Starting Bard

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from natepioneer1. Show natepioneer1's posts

    Starting Bard

    Now for a little recent history and I submit, Adam Wainwright, CJ Wilson and Alexi Ogando

    Wainwright in 06 was 24 and he pitched 61 innings all in relief.  Ayear later he threw 202 all as a starter and won 14 with a 3.70. 

    In 09 Wilson had 74 appearances, all in relief at age 28.  he went into the rotation in 2010, pitched 204, won 15 with a 3.35.  All starts.  Then in the PS, he started three more times (no BP), including once in the WS.  He got better the next year and jumped to 223.  And where is he now and at how much money?

    Ogando is the most recent From 41.2 to 169, he started 29 times, went to the BP late and pitched out of the BP in the PS.  He won 13 in the regular season with a 3.51.  The change came at ages 25 to 26.

    It appears that Rangers are ready to do it again with Feliz, who threw 64 innings at age 23.  Why not, it seems to have worked with Ogando and Wilson.  Now that they have Nathan, they feel they can take Feliz out of the BP.

    Why is it such a problem with Bard, especially if they don't jump all the way to 175, 180, etc.  Sure he would be a plus in the bullpen, which is all the more reason that I think Aceves is headed back there.  With the additions of Melancon and Bailey and perhaps some more consistency from the rest of the bullpen, including other new blood like Doubront, Bowden, maybe Miller, Mortenson, Carpnter and on and on, they should have it covered. 

    Remember what the Rangers bullpen looked like before the trading deadline--Feliz and ?????.  What was the Cardinals bullpen like going into August.  Who knew anything about Jason Motte.  I'm sure even they didn't expect him to be helping lead them to the WS championship?

    Yes, there is the Joba Chamberlain spectre hanging over this, but maybe there is something tothe way how the Yankees handle these things that plays into it.  Examples---Hughes, Aceves and that is recently.

    Whatever it is that the Rangers do, follow it.

    Let's be patient.  This could work out very well.




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    Well written NP1,I agree. I think it will work out well, Bard started all thru college. Back in the day nearly all pitchers started in the bullpen then became starters.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    I am worried about Bailey and how they have babied this guy right now. One injury with him and Bard is going to have to be shifted back to closing. Bailey really worries me especially with his history of injuries.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    In Response to Re: Starting Bard:
    [QUOTE]I am worried about Bailey and how they have babied this guy right now. One injury with him and Bard is going to have to be shifted back to closing. Bailey really worries me especially with his history of injuries.
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]
    No question that Bailey's propensity for injury is real. If he goes down and hopefully Bard is doing well as a starter, I don't see Bard going back to close under that scenario. Most likely Melancon or Aceves would take over and BC would be looking for a trade prior to the deadline.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    In response to "Re: Starting Bard": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Starting Bard : No question that Bailey's propensity for injury is real. If he goes down and hopefully Bard is doing well as a starter, I don't see Bard going back to close under that scenario. Most likely Melancon or Aceves would take over and BC would be looking for a trade prior to the deadline. Posted by sindarin-erebor[/QUOTE] Exactly. If Bailey goes down, it would be Melancon as closer. They aren't going to pull Bard from the rotation unless he has a disastrous spring, which is very unlikely.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from nonola. Show nonola's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    There are way to many people giving to much support to Bard. Right now we can only hope that this works out. Yeah there are examples of sucsess but we would be crazy to write in 18-7 with an ERA under 3. And oh yeah, god forbid injury. Remember he's a pitcher for the red sox.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from natepioneer1. Show natepioneer1's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    18-7!!!  No one is mentioning that.  If his innings were managed, there is no way he would have enough starts to get there.  That's 25 decisions and to do that you are pretty much talking a full season of starts like 32 or 33.  There will be several NDs. 

    Making 12-18 starts and winning 9-13 games is being optimistic and should we be optimistic.  It is not overly so. 

    What the other option? Be pessimisitic which is tantamount to rooting against his success and thus the team's. 

    I think way too many people go out of their way to find ways to see things failing.  Whatver move they make, some like to find a reason why this or that won't work.  Not very productive.

     I would expect people to support Bard.  If the decision is to go with him as a starter, then I hope he succeeds.  Succeeding in his first year are numbers similar to what I said above.  Actually that is rather modest.  Given what others have done recently, why shouldn't Bard do something similar.

    If this works and there is good reason to think that it should.  They have young hard throwing pitcher with great stuff and he is under control for quite a while.  That along with 28 year old Lester, 27 year old Buccholz and 32 year old Beckett.  Like him or not, Lackey is coming back next year at 33 and if the TJ surgery was th issue and he gets back to at least the Lackey of LA, they have an awfully good rotation through 2015.

    Somewhere in there, Renaudo, Barnes and whoever else they draft in the next year or so should be knocking on the door.  That doesn't even count the POSSIBLE emergence of a 24 year old Doubront or a 27 year old Miller (he WAS a first round draft choice, so something is there).  there are others in the low minors who haven't made a name for themselves yet like Barnes and Renaudo as well.




    In Response to Re: Starting Bard:
    [QUOTE]There are way to many people giving to much support to Bard. Right now we can only hope that this works out. Yeah there are examples of sucsess but we would be crazy to write in 18-7 with an ERA under 3. And oh yeah, god forbid injury. Remember he's a pitcher for the red sox.
    Posted by nonola[/QUOTE]
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    Derek Lowe and Justin Masterson.

    Lowe went from 90 innings 1 year to 220 innings the next.  And was arguably the most durable starter in all of baseball over the next decade as a starter.

    Masterson was converted to a starter mid-season when traded to Cleveland and after only a month of starting was throwing 100+ pitches in an outing.

    Extending Bard to a starters workload is not nearly as a big a deal as some want to make it.  His success as a starter will depend on his ability and effectiveness, not on durability and stamina.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    Bard wants to a starter, because lets face it, they can potentially make more money that middle, set-up and closers. Period. My only concern is that if something happens to Bailey two months into and Bard is asked to go to the pen, he will have thrown too many pitches already, which can really mess up things from there...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    In Response to Re: Starting Bard:
    [QUOTE]Bard wants to a starter, because lets face it, they can potentially make more money that middle, set-up and closers. Period. My only concern is that if something happens to Bailey two months into and Bard is asked to go to the pen, he will have thrown too many pitches already, which can really mess up things from there...
    Posted by beavis[/QUOTE]

    Thats where Mark Melancon comes in
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    In Response to Re: Starting Bard:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Starting Bard : Thats where Mark Melancon comes in
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    You better not draft him...:)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Starting Bard

    In Response to Re: Starting Bard:
    [QUOTE]Bard wants to a starter, because lets face it, they can potentially make more money that middle, set-up and closers. Period. My only concern is that if something happens to Bailey two months into and Bard is asked to go to the pen, he will have thrown too many pitches already, which can really mess up things from there...
    Posted by beavis[/QUOTE]

    You are realistically going to have contingency plans in place for all injuries but if Bard is named a starter, I seriously doubt he would be moved back to the Pen if there were an injury to Bailey or any other BP arm. 

    We all know you can never plan for injuries but that doesn't mean you plan in fear of them either.
     
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