Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    At an arbitrary filter of 50 IPs and a 4.25 ERA, there would be 37 SPs available in the AL to choose from.  Doubront is ranked #44 by those standards.  That still makes him a #3.



    Thanks Joe...there are some people on here ( mrknowitall is one of them )who will use any stat ( in Doubronts case it's his high whip which is grossly inflated by 2 bad outings, one of which was in relief ) to look to put a player down. His body of work over his 12 starts is not something that should be fixed. Lester...as you mentioned is the guy this team needs really bad to step up and be a 2/3 going forward. I predicted early in the yr when Lester's era was in the 1's and Doubronts in the 5's that by the end of the yr Doubront would have the better numbers and be the guy to pitch and win a big game and I stand by that. Lester is in trouble and has been trending down for quite some time now. I would do a lee for Lester in a heart beat

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    I wish Nieves and Farrell would get on Lester in the beginning of games. Visit the mound, get him focused, stop worrying about calls. Do your job.
    Dont let the game and Pitch Count slip away at beginning of games.
    Said many times you can tell how Lester will Pitch by inning 3, high Pitch count get the BP ready.

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    I wish Nieves and Farrell would get on Lester in the beginning of games. Visit the mound, get him focused, stop worrying about calls. Do your job.
    Dont let the game and Pitch Count slip away at beginning of games.
    Said many times you can tell how Lester will Pitch by inning 3, high Pitch count get the BP ready.

     

     



    The problem with Lester is that he can't get away with misstakes like he used to ( because of his loss of velo ) and he knows that so he tries to be too fine. Jon Lester was NEVER a pitcher ( with 3 or 4 pitches that he could throw on any count ) he was a THROWER....basically a fb cutter guy. He could just reach back at 95/97 and throw it. Down the middle of the plate and say "hit it " ...now, he needs to hit his spots and he can't do it...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

     

    Doubront has been a good 5th starter this year, so far, but we can improve there or other places. Maybe Morales or Aceves can do better- maybe not. I wouldn't count on either of them to pitch 55% quality starts over 10-12 starts.

    I'm not for trading Doubront for a better SP who only has 2-3 months of team control. We could, however, try something like this: trade Aceves and Drew in seperate deals for prospects (we may have to wait until Drew heats up to get anything for him). Then, trade the two prospects, add a couple players we may lose to rule 5 next year, and package with Doubront for a better starter who is under team control for 2+ years. Or, package with some other player to upgrade at that position, but again, only for a player under team control for more than just 2013.

    Sox4ever

     

     



    I wouldn't want them to trade Drew if Middlebrooks stays mired in his funk, but I'm not against trading Doubront.  I don't think that Doubront's ceiling is very high and he may not develop to be a much better pitcher than he all ready is.  As it stands now, I think he's  replacable, but a lower budget team out of the playoffs may see greater value in him.  I differ from you in that I would be willing to trade him for an upgrade starting pitching rental if that's the best deal they can find.  I wouldn't advocate for this if the Red Sox were a bubble playoff contender, but if this team continues to weather this very challenging part of the schedule, I would rather see them upgrade to a pitcher who may be able to go deeper into games to conserve bullpen arms and who has a greater chance of winning a big game.    

     

     

     



    I'd love to win here and now, but Doubront has 4 more years of team control after 2013. One is pre-arb- very cheap. Trading 26 months of Doubront control for 2 months of a rental is not a good idea in my opinion, unless we can get draft comp after a quality offer is refused.

     

    I understand the pitcher who goes deeper into games saves the pen, but if we trade at the deadline, that really only helps us in August, since the expanded rosters in September solves the bull pen depth issue.

    I think we can find an over-priced pitcher who is under team control for 2014 with maybe an option for 2015. Some teams probably see themselves as noncontenders even next year, and they'd be willing to part with a solid starter for 4 years of Doubront plus a couple of good prospects we may lose anyways when the rule 5 crunch comes this November.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    I wouldn't want them to trade Drew if Middlebrooks stays mired in his funk...

    As poorly as Drew is doing at the plate right now, he's doing better than Middlebrooks.  Agreed. I also think Drew at SS and Iggy at 3B is better fielding than Iggy at SS and Midds at 3B. Middy has looked bad at 3B this year.

    Sox4ever

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    And if you don't want to trade significant prospects for a 2 month rental then why would you even consider trading Doubront?

    I've explained why a hundred times. Will doing it 101 times finally get to at least understand my position? Remember, understanding someon'es position does not mean you have to agree with it. Here, I'll simplify it for you one last time:

    1) Doubront has attitude and motivational issues, that in my opinion are not easily changed at his age. I don't want a pitcher with motivational issues starting a big game for us, if I can get someone better who has no issues like that.

    2) Doubront has skills and 4+ years of team control. I have never doubted he has high value to both us and other teams. Wanting to trade him is not saying I think he stinks. I feel his value might mean more to another GM, and that GM would overpay for those years of control at a low cost. Low cost is not as important to the Sox as other teams. I do not think that concept is so hard to grasp.

    3) I WILL NOT TRADE DOUBRONT FOR LESSER VALUE or a 2 month rental. I do not think 26 months of control for Doubront is woth 2 months of a #2 or 3 starter. I would trade prospects that we may lose to rule 5 or because of rule 5 roster adjustments for a 2 month rental, but I'd prefer we find someone who will at leats be here in 2014 as well.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    I think the debatable question is how much room does he have to improve.  I'm not sure he's got the stuff to work with.  If you or anybody else can elaborate on what you see as stuff and makeup that lead to bigger things for him, then I'm ready to read and learn from observers that can explain it.

    I think he has nasty stuff and a good variety of pitches. I have never doubted his skillset.

    Sox4ever

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I wouldn't want them to trade Drew if Middlebrooks stays mired in his funk...

    As poorly as Drew is doing at the plate right now, he's doing better than Middlebrooks.  Agreed. I also think Drew at SS and Iggy at 3B is better fielding than Iggy at SS and Midds at 3B. Middy has looked bad at 3B this year.

    Sox4ever



    We can't afford to lose Drew right now.  He may not be hitting but even our analysts have been raving about his accuracy and overall great year he is having defensively. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In keeping with the profile of a .600 team, we have no material weaknesses right now.  On the position players, our biggest weakness is 3B, unless we continue to play Iggy there.  That's pretty murky with no right answers, so I don't see a trade, unless we want to trade for  UIF and send MBR down.

    Teams with better winning percentages that .600 always look to upgrade their weakest link, even if the "weakest link" is league average or better.

    We obviously have a weak link on offense vs LHPs. We have more than a 100 point lower OPS vs LHPs than RHPs. We can hold out hope that Middy gets his act together and that SV & Gomes continue improving vs lefties, but I'd rather be proactive about it.

    Here are our current numbers vs lefties: there are weakness at several positions in this area:

    Iggy   1.112

    Pede 1.025

    Carp    .779

    Gomes .760 (normally one of the leagues best)

    Ross   .728

    Nava   .725

    Ortiz  .723

    Midd   .719

    Naps  .700 (just 1 HR and 6 RBI in 81 PAs)

    Ellsb  .663

    SV     .644

    Drew .607

    Salty .552

    As you can see we have only 2 guys above .780. That is a huge weakness that can and should not be ignored. My guess is we will improve on those numbers over time, but not by a whole lot. I don't expect Iggy to stay over 1.000 either.  We have no catcher above .728 vs LHPs. Our best OF by offensive numbers is Carp, Nava and Gomes which will never happen, so at best we will have 1 OF'er out there below .665 (Ellsbury). If we use Carp at 1B, then we need 2 below .665. Our best SS/3B OPs (wherever Iggy doesn't play) is .719 (Middy) or Drew (.607).

     

     

    On the pitching side, the biggest weakness is Lester and the lack of a second true ace.  If the RS could figure out how to replace Lester with someone like Lee, I'd be full on board.  Past that,  Bailey would be my concern.  That's why I mentioned Paps earlier.

    We will likely face another starting pitcher issue before the season ends besides Lester. It is always worth looking into improving the rotation or adding depth. Right now, we seem to be OK on depth, but as you pointed out, weak at the top. Finding a top of roatation starter is very hard to do and very costly. It may be easier to find a solid #3 type starter that is dependable, goes deep into games and is better than Lester (right now) and Doubront (assuming he repeats his first few starts productivity).

     

    Doubront has had one bad start out of 11 starts.  He's had 10/11 starts with 3 runs or less.  On a percentage basis, that's probably the best in the league.  Verlander has 12/14, Felix 11/15, Sanchez 11/13, Shields 12/14.

    That is a nice stat, but those other guys let up 1-2 runs more often, and when they did let up 3, probably went deeper than Doubie. I'm not downplaying those numbers. Doubront has done a good job not letting up earned runs with such a high WHIP. I just am not sure how sustainable that feat is.

     

    Past that, he's pitching excellently recently with a 3.48 ERA over his last 6 starts.

    Very true, but you can also know that other GMs know these facts as well as we do, and his value is rising then, right?

     

    Maybe I'm missing something, but to me, he looks like one of our most conistent pitchers.

    It is very rare for a pitcher to continue a low ERA with such a high WHIP, just as it is for a batter to continue great numbers based on a super high BAbip number that is bound to catch up sooner or later. I'm not discounting Doub's ability to improve on his WHIP, but I see little signs of that happeneing.

    Last 6 starts:

    33.2 IP  11 ERs  

    32 Hits

    16 BB

    2 HBP

    48 H + BB in 33.2 IP = 1.43 WHIP (Better, but still not really close to optimal)

    Add the 2 HBP and it's 50/33.2 or 1.49.

     

    And FWIW (SSS), his ERA against our three main competitors is 3.58 (BA), 2.52 (NYY), and 3.86 (TB).  It's too small a sample, and mostly unproveable, but Doubront also looks like one our most clutch pitchers as well.  I'm not bagging on Lester with this one, but would anyone prefer to see Lester against the NYY instead of Doubront?

    Right this minute, no, but I still think Lester has an equal chance at Doubront to put up better numbers over the rest of this season. I haven't given up on Lester. He is trying to reinvent himself after losing some steam on hisd FB. It takes time. Sometimes a pitcher never can return to glory after losing speed, but Lester had a long stretch of pitching very very well... as good or better than Doubront's 6 game sample size.

    My point is with Lester and Doubront still having issues or concerns, and the possibility of injury or decline by the other 3 (Buch is already showing fragility issues), we can use another quality starter. We don't have to trade Doubront to get one, but he seems like the most valuable commodity we have to try and upgrade at that position.

    I undertsand if you or thers disagree that the player we get is or is not better than Doubront, of that a shorter term of a better pitcher does not outweigh the longer control of Doubront, but it certainly is logical to think we can improve on our SP'ers and in particular Doubront or Lester.

    Sox4ever

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I wish Nieves and Farrell would get on Lester in the beginning of games. Visit the mound, get him focused, stop worrying about calls. Do your job.
    Dont let the game and Pitch Count slip away at beginning of games.
    Said many times you can tell how Lester will Pitch by inning 3, high Pitch count get the BP ready.

     

     

     



    The problem with Lester is that he can't get away with misstakes like he used to ( because of his loss of velo ) and he knows that so he tries to be too fine. Jon Lester was NEVER a pitcher ( with 3 or 4 pitches that he could throw on any count ) he was a THROWER....basically a fb cutter guy. He could just reach back at 95/97 and throw it. Down the middle of the plate and say "hit it " ...now, he needs to hit his spots and he can't do it...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly, but I remember several other starters who lost their juice, but after some period of time, became excellent "pitchers". It took Clemens several years (and some PEDs) to do it.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I wouldn't want them to trade Drew if Middlebrooks stays mired in his funk...

    As poorly as Drew is doing at the plate right now, he's doing better than Middlebrooks.  Agreed. I also think Drew at SS and Iggy at 3B is better fielding than Iggy at SS and Midds at 3B. Middy has looked bad at 3B this year.

    Sox4ever

     



    We can't afford to lose Drew right now.  He may not be hitting but even our analysts have been raving about his accuracy and overall great year he is having defensively. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I have come across as being anti-Drew, but I really see myself as pro-Iggy. I ahve always granted that Drew was a plus offensive SS, although he hasn't showed it this year. I have also admitted he is fielding better than I expected.

    To me, the SS position more than any other slot, is about range much more than "accuracy" and flg%. It is great to only have one error so far, but errors are a bit subjective and not turning a DP or making a difficult but not impossible play can be overlooked.

    Right now, I prefer Drew to Middy, and if we do end up trading Drew, he needs to play and improve his numbers over the next 6 weeks to be worth anything in return. I'd play Drew vs every RHP, but I'd play Iggy at SS vs all LHPs. Drew's .607 OPS vs LHPs is not likely to improve greatly. I'd play Iggy vs almost all RHPs at 3B. That leaves Middy playing only vs LHPs and few righties. Maybe that's not the best scenario for him to work through his issues, but I'm not sure Holt is any better.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to mjagger's comment:

    Douby has been a bullpen killer since day one. Too bad killing the bullpen isn't against the law, because Douby would now be pitching for the state prison team and no longer be a problem for the SOX.



    He gets about 1 less out per start than our other starters or the league average.

    I don't see how this is killing our pen.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to mjagger's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mjagger's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Douby has been a bullpen killer since day one. Too bad killing the bullpen isn't against the law, because Douby would now be pitching for the state prison team and no longer be a problem for the SOX.

     

     



    He gets about 1 less out per start than our other starters or the league average.

     

     

    I don't see how this is killing our pen.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey Moon, I really respect your knowledge of baseball and your going the extra mile with stats and facts, but we will never agree about Doubront. I just don't see him becoming anymore than what he is now. Maybe he would be better suited in the pen.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think you have read everything I have written about Doubront. I have suggested trading him for over a year. I do not like his motivational issues. I think we can upgrade at SP, but I was just pointing out that his taxing of our pen is being over-stated.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mjagger's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to mjagger's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Douby has been a bullpen killer since day one. Too bad killing the bullpen isn't against the law, because Douby would now be pitching for the state prison team and no longer be a problem for the SOX.

     

     

     



    He gets about 1 less out per start than our other starters or the league average.

     

     

     

    I don't see how this is killing our pen.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey Moon, I really respect your knowledge of baseball and your going the extra mile with stats and facts, but we will never agree about Doubront. I just don't see him becoming anymore than what he is now. Maybe he would be better suited in the pen.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think you have read everything I have written about Doubront. I have suggested trading him for over a year. I do not like his motivational issues. I think we can upgrade at SP, but I was just pointing out that his taxing of our pen is being over-stated.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Of qualified starters, which Doubront is not (2-3 innings short), his ERA would rank 7th to last in the American Leauge. My point is why not try something else. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    I wish Nieves and Farrell would get on Lester in the beginning of games. Visit the mound, get him focused, stop worrying about calls. Do your job.
    Dont let the game and Pitch Count slip away at beginning of games.
    Said many times you can tell how Lester will Pitch by inning 3, high Pitch count get the BP ready.

     

     

     

     



    The problem with Lester is that he can't get away with misstakes like he used to ( because of his loss of velo ) and he knows that so he tries to be too fine. Jon Lester was NEVER a pitcher ( with 3 or 4 pitches that he could throw on any count ) he was a THROWER....basically a fb cutter guy. He could just reach back at 95/97 and throw it. Down the middle of the plate and say "hit it " ...now, he needs to hit his spots and he can't do it...

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly, but I remember several other starters who lost their juice, but after some period of time, became excellent "pitchers". It took Clemens several years (and some PEDs) to do it.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Most of them become 500 pitchers the rest of thier career....chances are Lester will be around for awhile because people like yourself will keep living in the past. You don't want to buy Apple at $700 bucks (Lester)you want to find the NEXT Apple at $10 (Doubront) 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mjagger's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

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    In response to mjagger's comment:

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

    Douby has been a bullpen killer since day one. Too bad killing the bullpen isn't against the law, because Douby would now be pitching for the state prison team and no longer be a problem for the SOX.

     

     

     

     



    He gets about 1 less out per start than our other starters or the league average.

     

     

     

     

    I don't see how this is killing our pen.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey Moon, I really respect your knowledge of baseball and your going the extra mile with stats and facts, but we will never agree about Doubront. I just don't see him becoming anymore than what he is now. Maybe he would be better suited in the pen.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think you have read everything I have written about Doubront. I have suggested trading him for over a year. I do not like his motivational issues. I think we can upgrade at SP, but I was just pointing out that his taxing of our pen is being over-stated.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Of qualified starters, which Doubront is not (2-3 innings short), his ERA would rank 7th to last in the American Leauge. My point is why not try something else. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    His era is blown up by 2 bad outings( out of 13, 1 inrelief) where he allowed 12 earned runs. He is young...He needs to pitch. You'll be thesame guy that will want to trade Webster, Barnes, Ranaudo etc when they come the first yr or 2 and struggle to figure it out. In fact...I'm pretty sure you were calling to trade Buch a few yrs back weren't you? When are you going to understand that developing young pitchers takes time, and if you can give them the innings they need as a 5th starter good things can happen....

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mjagger's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to mjagger's comment:

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

    Douby has been a bullpen killer since day one. Too bad killing the bullpen isn't against the law, because Douby would now be pitching for the state prison team and no longer be a problem for the SOX.

     

     

     

     



    He gets about 1 less out per start than our other starters or the league average.

     

     

     

     

    I don't see how this is killing our pen.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey Moon, I really respect your knowledge of baseball and your going the extra mile with stats and facts, but we will never agree about Doubront. I just don't see him becoming anymore than what he is now. Maybe he would be better suited in the pen.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think you have read everything I have written about Doubront. I have suggested trading him for over a year. I do not like his motivational issues. I think we can upgrade at SP, but I was just pointing out that his taxing of our pen is being over-stated.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Of qualified starters, which Doubront is not (2-3 innings short), his ERA would rank 7th to last in the American Leauge. My point is why not try something else. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The methodology is flawed.  By comparing him to qualified starters, you are comparing him to the best in the league.  You don't get the most innings with being a very good pitcher.

    The better comparison is to see how he stands relative to the top-75 SPs in the AL, to see where he stands.  That presumably includes the top-5 from 15 teams.  FG doesn't give yuo a strict cut-off, since it only cuts off at even numbers.  However, 40 IPs includes 71 SPs, of which Doubront is #48.  Without regard for the Fenway affect, one would say he is a strong #4.  Accounting for the park, he is probably a weak #3.

    If you use FIP, he is #27, and if you use xFIP, he is #23.

    By most measures, he is a decent pitcher.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    His era is blown up by 2 bad outings( out of 13, 1 inrelief) where he allowed 12 earned runs...

    Most pitchers' numbers would greatly benefit if you threw out theri worst 2 games.

     

    Here's a closer look: you have to go down to 30 IP to get a sample size of 77 American League starting pitchers in the sample size (5 starters per team x 15 AL teams = 75 top starter by IP). This is where the Sox starters place:

    (Before today's game)

    1) Buchholz  1.71

    15) Lackey  3.08

    39) Lester   4.12 (4.37 would place him 48th)

    42) Dempster  4.21

    50) Doubront   4.45

    If you count pitchers #1-15 as #1 starters, 16-30 as #2's etc...

    Buch and Lackey are #1s, Lester and Dempster are #3s, and Doubront is a #4.

    Looking at WHIP and the top 77 starters by IP:

    7) Buchholz  1.02 (Still a #1)

    24) Lackey    1.21 (a #2)

    37) Lester      1.29 (a #3)

    42) Dempster 1.33 (a #3)

    66) Doubront  1.55 (a #5)

     

    Combining the two (ERA and WHIP):

    Buch is a solid #1.

    Lackey is a top #2.

    Lester is a #3 nearing a 4.

    Dempster is a low #3.

    Doubront  is a low #4.

     

    One more look (SIERA & tERA) + (combined ranking)

    15) Buchholz 3.47  & 6) 3.05  (a #1)

    16) Lackey    3.49  & 37) 4.39 (a #2)

    28) Doubront 3.89 & 56) 4.92 (a #3)

    32) Dempster 3.94 & 58) 4.98 (a bottom #3)

    41) Lester       4.06 & 50) 4.81 (a #4)

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Starters Like Felix Doubront Hinder the team

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    And if you don't want to trade significant prospects for a 2 month rental then why would you even consider trading Doubront?

    I've explained why a hundred times. Will doing it 101 times finally get to at least understand my position? Remember, understanding someon'es position does not mean you have to agree with it. Here, I'll simplify it for you one last time:

    1) Doubront has attitude and motivational issues, that in my opinion are not easily changed at his age. I don't want a pitcher with motivational issues starting a big game for us, if I can get someone better who has no issues like that.

    2) Doubront has skills and 4+ years of team control. I have never doubted he has high value to both us and other teams. Wanting to trade him is not saying I think he stinks. I feel his value might mean more to another GM, and that GM would overpay for those years of control at a low cost. Low cost is not as important to the Sox as other teams. I do not think that concept is so hard to grasp.

    3) I WILL NOT TRADE DOUBRONT FOR LESSER VALUE or a 2 month rental. I do not think 26 months of control for Doubront is woth 2 months of a #2 or 3 starter. I would trade prospects that we may lose to rule 5 or because of rule 5 roster adjustments for a 2 month rental, but I'd prefer we find someone who will at leats be here in 2014 as well.

     

    Sox4ever



    Imagine how good Doubrant could be if he didn't have those "motivational or attitude" issues that you keep bringing up. I would be inclined to leave that up to the F.O and his coaches to decide if he has those issues. As long as he keeps pitching the way he has been then he should keep getting the ball every 5th day

     And you keep saying you would like to "upgrade" his spot in the rotation, but....with who? You're a little to vague with your stance. As I've said since last winter, andwhen he wasn't going to well, Doubront will put up better numbers than Lester this yr and if we get into the playoffs will get a start, and prob game 2 or 3 IMO...

     

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