Striking out

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Striking out

    There seems to be a current belief around baseball that strikeouts are okay. No different than any other out. Some attribute this to the moneyball philosophy. I strongly disagree. On any ball put into play , something good may happen. On a strikeout , nothing good happens. It used to be that a strikeout was embarrassing unless you were a big time home run hitter. Now it is becoming almost acceptable. The Sox are striking out at an alarming rate.  We have some guys who , with two strikes , are very likely to strike out. It is almost expected. None of them are breaking any home run records , to say the least. I think it is important to protect the plate with two strikes. Put the ball in play. Something might come of it. Our hitters have got to focus on making contact. Cut down on the K's.   What say you ? 

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Striking out

    I'm not disagreeing with you, but I haven't read that strikeouts are preferable to putting balls in play.  Where does this notion come from?

    I do agree 100% that putting a ball in play is certainly more advantageous than striking out.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    There seems to be a current belief around baseball that strikeouts are okay. No different than any other out. Some attribute this to the moneyball philosophy. I strongly disagree. On any ball put into play , something good may happen. On a strikeout , nothing good happens. It used to be that a strikeout was embarrassing unless you were a big time home run hitter. Now it is becoming almost acceptable. The Sox are striking out at an alarming rate.  We have some guys who , with two strikes , are very likely to strike out. It is almost expected. None of them are breaking any home run records , to say the least. I think it is important to protect the plate with two strikes. Put the ball in play. Something might come of it. Our hitters have got to focus on making contact. Cut down on the K's.   What say you ? 



    I started a thread about this a week ago. They are on pace to set the all time American league record and they are close to the ML record.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Striking out

    Yes, far too many strikouts and often almost expected from certain guys.

    Something must be done to help the Sox hitters to better recognize the slider/cutter/curve balls that they continually miss with two strikes.

    You can almost go to the refridgerator when Saltalamacchia, Middlebrooks and Gomes get to a two strike count.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    There seems to be a current belief around baseball that strikeouts are okay. No different than any other out. Some attribute this to the moneyball philosophy. I strongly disagree. On any ball put into play , something good may happen. On a strikeout , nothing good happens. It used to be that a strikeout was embarrassing unless you were a big time home run hitter. Now it is becoming almost acceptable. The Sox are striking out at an alarming rate.  We have some guys who , with two strikes , are very likely to strike out. It is almost expected. None of them are breaking any home run records , to say the least. I think it is important to protect the plate with two strikes. Put the ball in play. Something might come of it. Our hitters have got to focus on making contact. Cut down on the K's.   What say you ? 

     



    Only two teams in baseball have more than our 329 SO's.  The errors also keep piling up so no excuses for our clubs recent dive into 3rd place, we are simply not that good. 


     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    There seems to be a current belief around baseball that strikeouts are okay. No different than any other out. Some attribute this to the moneyball philosophy. I strongly disagree. On any ball put into play , something good may happen. On a strikeout , nothing good happens. It used to be that a strikeout was embarrassing unless you were a big time home run hitter. Now it is becoming almost acceptable. The Sox are striking out at an alarming rate.  We have some guys who , with two strikes , are very likely to strike out. It is almost expected. None of them are breaking any home run records , to say the least. I think it is important to protect the plate with two strikes. Put the ball in play. Something might come of it. Our hitters have got to focus on making contact. Cut down on the K's.   What say you ? 



    There seems to be a current belief around baseball that strikeouts are okay

    U can put me on that list

    or at least the list that says they aren't as bad as many act like they are

    other than fantasy BB of course ;-)

    if there's no one on base who cares

    if there are 2 outs who cares

    yet these K's are included when look at a batters total K's

    just like hits

    it's more about when than how many

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    There seems to be a current belief around baseball that strikeouts are okay. No different than any other out. Some attribute this to the moneyball philosophy. I strongly disagree. On any ball put into play , something good may happen. On a strikeout , nothing good happens. It used to be that a strikeout was embarrassing unless you were a big time home run hitter. Now it is becoming almost acceptable. The Sox are striking out at an alarming rate.  We have some guys who , with two strikes , are very likely to strike out. It is almost expected. None of them are breaking any home run records , to say the least. I think it is important to protect the plate with two strikes. Put the ball in play. Something might come of it. Our hitters have got to focus on making contact. Cut down on the K's.   What say you ? 

     



    There seems to be a current belief around baseball that strikeouts are okay

     

    U can put me on that list

    or at least the list that says they aren't as bad as many act like they are

    other than fantasy BB of course ;-)

    if there's no one on base who cares

    if there are 2 outs who cares

    yet these K's are included when look at a batters total K's

    just like hits

    it's more about when than how many




    I think the point is, zac, if a ball is in play anything can happen. He bobbles it and your safe, an errant throw, etc.. Errors can happen when you get bat on ball, extending an inning. How often have we seen that happen.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Striking out

    GM 777

    I think the point is, zac, if a ball is in play anything can happen. He bobbles it and your safe, an errant throw, etc.. Errors can happen when you get bat on ball, extending an inning. How often have we seen that happen.

    I know but I figure the possibility of hitting into a DP

    equalizes a lot of  that

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    There seems to be a current belief around baseball that strikeouts are okay. No different than any other out. Some attribute this to the moneyball philosophy. I strongly disagree. On any ball put into play , something good may happen. On a strikeout , nothing good happens. It used to be that a strikeout was embarrassing unless you were a big time home run hitter. Now it is becoming almost acceptable. The Sox are striking out at an alarming rate.  We have some guys who , with two strikes , are very likely to strike out. It is almost expected. None of them are breaking any home run records , to say the least. I think it is important to protect the plate with two strikes. Put the ball in play. Something might come of it. Our hitters have got to focus on making contact. Cut down on the K's.   What say you ? 

     




    Agree, easiest out in Baseball. Anything can happen when you just make contact.  With men on base, and especially when men are in scoring Position, just not a productive Out. There ways you can make Outs in Baseball and still be Productive, to help win. K's wont do it. Not counting errors.
    Good Point at guys who K a lot and just and just dont have the Power numbers to make it feasible. Reggie Jackson biggest K leader of all time but, he was avgeraging 40-50 hrs a year to Offest ( a little) his High K rate. Guys who K 150-200 times with 20-25 HRS, is ridiculous.
    I blame the Players, for not realizing this. Cut down on their swing, maybe choke up on the bat, and just work harder to cut down on K's. To know their strike-zone.

     

     

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    GM 777

    I think the point is, zac, if a ball is in play anything can happen. He bobbles it and your safe, an errant throw, etc.. Errors can happen when you get bat on ball, extending an inning. How often have we seen that happen.

    I know but I figure the possibility of hitting into a DP

    equalizes a lot of  that




    Yes, that would be one of the negatives. But only with someone on. I see both sides, but differ depending on the situation.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to mryazz's comment:

    striking out a lot, however, does cut down on the wear and tear of the baseballs and bats, prolonging the life of both. this saves the owners money and should be reflected in ticket prices.




    It really is amazing how your brain works sometimes. Thats not a dig either. Im serious.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Striking out

    DP's are never good, but I wonder how many DP's are averaged in a game? 1, 2? Not good of course. Then look at 10+ K's in a game, in the situation, how many runners left on base, and in scoring position, nothing happens. You take your chances on the Human element, when you make contact. Even nature could make this difficult. Ball hitting bad spot, wind, sun. Even bad communication between Fielders.
    I wonder how many Ballplayers today, who actually look at the Defensive alignment Infielders and Outfielders are Playing them to get a Good idea of how a Pitcher is going to Pitch them, to help them in their approach in their at bat.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    DP's are never good, but I wonder how many DP's are averaged in a game? 1, 2? Not good of course. Then look at 10+ K's in a game, in the situation, how many runners left on base, and in scoring position, nothing happens. You take your chances on the Human element, when you make contact. Even nature could make this difficult. Ball hitting bad spot, wind, sun. Even bad communication between Fielders.
    I wonder how many Ballplayers today, who actually look at the Defensive alignment Infielders and Outfielders are Playing them to get a Good idea of how a Pitcher is going to Pitch them, to help them in their approach in their at bat.



    not sure if that's the right way of looking at it roy

    at least not for my side of the argument ;-)

    seriously I've been pondering how many DP's per gm vs errors

    I'm guessing DP have the edge

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Striking out

    Im looking at it as Outs. Easy one's at that. Errors could or could not happen, K's are automatic.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    DP's are never good, but I wonder how many DP's are averaged in a game? 1, 2? Not good of course. Then look at 10+ K's in a game, in the situation, how many runners left on base, and in scoring position, nothing happens. You take your chances on the Human element, when you make contact. Even nature could make this difficult. Ball hitting bad spot, wind, sun. Even bad communication between Fielders.
    I wonder how many Ballplayers today, who actually look at the Defensive alignment Infielders and Outfielders are Playing them to get a Good idea of how a Pitcher is going to Pitch them, to help them in their approach in their at bat.

    not sure if that's the right way of looking at it roy

    at least not for my side of the argument ;-)

    seriously I've been pondering how many DP's per gm vs errors

    I'm guessing DP have the edge


    This season MLB teams have committed 639 errors and turned 1,032 double plays:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2013-standard-fielding.shtml

    The Red Sox have committed 23 errors and turned 34 double plays.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

    DP's are never good, but I wonder how many DP's are averaged in a game? 1, 2? Not good of course. Then look at 10+ K's in a game, in the situation, how many runners left on base, and in scoring position, nothing happens. You take your chances on the Human element, when you make contact. Even nature could make this difficult. Ball hitting bad spot, wind, sun. Even bad communication between Fielders.
    I wonder how many Ballplayers today, who actually look at the Defensive alignment Infielders and Outfielders are Playing them to get a Good idea of how a Pitcher is going to Pitch them, to help them in their approach in their at bat.

    not sure if that's the right way of looking at it roy

    at least not for my side of the argument ;-)

    seriously I've been pondering how many DP's per gm vs errors

    I'm guessing DP have the edge


    This season MLB teams have committed 639 errors and turned 1,032 double plays:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2013-standard-fielding.shtml

     

    The Red Sox have committed 23 errors and turned 34 double plays.




    So what would your conclusion be, Hill, seeing all the numbers?

    Are in fact K's overrated? Whats your view?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Striking out

    Your right though a DP is counted as 2 outs, to a K's one.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Striking out

    This season MLB teams have committed 639 errors and turned 1,032 double plays:

    thanks hill

    not even close

    the odds of hitting into a DP are much larger

    than reaching on an error

    and those numbers are distorted because the DP opportunities are much less

    than making an error

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Striking out

    The possibility of reaching on an error is not the only benefit of putting the ball in play. You might get a base hit, even an extra base hit. You could make an out , but move up a runner. Maybe a sac fly. The double play would usually only occur with a runner on first base and less than two outs. It is kind of hard to justify a strikeout by saying " at least he didn't hit into a double play." 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Striking out

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    The possibility of reaching on an error is not the only benefit of putting the ball in play. You might get a base hit, even an extra base hit. You could make an out , but move up a runner. Maybe a sac fly. The double play would usually only occur with a runner on first base and less than two outs. It is kind of hard to justify a strikeout by saying " at least he didn't hit into a double play." 



    guess you weren't a sox fan when boggs and rice played ;-)

    point taken

    I was never trying to justify a K

    just saying they are as bad as some say

     

    not relevent but I always found this don mattinly quote interesting

    he said he wished he struck out more

    what he meant was he wished he swung & missed more

    because then he could get anthor pitch in that AB

    rather than just getting a piece and  hitting the ball weekly

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Striking out

    Hey pinstripezac35 what's up?  Laughing

    You should change your avatar since your Yankees are in first place.   

    Your Yankees are like the San Antonio Spurs: Old but good   

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Striking out

    Are there any statistics kept on "productive outs" other than SH's and SF's? An analysis that only looks at errors and DP's is incomplete. Need to look at SH's, SF's, and those outs that advance runners. Those are the numbers we need to get a better handle on this.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Striking out


    greetings ice cream

    you should change your avatar since your Yankees are in first place.

    maybe so someone else mentioned it yesterday 

    Your Yankees are like the San Antonio Spurs: Old but good

    excuse me

    the yanks R like no one

    perhaps the spurs R like the yanks :-)

    kidding aside IC

    the yanks R like last yrs O's

     

     

     

     

    By Matthew Leach

    It may look like magic, but in large part, it's very simple. It's the bullpen. The Yanks have MLB's second-best record despite the seventh-best run differential thanks to the fact they just don't lose leads.

    New York is 19-0 when leading after six innings, 22-0 when leading after seven and 22-0 when leading after eight. The Yankees have lost twice all year after having a lead at any point in a ballgame. They're 8-2 in one-run games and 16-5 in one- or two-run games.

    And that dude in the ninth? He's pretty good. Mariano Rivera is 16-for-16 in save opportunities, with the season less than one quarter over. A team that must win one-run games, that must not let leads get away, is sticking to that script.

     

     
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