Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.

     



    ADG - You are not alone in your frustration with Doubrant, but please name which of the other 29 nbr 5 starters you'd prefer to him.  Also, why is Doubrant's 2013 innings/start of exactly 5.5 such a disaster when the average of all SPs remains around 6.0?  It makes no sense to me, please explain.  Seriously.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's the whole thing.  The average starter goes 5.88 IPs, with a 4.23.

    Doubront is 5.52 IPs, with a 4.45.  His OPS+ is actually better than average.  For all practical purposes, he is your prototypical #3.  Most teams would be very happy to have a minimum wage pitcher with his stats.

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.

     

     



    ADG - You are not alone in your frustration with Doubrant, but please name which of the other 29 nbr 5 starters you'd prefer to him.  Also, why is Doubrant's 2013 innings/start of exactly 5.5 such a disaster when the average of all SPs remains around 6.0?  It makes no sense to me, please explain.  Seriously.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's the whole thing.  The average starter goes 5.88 IPs, with a 4.23.

     

    Doubront is 5.52 IPs, with a 4.45.  His OPS+ is actually better than average.  For all practical purposes, he is your prototypical #3.  Most teams would be very happy to have a minimum wage pitcher with his stats.

    [/QUOTE]

    His OPS+ is better than average?

    Thge league average OPS is .729. Doubront's is .789. I know they adjust the numbers somewhat, but I find it hard to believe his OPS+ is better than average. Do you have a link?

    You are correct though, if you compare Doubront to other team's 5th starters. Here's a look at the American League's winning record team's worst starters so far this season:

                 ERA+/ WHIP

    Red Sox:

      Doubront 88/1.621

    Oakland:

       Parker  88/1.349

       Straily  88/1.074

       Anderson 63/1.621

    Detroit:

       Porcello  87/1.222

    Texas:

       Grimm  83/1.567

    Baltimore:

       Hammel  80/1.488

       Gausman 55/1.622 (a 6th starter)

    NY Yanks:

       Hughes   83/1.400

    Tampa:

       Hellickson 67/1.261

       Price  73/1.436

       Hernandez 78/1.335

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    As bad as the Red Sox starting pitching is looking now, Felix Doubront should be removed from the rotation. The Red Sox can not afford to have pitchers out average less than 6 IP per start. This will destroy your bullpen and we see that starting to happen.

    Whether it can be Morales, Aceves or someone else, given the state of the team, he needs to be removed from the rotation.

    The bullpen is taxed.

     

     

     



    ADG - You are not alone in your frustration with Doubrant, but please name which of the other 29 nbr 5 starters you'd prefer to him.  Also, why is Doubrant's 2013 innings/start of exactly 5.5 such a disaster when the average of all SPs remains around 6.0?  It makes no sense to me, please explain.  Seriously.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's the whole thing.  The average starter goes 5.88 IPs, with a 4.23.

     

     

    Doubront is 5.52 IPs, with a 4.45.  His OPS+ is actually better than average.  For all practical purposes, he is your prototypical #3.  Most teams would be very happy to have a minimum wage pitcher with his stats.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    His OPS+ is better than average?

     

    Thge league average OPS is .729. Doubront's is .789. I know they adjust the numbers somewhat, but I find it hard to believe his OPS+ is better than average. Do you have a link?

    You are correct though, if you compare Doubront to other team's 5th starters. Here's a look at the American League's winning record team's worst starters so far this season:

                 ERA+/ WHIP

    Red Sox:

      Doubront 88/1.621

    Oakland:

       Parker  88/1.349

       Straily  88/1.074

       Anderson 63/1.621

    Detroit:

       Porcello  87/1.222

    Texas:

       Grimm  83/1.567

    Baltimore:

       Hammel  80/1.488

       Gausman 55/1.622 (a 6th starter)

    NY Yanks:

       Hughes   83/1.400

    Tampa:

       Hellickson 67/1.261

       Price  73/1.436

       Hernandez 78/1.335

    [/QUOTE]


    But there is nothing wrong with trying to make your 5th starter better. That is my point. I don't care how he comprares to others. I would venture to say that Aceves, Morales or even Renaudo would be better, and that would be a risk worth taking. What is there to lose?

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    But there is nothing wrong with trying to make your 5th starter better. That is my point. I don't care how he comprares to others. I would venture to say that Aceves, Morales or even Renaudo would be better, and that would be a risk worth taking. What is there to lose?

    My point too, but at what cost?  Except for papi, and maybe Buchholz, you can improve at any position.  We can trade Bogaerts for mcCann, and get a slight improvement at a horrendous cost.  At the end of the day, in order to make a material improvement from 4.45 and 5.5 IP/GS, you have to move to say 4.00 and 6 IP/GS.

    How many SPs in the AL can do that?

    And then you have to consider the opportunity cost.  Suppose a team would trade a $10M high-end #3 for Doubront.  And 6 weeks from now, Bailey is struggling.  Suppose Paps is available.  But you've already traded Doubront and spent your $10M allowance on a marginal upgrade.  The difference between a 4.45 and a 4.00 over 180 IPs is about one win at 10 runs per win.

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    Doubront has been a good 5th starter this year, so far, but we can improve there or other places. Maybe Morales or Aceves can do better- maybe not. I wouldn't count on either of them to pitch 55% quality starts over 10-12 starts.

    I'm not for trading Doubront for a better SP who only has 2-3 months of team control. We could, however, try something like this: trade Aceves and Drew in seperate deals for prospects (we may have to wait until Drew heats up to get anything for him). Then, trade the two prospects, add a couple players we may lose to rule 5 next year, and package with Doubront for a better starter who is under team control for 2+ years. Or, package with some other player to upgrade at that position, but again, only for a player under team control for more than just 2013.

    Sox4ever

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Doubront has been a good 5th starter this year, so far, but we can improve there or other places. Maybe Morales or Aceves can do better- maybe not. I wouldn't count on either of them to pitch 55% quality starts over 10-12 starts.

    I'm not for trading Doubront for a better SP who only has 2-3 months of team control. We could, however, try something like this: trade Aceves and Drew in seperate deals for prospects (we may have to wait until Drew heats up to get anything for him). Then, trade the two prospects, add a couple players we may lose to rule 5 next year, and package with Doubront for a better starter who is under team control for 2+ years. Or, package with some other player to upgrade at that position, but again, only for a player under team control for more than just 2013.

    Sox4ever



    Am I wrong when I say that Doubront this year AS A STARTER...( 11 starts ) is 4-3 , 4.05 era, 1.50 whip, and like you said, a higher quality start rate than our no.2. Guy? AND....is making 600k....if we have a problem with this team right now he is not it. Now...that being said, if we could package him with say Middlebrooks and get a true no.2 then I'm all for it, I just don't see that happening because a no.2 will not come cheap. What people don't realize is that we are going to go through the same exact growing pains like we are with Doubront with Webster, Barnes, Ranaudo and the rest...we ALL need to relax and be patient with these young guys...

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Doubront has been a good 5th starter this year, so far, but we can improve there or other places. Maybe Morales or Aceves can do better- maybe not. I wouldn't count on either of them to pitch 55% quality starts over 10-12 starts.

    I'm not for trading Doubront for a better SP who only has 2-3 months of team control. We could, however, try something like this: trade Aceves and Drew in seperate deals for prospects (we may have to wait until Drew heats up to get anything for him). Then, trade the two prospects, add a couple players we may lose to rule 5 next year, and package with Doubront for a better starter who is under team control for 2+ years. Or, package with some other player to upgrade at that position, but again, only for a player under team control for more than just 2013.

    Sox4ever

     



    Am I wrong when I say that Doubront this year AS A STARTER...( 11 starts ) is 4-3 , 4.05 era, 1.50 whip, and like you said, a higher quality start rate than our no.2. Guy? AND....is making 600k....if we have a problem with this team right now he is not it. Now...that being said, if we could package him with say Middlebrooks and get a true no.2 then I'm all for it, I just don't see that happening because a no.2 will not come cheap. What people don't realize is that we are going to go through the same exact growing pains like we are with Doubront with Webster, Barnes, Ranaudo and the rest...we ALL need to relax and be patient with these young guys...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    His WHIP is a godawful 1.621 not a terrible 1.500.

    Trading Doubront and a mid level prospect or two for a solid #3 or 4 starter is possible, but I wouldn't do it for a 2 month rental.

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    Just when I was thinking ADG wouldn't be able to find anything to whine about, he proves me wrong ... again!!!

    Mandolin player and reluctant admirer of the New York Yankees

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    While researching the best Sox team of my lifetime (or since I followed the Sox in 1972), I found these interesting factoids:

    Only 46 pitchers have over 230 IP as a starting pitcher with the Sox since 1972

    The worst 5 SPs in WHIP:

    57) Sellers 1.56

    56) Rainey 1.52

    55) Torrez  1.51

    54) A Sele  1.49

    53) Doubront 1.49

    (The best: Pedro 0.98, Clemens (1.16, Jenkins 1.18, Tiant 1.19, Saber. 1.20, Schill 1.21, Beckett 1.22, Darwin 1.24, Eck 1.25, Arroyo 1.26)

    The worst ERAs:

    Clement 5.09

    Lackey  4.98

    Burkett 4.89

    Gardiner 4.84

    Gardner 4.82

    Sellers   4.75

    Gordon  4.72

    Castillo  4.71

    Doubront 4.71

    (The best: Pedro 2.52, Clemens 3.06, Tiant 3.30, Viola 3.40, Bodd. 3.48, Jenkins 3.48, Moret 3.50, B Lee 3.61, Curtis 3.64, Buch 3.67)

     

    Sox4ever

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to mjagger's comment:

    Trying to justify that Douby is a good #5 starter is similar to making excuses about a car that gets 5 MPG and always runs out of gas before the desired destination, but the radio sounds good. 



    The question of #5 is behind us.  He's a #3 right now.

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    Perhaps the faulty assumption is that "Morales, Aceves or someone else" could average more innings per start than Felix Doubront.

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to hill55's comment:

    Perhaps the faulty assumption is that "Morales, Aceves or someone else" could average more innings per start than Felix Doubront.



    That just attributes to the fact that there would be no easy replacements.  The easy part is saying we should try to improve, but you can say that about almost every position on every team.  For the most part, if you want to improve, you replace the worst player on your team with the best value you can find.

    I doubt any team in BB would replace someone with a league-average ERA making minimum wage.

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Perhaps the faulty assumption is that "Morales, Aceves or someone else" could average more innings per start than Felix Doubront.

     



    That just attributes to the fact that there would be no easy replacements.  The easy part is saying we should try to improve, but you can say that about almost every position on every team.  For the most part, if you want to improve, you replace the worst player on your team with the best value you can find.

     

    I doubt any team in BB would replace someone with a league-average ERA making minimum wage.

    [/QUOTE]

    A couple points:

    1) What do you consider our weakest link right now? (That doesn't necessarily mean who has played the poorest the last week or few weeks.) I'd say 1st is SP, 2nd Middle of the orser RH'd bat, 3rd is 3B, and 4th is OF.

    2) The AL average ERA is 4.02 and WHIP of 1.31. SP'ers only: ERA 4.20WHIP 1.32. Doubront is not really close to either of these numbers. Replacing Doubront with an average AL SP would be an improvement on paper anyways. We have cap space to make it happen. We don't have to give up on Doubront or Lester to get another SP. I'm not for trading significant prospects for a rental, so it might not be that easy to upgrade this deadline, but in theory, it is possible.

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Doubront has been a good 5th starter this year, so far, but we can improve there or other places. Maybe Morales or Aceves can do better- maybe not. I wouldn't count on either of them to pitch 55% quality starts over 10-12 starts.

    I'm not for trading Doubront for a better SP who only has 2-3 months of team control. We could, however, try something like this: trade Aceves and Drew in seperate deals for prospects (we may have to wait until Drew heats up to get anything for him). Then, trade the two prospects, add a couple players we may lose to rule 5 next year, and package with Doubront for a better starter who is under team control for 2+ years. Or, package with some other player to upgrade at that position, but again, only for a player under team control for more than just 2013.

    Sox4ever



    I wouldn't want them to trade Drew if Middlebrooks stays mired in his funk, but I'm not against trading Doubront.  I don't think that Doubront's ceiling is very high and he may not develop to be a much better pitcher than he all ready is.  As it stands now, I think he's  replacable, but a lower budget team out of the playoffs may see greater value in him.  I differ from you in that I would be willing to trade him for an upgrade starting pitching rental if that's the best deal they can find.  I wouldn't advocate for this if the Red Sox were a bubble playoff contender, but if this team continues to weather this very challenging part of the schedule, I would rather see them upgrade to a pitcher who may be able to go deeper into games to conserve bullpen arms and who has a greater chance of winning a big game.    

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Perhaps the faulty assumption is that "Morales, Aceves or someone else" could average more innings per start than Felix Doubront.

     

     



    That just attributes to the fact that there would be no easy replacements.  The easy part is saying we should try to improve, but you can say that about almost every position on every team.  For the most part, if you want to improve, you replace the worst player on your team with the best value you can find.

     

     

    I doubt any team in BB would replace someone with a league-average ERA making minimum wage.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    A couple points:

     

    1) What do you consider our weakest link right now? (That doesn't necessarily mean who has played the poorest the last week or few weeks.) I'd say 1st is SP, 2nd Middle of the orser RH'd bat, 3rd is 3B, and 4th is OF.

    2) The AL average ERA is 4.02 and WHIP of 1.31. SP'ers only: ERA 4.20WHIP 1.32. Doubront is not really close to either of these numbers. Replacing Doubront with an average AL SP would be an improvement on paper anyways. We have cap space to make it happen. We don't have to give up on Doubront or Lester to get another SP. I'm not for trading significant prospects for a rental, so it might not be that easy to upgrade this deadline, but in theory, it is possible.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey.."Mrknowitall"....if you took the time to have read what I wrote that....AS A STARTER...this yr, he is 4-3. 4.05 era, 1.50 whip, a 55 percent QS rate, and is making 518k..AND....is still young and has room to improve....now I want you to do something for me, and the rest of us. Look up every staters whip and era for their first 2 yrs only...because I, like other people on here believe that he can, and prob will improve in ALL of those areas as time goes on. 

     

    And if you don't want to trade significant prospects for a 2 month rental then why would you even consider trading Doubront? 

    Pas far as I'm concerned, this team really doesn't have a weakness. It has a great mix of youth and vets, they play the game right, and over the course of 162 games players will find thier stroke and others will lose a little bit. Unless some has a season ending injury I wouldn't change a thing. The 2 BIG if imo...are Lester and Baily? 

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Perhaps the faulty assumption is that "Morales, Aceves or someone else" could average more innings per start than Felix Doubront.

     

     

     



    That just attributes to the fact that there would be no easy replacements.  The easy part is saying we should try to improve, but you can say that about almost every position on every team.  For the most part, if you want to improve, you replace the worst player on your team with the best value you can find.

     

     

     

    I doubt any team in BB would replace someone with a league-average ERA making minimum wage.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    A couple points:

     

     

    1) What do you consider our weakest link right now? (That doesn't necessarily mean who has played the poorest the last week or few weeks.) I'd say 1st is SP, 2nd Middle of the orser RH'd bat, 3rd is 3B, and 4th is OF.

    2) The AL average ERA is 4.02 and WHIP of 1.31. SP'ers only: ERA 4.20WHIP 1.32. Doubront is not really close to either of these numbers. Replacing Doubront with an average AL SP would be an improvement on paper anyways. We have cap space to make it happen. We don't have to give up on Doubront or Lester to get another SP. I'm not for trading significant prospects for a rental, so it might not be that easy to upgrade this deadline, but in theory, it is possible.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey.."Mrknowitall"....if you took the time to have read what I wrote that....AS A STARTER...this yr, he is 4-3. 4.05 era, 1.50 whip, a 55 percent QS rate, and is making 518k..AND....is still young and has room to improve....now I want you to do something for me, and the rest of us. Look up every staters whip and era for their first 2 yrs only...because I, like other people on here believe that he can, and prob will improve in ALL of those areas as time goes on. 

     

     

    And if you don't want to trade significant prospects for a 2 month rental then why would you even consider trading Doubront? 

    Pas far as I'm concerned, this team really doesn't have a weakness. It has a great mix of youth and vets, they play the game right, and over the course of 162 games players will find thier stroke and others will lose a little bit. Unless some has a season ending injury I wouldn't change a thing. The 2 BIG if imo...are Lester and Baily? 

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the debatable question is how much room does he have to improve.  I'm not sure he's got the stuff to work with.  If you or anybody else can elaborate on what you see as stuff and makeup that lead to bigger things for him, then I'm ready to read and learn from observers that can explain it.

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    I'd also like to see any discussion about Doubront go beyond the stats and talk about pitching.   These numbers don't mean anything unless you can describe how they evolved to begin with and explain what specific areas show any potential for improvement and why.

     
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    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

    Perhaps the faulty assumption is that "Morales, Aceves or someone else" could average more innings per start than Felix Doubront.

     

     

     

     



    That just attributes to the fact that there would be no easy replacements.  The easy part is saying we should try to improve, but you can say that about almost every position on every team.  For the most part, if you want to improve, you replace the worst player on your team with the best value you can find.

     

     

     

     

    I doubt any team in BB would replace someone with a league-average ERA making minimum wage.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    A couple points:

     

     

     

    1) What do you consider our weakest link right now? (That doesn't necessarily mean who has played the poorest the last week or few weeks.) I'd say 1st is SP, 2nd Middle of the orser RH'd bat, 3rd is 3B, and 4th is OF.

    2) The AL average ERA is 4.02 and WHIP of 1.31. SP'ers only: ERA 4.20WHIP 1.32. Doubront is not really close to either of these numbers. Replacing Doubront with an average AL SP would be an improvement on paper anyways. We have cap space to make it happen. We don't have to give up on Doubront or Lester to get another SP. I'm not for trading significant prospects for a rental, so it might not be that easy to upgrade this deadline, but in theory, it is possible.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey.."Mrknowitall"....if you took the time to have read what I wrote that....AS A STARTER...this yr, he is 4-3. 4.05 era, 1.50 whip, a 55 percent QS rate, and is making 518k..AND....is still young and has room to improve....now I want you to do something for me, and the rest of us. Look up every staters whip and era for their first 2 yrs only...because I, like other people on here believe that he can, and prob will improve in ALL of those areas as time goes on. 

     

     

     

    And if you don't want to trade significant prospects for a 2 month rental then why would you even consider trading Doubront? 

    Pas far as I'm concerned, this team really doesn't have a weakness. It has a great mix of youth and vets, they play the game right, and over the course of 162 games players will find thier stroke and others will lose a little bit. Unless some has a season ending injury I wouldn't change a thing. The 2 BIG if imo...are Lester and Baily? 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the debatable question is how much room does he have to improve.  I'm not sure he's got the stuff to work with.  If you or anybody else can elaborate on what you see as stuff and makeup that lead to bigger things for him, then I'm ready to read and learn from observers that can explain it.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Doubront CERTAINLY has the stuff. His cb and cutter are both above average. And a 92/93 fb for a lefty is all he needs. His problem has been command....and more importantly, predictability. The hitters seem to be sitting on his cb when behind in the count and he needs to mix up his pitches more. And his command needs to get better. Both of those things over time will improve IMO the more he pitches. I don't know if you were around,but do you remember the early 80's with Tudor, Hurst, and Ojeda? All 3 of those guys struggled with the same issues at 24/25/26....all 3 were left handlers and all 3 went on to have pretty solid careers. It's too bad we gave up on 2 of them and got nothing in return. Would of liked to have had Ojeda (18-5) on our team in 86 instead of the mets....

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    Doubront is a pain, on which we can all agree.  But right now I think he is worth hanging onto. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Perhaps the faulty assumption is that "Morales, Aceves or someone else" could average more innings per start than Felix Doubront.

     

     



    That just attributes to the fact that there would be no easy replacements.  The easy part is saying we should try to improve, but you can say that about almost every position on every team.  For the most part, if you want to improve, you replace the worst player on your team with the best value you can find.

     

     

    I doubt any team in BB would replace someone with a league-average ERA making minimum wage.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    A couple points:

     

    1) What do you consider our weakest link right now? (That doesn't necessarily mean who has played the poorest the last week or few weeks.) I'd say 1st is SP, 2nd Middle of the orser RH'd bat, 3rd is 3B, and 4th is OF.

    2) The AL average ERA is 4.02 and WHIP of 1.31. SP'ers only: ERA 4.20WHIP 1.32. Doubront is not really close to either of these numbers. Replacing Doubront with an average AL SP would be an improvement on paper anyways. We have cap space to make it happen. We don't have to give up on Doubront or Lester to get another SP. I'm not for trading significant prospects for a rental, so it might not be that easy to upgrade this deadline, but in theory, it is possible.

    [/QUOTE]

    In keeping with the profile of a .600 team, we have no material weaknesses right now.  On the position players, our biggest weakness is 3B, unless we continue to play Iggy there.  That's pretty murky with no right answers, so I don't see a trade, unless we want to trade for  UIF and send MBR down.

    On the pitching side, the biggest weakness is Lester and the lack of a second true ace.  If the RS could figure out how to replace Lester with someone like Lee, I'd be full on board.  Past that,  Bailey would be my concern.  That's why I mentioned Paps earlier.

    Doubront has had one bad start out of 11 starts.  He's had 10/11 starts with 3 runs or less.  On a percentage basis, that's probably the best in the league.  Verlander has 12/14, Felix 11/15, Sanchez 11/13, Shields 12/14.

    Past that, he's pitching excellently recently with a 3.48 ERA over his last 6 starts.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but to me, he looks like one of our most conistent pitchers.

    And FWIW (SSS), his ERA against our three main competitors is 3.58 (BA), 2.52 (NYY), and 3.86 (TB).  It's too small a sample, and mostly unproveable, but Doubront also looks like one our most clutch pitchers as well.  I'm not bagging on Lester with this one, but would anyone prefer to see Lester against the NYY instead of Doubront?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    I'd also like to see any discussion about Doubront go beyond the stats and talk about pitching.   These numbers don't mean anything unless you can describe how they evolved to begin with and explain what specific areas show any potential for improvement and why.



    Two things stand out for me.

    1-He has a 2.18 K/W and > 1K/IP.  Those stats generally succeed.

    2-He beats the NYY.  There are plenty of pitchers that can win in Podunk.  the number of pitchers that pitch well against the NYY is pretty limited.

    Just for the sake of discussion, suppose Lackey and Dempster were available.  Would anyone trade Doubront for either of those two guys straight up?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    At an arbitrary filter of 50 IPs and a 4.25 ERA, there would be 37 SPs available in the AL to choose from.  Doubront is ranked #44 by those standards.  That still makes him a #3.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    I throw out every Oakland Pitcher stat, till that team comes East in tougher Pitchers Parks. Home games in Oakland and many games in Seattle, always skeptical on their Pitchers.

     

    Thats why I never want to Trade for any of their Pitchers.

     

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