Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

     

     

    LMWTCF

    Gotcha Conan!!!

    If it's so obvious perhaps JF and BenC would make a change. Would Doubie be better in the pen for long relief or would he be better as someone else's problem?

    Would Stephen Drew be better as someone else's SS or on the DL suffering from fatigue? I have been a Drew Defender for about 1/3 of the season---but continuing to carry a .215 and 14 strikeouts recently I'm beginning to think other choices should be made.

    I am feeling the same way about WMB--How much harm could it do to the team to try Holt and Iggy on the left side of the infield? Not sure of Holt's Options situation...

    I generally like to stay the course but I am starting to waiver. Is JF not starting Iggy to allow both WMB and Drew to show BenC--WMB needs extended time in AAA and we made a big mistake with Drew--let's see if we can move him?

    I'm sure things will be figured out soon.

    Anachronym for "Lots more where that came from." I know it was killing you trying to figure it out.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    The usual postmortem after one loss--heads must roll.  ADG is a manic depressive who never seems to have a manic side.

    The bullpen is hurting because of 14 innings on Monday and 13 on Friday combined with no long starts by any of the starters.  Gotta give Farrell and Ben C credit for how they are using the AAA arms in all this.  Plus the collective determination of the whole team.  

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In his prior 5 starts Doubront pitched 6IP 4 times and 5.1 the other time. 4 oir 6 were QS. Nothing wrong with that from your #5. Id be more concerned with Lester.

    Middy cost him another innings worth of pitches last night which led to another run for the O's when he made an error on what should be a routine play. He later kicked another ball. So I think Doubie could have gone 6 last night with another possible QS too, if his defense didnt fail him.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    I wish we could find a way to play 1.000




    POST OF THE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PaulLaCourse. Show PaulLaCourse's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to ADG's comment:

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.




    You can add Drew to that argument too. He is pretty much useless.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to ADG's comment:

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.



    In what is likely a best case scenario, this team is going to lose AT LEAST another 40 regular season games this year, players are going to get injured, hitters are going to have slumps, make errors and strike out in big spots.  Pitchers are going to have games where they get their t*ts ripped and Farrell is going to make moves that fans will criticize.

    The sooner you understand that it's all part of baseball, the sooner you'll realize that whining over and over again about every single loss is an exercise in futility.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PaulLaCourse. Show PaulLaCourse's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

     

    LMWTCF

    Gotcha Conan!!!

    If it's so obvious perhaps JF and BenC would make a change. Would Doubie be better in the pen for long relief or would he be better as someone else's problem?

    Would Stephen Drew be better as someone else's SS or on the DL suffering from fatigue? I have been a Drew Defender for about 1/3 of the season---but continuing to carry a .215 and 14 strikeouts recently I'm beginning to think other choices should be made.

    I am feeling the same way about WMB--How much harm could it do to the team to try Holt and Iggy on the left side of the infield? Not sure of Holt's Options situation...

    I generally like to stay the course but I am starting to waiver. Is JF not starting Iggy to allow both WMB and Drew to show BenC--WMB needs extended time in AAA and we made a big mistake with Drew--let's see if we can move him?

    I'm sure things will be figured out soon.

    Anachronym for "Lots more where that came from." I know it was killing you trying to figure it out.




    +1

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    I would like to add that bad play is not good for the team.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    I wonder if ADG has taken a look at other teams and see what their No. 5 starter is averaging for IP per start. For instance, take a look at the starters for these teams who average the least per start. (This is from about a week ago when I added the entire rotation):

    Boston: 5.6
    Texas: 5.5 (two starters)
    Tampa Bay: 5.6
    Detroit: 5.5
    Baltimore: 5.7
    N.Y. Yankees: 5.0 (and a 5.3)

    I wonder if ADG realizes how incredibly stupid he sounds with his post. It's not exactly easy to find five guys who can start and average at least 6.0 innings.

    I haven't been a big Doubront fan because twice in three years he has come in out of shape and hasn't been as good last year and even before as some made it sound. But he has shown flashes of brilliance, which if he can harness over the next couple of months could make the rotation strong down the stretch.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from igotgyroballs. Show igotgyroballs's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    The usual postmortem after one loss--heads must roll.  ADG is a manic depressive who never seems to have a manic side.

    The bullpen is hurting because of 14 innings on Monday and 13 on Friday combined with no long starts by any of the starters.  Gotta give Farrell and Ben C credit for how they are using the AAA arms in all this.  Plus the collective determination of the whole team.  



    just because Farrell and Ben have turned this team around doesnt mean everyone of their moved needs to be agreed with

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    I have been on the trade Doubront bandwagon since the first time he came to camp out of shape. The kid has obvious talent, but control issues and attitude concerns always come to the forefront of my mind of this guy.

    That being said, as a 5th starter, his ERA is not bad, his WHIP is still bad, but his gamelog's ER per start look decent, despite the IP per start issues...

    5.0  5

    5.0  2

    6.2  3

    6.2  3

    3.2  6

    5.0  2

    6.0  2

    6.0  2

    6.0  1

    6.0  3

    4.2  3

    My guess is that most teams get worse numbers from their number 5 starter than these listed above, but as I have argued before, his WHIP is worse than 2012, and those numbers will catch up to him eventually.

    While it is true, the error by Middlebrooks may have kept him from reaching 5+ IP his last start, he has had some fortunate luck when you consider his WHIP is 1.621, but his ERA is only 4.91.

    Doubront has cut down on his BB rate the last 5 starts: 28.2 IP 10 BB as compared to earlier this year: 21 BBs in his first 32 IP as a starter. His last start was only 1 BB in 4.2 IP, but he hit two batters.  His WHIP over his last 5 starts is a decent 1.360 for a 5th starter. If you add in the 2 HBPs though, it's  1.430.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to igotgyroballs' comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    The usual postmortem after one loss--heads must roll.  ADG is a manic depressive who never seems to have a manic side.

    The bullpen is hurting because of 14 innings on Monday and 13 on Friday combined with no long starts by any of the starters.  Gotta give Farrell and Ben C credit for how they are using the AAA arms in all this.  Plus the collective determination of the whole team.  

     



    just because Farrell and Ben have turnedthis team around doesnt mean everyone of their moved needs to be agreed with

     



    Really?  I think their success means their moves have a lot more credibility than moves proposed by anyone on OTFB. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    More on Doubront...

    League average and Doubront:

    BA  .254/.288

    OBP .319/.365

    SLG .409/.423

    OPS .727/.789

    BAbip .296/.359

     

    Sox starters and Quality Starts:

    Buch 83%

    Lackey 60%

    Doubront 55%

    Dempster 54%

    (League average: 52%)

    Lester 50%

    Aceves 40%

     

    IP/GS

    Buch  7.0

    Lester 6.4

    (League avg) 5.9

    Dempster 5.8

    Lackey 5.7

    Doundront 5.5

    Aceves 5.5

     

    Pitches per PA:

    Demp 4.13

    Doub  4.03

    Lest   4.00

    Mort   3.98

    League avg  3.88

    Lackey  3.83

    Buch     3.82

    Aceves 3.71

    Sox4ever

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from NLU75. Show NLU75's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to ADG's comment:

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.

    u are right, but last night was all on John Farrell. That was the worst managing of a game ever.  Now please don't tell me  I am a troll  etc.etc. The last time I saw Kevin Gauseman pitch was last year in the Super Regional in Baton Rouge, La.  STONEYBROOK  beat him Stoneybrook with a 250 fans comes to B.R. with11,000 screraming drunk coonazzes(cajuns for u New Englanders & beats him. Kevin got called up from AA with a 3.50 ERA less than a month ago & John Farrell plays the infield up,  for Kevin freaking Gauseman gimme a break scared of a AA pitcher who a yr ago was at LSU


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to NLU75's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.

     

    u are right, but last night was all on John Farrell. That was the worst managing of a game ever.  Now please don't tell me  I am a troll  etc.etc. The last time I saw Kevin Gauseman pitch was last year in the Super Regional in Baton Rouge, La.  STONEYBROOK  beat him Stoneybrook with a 250 fans comes to B.R. with11,000 screraming drunk coonazzes(cajuns for u New Englanders & beats him. Kevin got called up from AA with a 3.50 ERA less than a month ago & John Farrell plays the infield up,  for Kevin freaking Gauseman gimme a break scared of a AA pitcher who a yr ago was at LSU


     



    "The worst managing of a game ever"? 

    Sorry, but that does sound like trolling to me.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to NLU75's comment:

     

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

     

     

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.

     

     

    u are right, but last night was all on John Farrell. That was the worst managing of a game ever.  Now please don't tell me  I am a troll  etc.etc. The last time I saw Kevin Gauseman pitch was last year in the Super Regional in Baton Rouge, La.  STONEYBROOK  beat him Stoneybrook with a 250 fans comes to B.R. with11,000 screraming drunk coonazzes(cajuns for u New Englanders & beats him. Kevin got called up from AA with a 3.50 ERA less than a month ago & John Farrell plays the infield up,  for Kevin freaking Gauseman gimme a break scared of a AA pitcher who a yr ago was at LSU


     

     

     



    Obviously, you didn't see one minute of that game last night.  The kid was throwing mid 90s with a nasty change up and no one on the Sox had ever faced him before, but you're righ, Farrell is an idiot.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team


    jasko2248 is dead right.  I too watched the game and thought the kid had a very good fastball and changeup.  I saw his high ERA and figured on 3 runs in the first inning easy.  Far from it. 

    Might I add an old gripe of mine--that Lester would be a ton more effective if he could throw a decent changeup he could throw with confidence. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenchylfcnsox. Show tenchylfcnsox's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to ADG's comment:

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.



    You can't have 5 starters who deliver every single start. Circumstances coupled with a slightly under par performance can lead to an ugly looking line for a pitcher. Bottom line is, more often than not Doubront gives us a chance to win. Hes the cheapest and least decorated of the 5 in the current rotation. What we are getting from him isn't bad at all and the fact that you consider Aceves a better option would suggest your post is a snap reaction to last night and not based on long term memory.

    Also last night WMB cost Doubrount with that big E, without that it could have been a different story and it certainly would have been a shorter and less costly 5th. But whatever, everyone makes mistakes,  couple of homers tonight and its forgotten! But I do think that a starting pitchers mistakes are blown up more than anyone else's (maybe except the closer?)

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to royf19's comment:

    I wonder if ADG has taken a look at other teams and see what their No. 5 starter is averaging for IP per start. For instance, take a look at the starters for these teams who average the least per start. (This is from about a week ago when I added the entire rotation):

    Boston: 5.6
    Texas: 5.5 (two starters)
    Tampa Bay: 5.6
    Detroit: 5.5
    Baltimore: 5.7
    N.Y. Yankees: 5.0 (and a 5.3)

    I wonder if ADG realizes how incredibly stupid he sounds with his post. It's not exactly easy to find five guys who can start and average at least 6.0 innings.

    I haven't been a big Doubront fan because twice in three years he has come in out of shape and hasn't been as good last year and even before as some made it sound. But he has shown flashes of brilliance, which if he can harness over the next couple of months could make the rotation strong down the stretch.



    There are only 51 pitchers with as many SP innings as Doubront.  Of those, 6 average less IP/GS, and 15 have worse ERAs.  So all ADG has to do is to find a player making minimum wage that can out-perform Doubront.  Aceves has averaged about 5.15 IP/GS for his career, and Morales has averaged ~ 5 IP.  Most of the folks having both more IP/GS and a better ERA, are probably expensive.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to ADG's comment:

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.




    He can't pitch out of the BP. He would have pitching into the 6 lasr game if it wasn't for a Middlebrooks error.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to ADG's comment:

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.



    ADG - You are not alone in your frustration with Doubrant, but please name which of the other 29 nbr 5 starters you'd prefer to him.  Also, why is Doubrant's 2013 innings/start of exactly 5.5 such a disaster when the average of all SPs remains around 6.0?  It makes no sense to me, please explain.  Seriously.

     
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