Strong Up The Middle

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Strong Up The Middle

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    Not sure many would say even if we put the same exact team on the field in 2014 that we would repeat. Rosters change its part of the game, while I agree its mportant to be strong up the middle. Putting a player on the field like Boegarts who is probably the next big thing in Boston can't hurt. Salty was never strong defensively. The loss will be Ells, but his loss won't be defensvely. The ? is how much offense does JBJ give us. Would like to see Drew back on 1yr if for nothing elsesome depth for SS-3b positions, should Bogey or WMB struggle. But if JBJ is as good as many think he can be RS will be a very good team next yr!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.

    [/QUOTE]

    interesting...I guess that's why we play the games...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.



    I have have been saying the same for quite some time Youk.  If we start the season with our present team it will be VERY VERY interesting to watch not only Bogy and JBJ's defense up the middle but whether or not Middy can really become that hitter we really need in the middle of the lineup. 

    Even more interesting to watch is how our FO reacts if things don't go so well.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I have have been saying the same for quite some time Youk.  If we start the season with our present team it will be VERY VERY interesting to watch not only Bogy and JBJ's defense up the middle but whether or not Middy can really become that hitter we really need in the middle of the lineup. 

     

    Even more interesting to watch is how our FO reacts if things don't go so well.

    [/QUOTE]

    Technically, we're only changing at two of three with Ross who took over as the starter during the World Series platooning with Pierzinski. 

    Rest assured that Cherington and Farrel both have already discussed the what if senerios on all three and I'm not convinced the roster is set with more than a month to go before camp opens. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    I think part of staying ahead is not worrying about history.  We need to be trailblazers.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    Here' the rub.....

    If you bring back Drew, you're stuck playing him.  You simply don't bring in a guy for 1 yr at 9+ M for "depth." This moves XB out of SS where we want him.  Which leaves Middy out of the loop, unless we  want to use him to "spell" at 3rd & 1st.  I don't like it!  Time to move on & grow for the future.  Yes!   We will absolutely need a decent utility back up, but not a 9M $ guy.

    As for CF & C, I'm cautiously optimistic. 

    Oh let the games begin. :)

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    C: Better defense- probably worse offense

    SS: Better offense- worse defense

    CF: Same or possibly better defense- worse offense

    2B: Same-same

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here' the rub.....

    If you bring back Drew, you're stuck playing him.  You simply don't bring in a guy for 1 yr at 9+ M for "depth." This moves XB out of SS where we want him.  Which leaves Middy out of the loop, unless we  want to use him to "spell" at 3rd & 1st.  I don't like it!  Time to move on & grow for the future.  Yes!   We will absolutely need a decent utility back up, but not a 9M $ guy.

    As for CF & C, I'm cautiously optimistic. 

    Oh let the games begin. :)

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe I'm more conservative than most but the thought of rookies at SS & CF at the same time scares the he-- out of me.  It does have the potential to be the start of a good, cost controlled team, but it also has the potential of being an 80 win team.

    Were it up to me I'd sign Drew and either stockpile Bogarts in Pawtucket or use him as the UIF while letting JBJ get accustomed to CF.  Then in 2015 I'd bring Bogarts in at SS with JBJ having a years experience behind him.

    This thing as they're doing it has too many eggs in two baskets and if either basket fails the team could struggle badly. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nobody ever came back from 3 games down before in the playoffs... how did that work out?

    In CF we have a gold glove caliber defender.  Both AJP and Ross are superior defenders to Salty.  The only position that we lose out a bit of defense with is short, but his offense is at least as good with the upside of league best.

    I like our chances

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    Maybe I'm more conservative than most but the thought of rookies at SS & CF at the same time scares the he-- out of me.  It does have the potential to be the start of a good, cost controlled team, but it also has the potential of being an 80 win team.

    Were it up to me I'd sign Drew and either stockpile Bogarts in Pawtucket or use him as the UIF while letting JBJ get accustomed to CF.  Then in 2015 I'd bring Bogarts in at SS with JBJ having a years experience behind him.

    This thing as they're doing it has too many eggs in two baskets and if either basket fails the team could struggle badly. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Let me start out by saying that a top five prospect in the league won't be a utility infielder.  If he is going to play he will get full time at a position somewhere.  Would Nomar or Hanley Ramirez be best off by playing a year as a utility infielder before they got a full playing time?

    The method that Theo used to preach when he was first running the shots with the Red Sox was to bring up one impact rookie per year.  He wanted to break him in to keep a constant stream of rookies without upsetting the balance too much of a winning team.

    I am not nervous about either player starting the year in the bigs, but I am nervous for the depth behind both players right away.  As we have seen with Pedroia... even the best can struggle out of the gate for a while.  We will have some learning on the job moments, but I think with Xander you have a special talent available.  He trumps that conservative approach because he adds a different level of offense to a position where it is very low. 

    The financials in baseball also changed and I don't think that we can be as conservative as we have been in the past with prospects.  In order to build a sustainable success, we must inject some more low cost quality players right now.  We are basically at the luxury tax limit right now and don't have the money to pay Drew... it's that simple unless we trade away Dempster.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    The Sox are the World Series champions, but have done little or nothing to improve the team this off season. Will that formula work ?  Stay tuned to find out. To some on here , Cherington has made his bones , and can do no wrong. Let's see if that support remains if the club falters this coming season.  Our success will depend on the health of the veterans and the performance of the kids, especially in how well Bradley does in replacing Ellsbury. There is a wide range of possibilities. We could possibly repeat, or we could fall completely out of contention. I think , as Sox fans , we should expect the best. We should never be satisfied with failure because we won it all the previous year. And, I do get the sense that many feel that we are playing with house money this year and are ready and willing to accept losing in 2014. My feeling is that in life, in business and in sports, you should always try to improve. I do not think the Sox have done that this off season. If you want to accuse me of being negative, go right ahead. But I was one of the very few who predicted last Spring that the Sox had an outstanding team , one that had a real chance to win it all. So, I don't consider myself negative at all. Just objective. Objectively speaking, this has not been a productive off season. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    I always thought "strong up the middle" was more about the defense up the middle than the offesne:

    CF: close to GG caliber

    2B: Gold Glove

    SS: Below average

    C" Above average

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    Bring back Drew and play Xander at third.  I have zero confidence in Middlebrooks.  We've upgraded at catcher for the coming season, and the future looks bright at that position.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    C: Better defense- probably worse offense

    SS: Better offense- worse defense

    CF: Same or possibly better defense- worse offense

    2B: Same-same

    [/QUOTE]

    SS is all about defense IMO. Also having a strong working relationship with second base. We had that covered with Drew. It's unbelievable they're going to leave that up to chance, especially when they don't have to, and we had the best SS there just last season.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nobody ever came back from 3 games down before in the playoffs... how did that work out?

    In CF we have a gold glove caliber defender.  Both AJP and Ross are superior defenders to Salty.  The only position that we lose out a bit of defense with is short, but his offense is at least as good with the upside of league best.

    I like our chances

    [/QUOTE]

    So we have better offense at SS? Big whoop.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    I agree about SS defense, and that is why I was advocating moving Bogey to 3B last winter. I also would not have been surprised if we had done that, Bogey would be a better defensive 3Bman than Middy by now.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nobody ever came back from 3 games down before in the playoffs... how did that work out?

    In CF we have a gold glove caliber defender.  Both AJP and Ross are superior defenders to Salty.  The only position that we lose out a bit of defense with is short, but his offense is at least as good with the upside of league best.

    I like our chances

    [/QUOTE]

    So we have better offense at SS? Big whoop.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is a big whoop, whenever a team can get above average production from a middle infielder or a catcher it's a competitive advantage. Bogaerts projects to be a middle of the order bat. Which is why I've said all winter that the Yanks signing of McCan is a greater upgrade for them then either Beltran or Ellsbury. Here's the deal while Bogaerts is unlikely to ever be a gold glove SS, that doesn't mean he'll be a liability. If the the Red Sox felt that Bogaerts did not have the tools to play SS, given his upside potential as a hitter. They'd have moved him to 3rd or the outfiled in A Ball. So if they open the season with him there, we have to trust that Cherinton and Farrel both believe that he's ready and able. 

    If we turn back the clock, this debate reminds me of 2005 when we had another can't miss SS in our system, who's bio then was very similar to Bogaerts now. His name is Hanley Ramirez who's evolved into a respectable defensive SS after years of speculation that he would be moved to 3B or the OF. I'm not implying that Hanley is a gold glover by any means, but he doesn't hurt his team and the sum of his parts makes him an above average player at his position. 

    That said, if they sign Drew, then it's clear that both don't see Bogaerts as having the ability to be an everyday big league SS. If that happens, they'll move him to third to be the everyday third baseman, leaving Middlebrooks the odd man out. A senerio that will play itself out in the next month.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle


    Just researched the last twenty WS winners, the only team to change all of their starters at C, SS and CF, and then win the Series was the 2003 Florida Marlins. Ivan Rodriguez, Alex Gonzales and Juan Pierre were first year starters for the Marlins. Six out of twenty winners instituted no change at all. The most common position to change and produce a WS win was Catcher; seven times, Shortstop; 5 times, and Centerfield; 3 times. Looks like consistency at CF is vitally important. 

    Side note, the NYY will be stating a new CF(ELLS), C(McCann) and SS (JETER) over last year. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.



    Nobody ever came back from 3 games down before in the playoffs... how did that work out?

    In CF we have a gold glove caliber defender.  Both AJP and Ross are superior defenders to Salty.  The only position that we lose out a bit of defense with is short, but his offense is at least as good with the upside of league best.

    I like our chances

    [/QUOTE]

    So we have better offense at SS? Big whoop.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is a big whoop, whenever a team can get above average production from a middle infielder or a catcher it's a competitive advantage. Bogaerts projects to be a middle of the order bat. Which is why I've said all winter that the Yanks signing of McCan is a greater upgrade for them then either Beltran or Ellsbury. Here's the deal while Bogaerts is unlikely to ever be a gold glove SS, that doesn't mean he'll be a liability. If the the Red Sox felt that Bogaerts did not have the tools to play SS, given his upside potential as a hitter. They'd have moved him to 3rd or the outfiled in A Ball. So if they open the season with him there, we have to trust that Cherinton and Farrel both believe that he's ready and able. 

    If we turn back the clock, this debate reminds me of 2005 when we had another can't miss SS in our system, who's bio then was very similar to Bogaerts now. His name is Hanley Ramirez who's evolved into a respectable defensive SS after years of speculation that he would be moved to 3B or the OF. I'm not implying that Hanley is a gold glover by any means, but he doesn't hurt his team and the sum of his parts makes him an above average player at his position. 

    That said, if they sign Drew, then it's clear that both don't see Bogaerts as having the ability to be an everyday big league SS. If that happens, they'll move him to third to be the everyday third baseman, leaving Middlebrooks the odd man out. A senerio that will play itself out in the next month.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's not a competitive advantage when his talents are more geared toward his offensive abilities as opposed to his defensive abilities at SS.  As I've said, I value defense over offense at that position. And as for Cherrington and Farrell believing or not believing he's able, management may just not want to sign a contract for Drew. They're dealing with the players they have. You have to know that plays into their confidence.

    Hanley Ramirez is more of a liability for any team. And it has nothing to do with his talents, which, apparently, are exceptional. It does say something when you use the word "evolved", however. You couldn't be talking about this season then.

    As for Middlebrooks, it wouldn't hurt to have Bogaerts given more time in AAA -- unless something happens, which is entirely possible.

    IMO they had the best SS, and possibly, over miniscule money issues, they will lose him. And it makes no sense to me.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.



    Nobody ever came back from 3 games down before in the playoffs... how did that work out?

    In CF we have a gold glove caliber defender.  Both AJP and Ross are superior defenders to Salty.  The only position that we lose out a bit of defense with is short, but his offense is at least as good with the upside of league best.

    I like our chances

    [/QUOTE]

    So we have better offense at SS? Big whoop.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is a big whoop, whenever a team can get above average production from a middle infielder or a catcher it's a competitive advantage. Bogaerts projects to be a middle of the order bat. Which is why I've said all winter that the Yanks signing of McCan is a greater upgrade for them then either Beltran or Ellsbury. Here's the deal while Bogaerts is unlikely to ever be a gold glove SS, that doesn't mean he'll be a liability. If the the Red Sox felt that Bogaerts did not have the tools to play SS, given his upside potential as a hitter. They'd have moved him to 3rd or the outfiled in A Ball. So if they open the season with him there, we have to trust that Cherinton and Farrel both believe that he's ready and able. 

    If we turn back the clock, this debate reminds me of 2005 when we had another can't miss SS in our system, who's bio then was very similar to Bogaerts now. His name is Hanley Ramirez who's evolved into a respectable defensive SS after years of speculation that he would be moved to 3B or the OF. I'm not implying that Hanley is a gold glover by any means, but he doesn't hurt his team and the sum of his parts makes him an above average player at his position. 

    That said, if they sign Drew, then it's clear that both don't see Bogaerts as having the ability to be an everyday big league SS. If that happens, they'll move him to third to be the everyday third baseman, leaving Middlebrooks the odd man out. A senerio that will play itself out in the next month.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's not a competitive advantage when his talents are more geared towards his offensive abilities as opposed to his defensive abilities at SS.  As I've said, I value defense over offense at that position. And as for Cherrington and Farrell believing or not believing he's able, management may just not want to sign a contract for Drew. They're dealing with the players they have. You have to know that plays into their confidence.

    Hanley Ramirez is more of a liability for any team. And it has nothing to do with his talents, which, apparently, are exceptional. It does say something when you use the word "evolved", however. You couldn't be talking about this season then.

    As for Middlebrooks, it wouldn't hurt to have Bogaerts given more time in AAA -- unless something happens, which is entirely possible.

    IMO they had the best SS, and possibly, over miniscule money issues, they will lose him. And it makes no sense to me.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Kim we can agree to disagree on what constitutes a competitive advantage. i respect your opinion, we just differ on the value of the difference between a gold glove SS that strikes out 135 times and hits .250 vs one that makes the routine play, look routine and is among the leaders at his position with the bat. Playing for the major league minimum, freeing up resources that can be used to address other needs. Which is what young Bogaerts projects to be..Nomar Garciaparra comes to mind so too does Derek Jeter. Please don't misinterpret my supporting them going with young Bogaerts, as I don't value defense at SS and would play him there even if he had hands of stone, cleary that's not the case. I trust that Cherington and Farrel (I think they've earned that), will do what they think is in the best interest of the team And if they see Bogaerts defense as a fatal flaw to our chances to field a championship team. there's no way they'd do that and the kid would already have been moved...

    Regarding Drew and his status with the Red Sox. Money and length of contract are certainly part of the why they haven't resigned him. It's also why he hasn't resigned with them... Bogaerts being ready to take the next step in his development is another. When you add to that the value of the draft pick they'll recieve if Drew signs elsewhere. As much as I too would like us to sign Drew (remeber they offered him a one year 14M qualifier that he and Scott Darth Vadar Boras chose to decline), because I too think the guy is a very good ball player and in the near term. It's easier to project the sum of the parts with Drew and Bogaerts on left side being greater than, one with Middlebrooks and Bogaerts. A conundrum that only the parties in control can effect change. 

    regarding Hanley, i get that the kid has had his share of issues....My use of the term evolved implies improvement, which is often overlooked by many on this board. With work young players can improve and many do, few arrive at the big league level polished defensive players, unless that the key tangible that helped to propel them through the system (Igelsias).

    I recall after his rookie season many on this board we're skeptical of Ellsbury's ability to play centerfield, using his UZR ratings as evidence and pining for the return of Coco Crisp with work he's now considered among the best defensive centerfielders in the game. 

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.

    [/QUOTE]

    May I congratulate you on a thought provoking thread!  While I was thinking about your post, I enjoyed the several posts immediately after it.  I don't know that you need a pat on the back, but this was an enjoyable and thoughtful read.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Sox are the World Series champions, but have done little or nothing to improve the team this off season. Will that formula work ?  Stay tuned to find out. To some on here , Cherington has made his bones , and can do no wrong. Let's see if that support remains if the club falters this coming season.  Our success will depend on the health of the veterans and the performance of the kids, especially in how well Bradley does in replacing Ellsbury. There is a wide range of possibilities. We could possibly repeat, or we could fall completely out of contention. I think , as Sox fans , we should expect the best. We should never be satisfied with failure because we won it all the previous year. And, I do get the sense that many feel that we are playing with house money this year and are ready and willing to accept losing in 2014. My feeling is that in life, in business and in sports, you should always try to improve. I do not think the Sox have done that this off season. If you want to accuse me of being negative, go right ahead. But I was one of the very few who predicted last Spring that the Sox had an outstanding team , one that had a real chance to win it all. So, I don't consider myself negative at all. Just objective. Objectively speaking, this has not been a productive off season. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Agree with alot your saying. But differ in this regard. While RS are playing w/ house $ in 2014. Maybe what RS need to do is get worse before they can get better? In other words putting JBJ, Bogey, and WMB may not be the best thing for 2014, playing young players always involves some bumps in the road [we remember Pedey]. But if these players turn out to be as good as most scouts predict, maybe they will be a better team in 15 and moving beyond. Lets not forget they also will be helped by the Owens / Barnes / Raunado / Swiharts /Cecchini / Webster / Betts and others that are also on the way. Maybe Bogey becomes a star right away and JBJ is the player we saw last ST, and WMB goes back to the same player he was in 2012 and the RS will go back to WS. IMO won't happen but for 15 and beyond this is probably the best approach. But in long run if you want to win 3 more WS in next 10 yrs this might be the right way to go. I also predicted RS would make playoffs in 2013 and many of the so called experts on this board [they know who they are] criticized this thinking. IMO RS may have to take a step back to take a step forward!

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Sox are the World Series champions, but have done little or nothing to improve the team this off season. Will that formula work ?  Stay tuned to find out. To some on here , Cherington has made his bones , and can do no wrong. Let's see if that support remains if the club falters this coming season.  Our success will depend on the health of the veterans and the performance of the kids, especially in how well Bradley does in replacing Ellsbury. There is a wide range of possibilities. We could possibly repeat, or we could fall completely out of contention. I think , as Sox fans , we should expect the best. We should never be satisfied with failure because we won it all the previous year. And, I do get the sense that many feel that we are playing with house money this year and are ready and willing to accept losing in 2014. My feeling is that in life, in business and in sports, you should always try to improve. I do not think the Sox have done that this off season. If you want to accuse me of being negative, go right ahead. But I was one of the very few who predicted last Spring that the Sox had an outstanding team , one that had a real chance to win it all. So, I don't consider myself negative at all. Just objective. Objectively speaking, this has not been a productive off season. 

    [/QUOTE]


    In order to improve sometimes you have to take a step back then 2-3 steps forward. That step back may look like regression, but its not. At some point you have to play the kids and just deal with the learning curve. Theres a lot of $$ coming off the books over the next 2 years. This team will look very different come 2015-2016 with a lot of prospects, homegrown vets and new FA signings.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Strong Up The Middle

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

     

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To be a solid winner, an old axiom in baseball is, that you must be strong up the middle, the 2014 Soz will be changing their starting C, SS and CF. I believe I once read , no team has ever won a WS with all new players at those positions in the same year. Not signing Drew, means we are challenging that convention.

     



    Nobody ever came back from 3 games down before in the playoffs... how did that work out?

     

    In CF we have a gold glove caliber defender.  Both AJP and Ross are superior defenders to Salty.  The only position that we lose out a bit of defense with is short, but his offense is at least as good with the upside of league best.

    I like our chances



    So we have better offense at SS? Big whoop.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is a big whoop, whenever a team can get above average production from a middle infielder or a catcher it's a competitive advantage. Bogaerts projects to be a middle of the order bat. Which is why I've said all winter that the Yanks signing of McCan is a greater upgrade for them then either Beltran or Ellsbury. Here's the deal while Bogaerts is unlikely to ever be a gold glove SS, that doesn't mean he'll be a liability. If the the Red Sox felt that Bogaerts did not have the tools to play SS, given his upside potential as a hitter. They'd have moved him to 3rd or the outfiled in A Ball. So if they open the season with him there, we have to trust that Cherinton and Farrel both believe that he's ready and able. 

    If we turn back the clock, this debate reminds me of 2005 when we had another can't miss SS in our system, who's bio then was very similar to Bogaerts now. His name is Hanley Ramirez who's evolved into a respectable defensive SS after years of speculation that he would be moved to 3B or the OF. I'm not implying that Hanley is a gold glover by any means, but he doesn't hurt his team and the sum of his parts makes him an above average player at his position. 

    That said, if they sign Drew, then it's clear that both don't see Bogaerts as having the ability to be an everyday big league SS. If that happens, they'll move him to third to be the everyday third baseman, leaving Middlebrooks the odd man out. A senerio that will play itself out in the next month.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thats not true. The both have already stated a number of times that they see Xander as an MLB SS. If they sign Drew, I believe Bogey starts in AAA and they give Middy every opportunity before pulling the plug on him. Regardless, if Drew is signed for one year I would still put $$ on Xander being the FT SS in 2015. He just turned 21 and honestly, it couldnt hurt having some more time in AAA to tweak his D a little more.

    I have no issue with Xander starting at SS this year or Drew for 1 more year. I see the logic in both scinarios. I think Xander will kick a few balls, but he has improved his D a lot over the last 2 years. Ive watched him play a lot over that time. He'll be just fine at SS. not sure I see many, if any, GG's, but as an overall SS he should be in the top 5 in MLB Like Drew is.

     
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