we have and hold on to some flexibility than settle for an option that is flawed.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

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    In Response to Starter Status.. since you are all asking:
    To me, it is obvious that Oswalt is not coming to the Red Sox.  It is also obvious the team needs one more starting pitcher. Also obvious, they dropped the ball dealing Scutaro.  While Mortenson gives them the advantage of having a pitcher with options remaining, he isn’t a very good option for the rotation.  The Pawtucket staff has enough depth that it can be set aside for awhile as the Boston rotation is filled out. I suppose it is possible they know more about Aaron Cook’s health that I know (in fact, they had better know more than me).  A healthy Aaron Cook is probably better than most of the remaining pitchers.  After Oswalt, free agency has only Rich Harden, Jon Garland, and Javier Vazquez.  Harden was a good pitcher, but the problems are obvious.  He hasn’t thrown 100IP in a season since 2009.  Garland is usually worth more for IP, but is coming off surgery himself.  Vazquez, who actually has had success in the AL despite his reputation, is strongly hinting at retirement.  So there is only stopgap potential at best among these three. The trade market has 4 notable names, and numerous worthless ones like Burnett and Peavy.  The Nationals are apparently willing to move Jon Lannan.  And the Cardinals need to move a SP to make room for Oswalt.  If the Sox are not going to get Oswalt anyway, and apparently they are not, they should probably consider taking a Cardinals pitcher off their hands.  The three most likely candidates are Lohse, Westbrook and McClellan.  Lohse and Westbrook are both fairly similar as pitchers, capable of good seasons as well as horrific onces.  Westbrook is owed less money.  McClellan is the cheapest of all four, but has less than one season as a starter and should probably be ignored altogether (despite his awesome Frisbee-style curveball).  Lannan ($5mill) ould be had for Ryan Sweeney ($1.75mill), but probably shouldn’t be.  Dealing Sweeney either means Ross is a full time RF (and there is no set replacement until Crawford returns), and there is not much left to replace him in the OF.  Internal option Kalish is already out.  And the rest of the minor league OF is fairly weak, with options like Alex Hassan, Che-Hsuan Lin or maybe Jason Repko.  Free agency is not much better, with primary options being Corey Patterson or Kosuke Fukudome.  Fukudome might abe a good idea to replace Crawford, as he is always good for a monster April, but beyond that he is not a good choice.  If the Sox could swing a subsequent deal for Jason Bogusevic of the Astros or Will Venable of the Padres, that would work.  Or they could send Lars Anderson to Milwaukee for Carlos Gomez in a deal of prospects who have not lived up to their hype, but at least would fill needs.  No idea what it would take to get Venable or Bogusevic, but probably more than Anderson. Lohse ($11mill) or Westbrook ($8.5mill) are much easier to acquire, but the Sox might prefer to send some money back, and the only expendable salary is Bobby Jenks ($6mill), who is hardly worth trading for.  The Sox would have to include something to St. Louis for this to work, but anything worthwhile might be prohibitive for Boston.  Jenks and Bowden?  Sure, but how much more and it’s an overpay?  Still, St. Louis has the obvious goal of moving money and a rotation spot for Oswalt, and the Sox do need someone capable of throwing at least 150IP while allowing minimal batting practice.  And if the goal for the Cardinals is to move money, taking on Westbrook and including Jenks looks much, much less likely.  Gavin Floyd remains on the radar, but it is looking more and more likely KW simply holds him until July 31. So either sign Harden or swing the deal.  Lannan, as a soft-throwing lefty, is probably the worst fit and the most complicated to accommodate.  Lohse is hardly one of my favorite pitchers, but of all the possibilities still out there, might be the best deal if St. Louis simply tries to move him to open a spot and save $5mill without asking for too much talent in return.
    Posted by notin
    Aviles will do as well if not better than Scutaro. Money was freed up to sign Ross.  Or would have rather see McDonald platoon with Sweeney?
    It's beginning to look as though the Sox will go with Bard as #4 and with one from "the list" as #5.  IMO, that's smarter than overpaying for what's out there or giving up too much in a trade.   It's not as if the Sox are in a "do it" situation relative to pitchers who might be signed or traded for. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    Aviles will do as well if not better than Scutaro. Money was freed up to sign Ross.  Or would have rather see McDonald platoon with Sweeney?

    Actually, enough money was freed up to sign Ross and let's say, Shoppach (or Punto), but point well taken.

    It's beginning to look as though the Sox will go with Bard as #4 and with one from "the list" as #5.  IMO, that's smarter than overpaying for what's out there or giving up too much in a trade.   It's not as if the Sox are in a "do it" situation relative to pitchers who might be signed or traded for. 

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Aceves beat out Bard, and I personally think bard is better suited for the pen more so than Aceves is.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    I expect the RS to pull a rabbit out of the hat; whatever it is, it shall be largely a surprise, at least IMO.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

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    In Response to Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking:
    I expect the RS to pull a rabbit out of the hat; whatever it is, it shall be largely a surprise, at least IMO.  
    Posted by nhsteven

    Well, right now we have a lot of rabbits to hope that one gets pulled from the hat and succeeds. I'm hoping two win the 4 & 5 slots, so both Bard and Aceves stay in the pen. I like this 7-man pen:

    Bailey, Bard, Melancon, Aceves, Morales, Albers, and one from this list of a dozen starters trying out for the 4/5 slots (or RPs Bowden/Atchison):

    Dice-K (after June/July)
    Doubront
    Tazawa
    Cook
    Padilla
    Silva
    Mortensen
    A. Miller
    Maine
    Carlson
    Duckworth
    Alex Wilson

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    In Response to Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking:
    In Response to Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking : Well, right now we have a lot of rabbits to hope that one gets pulled from the hat and succeeds. I'm hoping two win the 4 & 5 slots, so both Bard and Aceves stay in the pen. I like this 7-man pen: Bailey, Bard, Melancon, Aceves, Morales, Albers, and one from this list of a dozen starters trying out for the 4/5 slots (or RPs Bowden/Atchison): Dice-K (after June/July) Doubront Tazawa Cook Padilla Silva Mortensen A. Miller Maine Carlson Duckworth Alex Wilson
    Posted by moonslav59


    This seems like a casting call for A Chorus Line.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    You used a bunch of words, vacillating like a politician during an election year.

    Nearly all dumpster pitchers are what they are. No need to fret over which one to roll the dice on. Simply take the bargain basement "price was right" yard sale profile. Harden should be offered a non-guaranteed opt out deal with guarantees only if he makes the roster by early spring, with incentives for innings etc. for the 2012 season if he makes it that far. As for the trades, trade junk for junk, which isn't hard to do. Some junk is worth more than junk.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    In Response to Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking:
    You used a bunch of words, vacillating like a politician during an election year. Nearly all dumpster pitchers are what they are. No need to fret over which one to roll the dice on. Simply take the bargain basement "price was right" yard sale profile. Harden should be offered a non-guaranteed opt out deal with guarantees only if he makes the roster by early spring, with incentives for innings etc. for the 2012 season if he makes it that far. As for the trades, trade junk for junk, which isn't hard to do. Some junk is worth more than junk.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr


    Harden is having shoulder surgery and is out for the year...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    I see that Gumby report, dated 2-9-12. Good time to offer some small welfare money to get a shot at him after recovery from surgery.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    Oh definitely.  And let's deal our best prospects for Victor Martinez while we're at it...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    Harden is a free agent, dimwit.

    While you are at it, why not offer millions to Wastefield and Varitek.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking

    In Response to Re: Starter Status.. since you are all asking:
    Harden is reportedly out for 2012 season..
    Posted by seannybboi


    Kudos to the Red Sox FO for taking a second look at the medical records of Hardin and passing on him. Many of us here in the forum unfortunately didn't have access to those medical records.
     
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