Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    Ownership paid a fortune and did deliver championship baseball through 2008. After that, Tito is the ultimate coward in blaming someone else other than himself and the players. To blame the owners is as pitiful as Obama blaming Bush for Obama's time in office.

    Come on Tito, let's drop the "clubhouse" crutch and stop the opinion about ownership forcing InEpstein to buy labor you and he didn't want and "an image" as the reason you and your millions to you and the players isn't to be discussed. Let's hear your opinion on Beckett, Ellsbury and other veteran cancers. Let's hear your opinion on your mistakes. Let's hear your opinion on Schilling as the veteran leader of 2004 and 2007.

    I'll never pay a dime for the words of Tito.



    So telling a manager to win more excitingly is fine?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    Is it any surprise to us that Henry, Luchinno, Werner etc... would hire a consultant to look into what probably were stable or dropping TV revenues? The NBA didn't take off until the Michael Jordan era. Stars do have a major impact in revenue generation. Baseball is a game but it is also a business. Both aspects of the organization need to be successful for the team to prosper both on and off the field.

    I would think that most of us would be intelligent enough to be aware of the above and generally support the above. Has the Henry group been tremendous for this city and the entire Redsox nation? Clearly they have. We should sing their praise regularly because they DESERVE IT. They manage the organization. They have done a tremendous job and we should appreciate them.

    And there is no indication that Henry etc...do not love baseball. Do you think they would have bought 2 baseball teams if they didn't love baseball? They could have done other things with their money. There was little indication 10 years ago that the industry would prosper to this degree. They could have done anything else with their money. They chose to put most of their assets into buying a baseball team. 

    Werner made his money in the TV business and so did I for 10 years of my life. For him to want to commission a study into how to generate more TV revenue is just a smart decision considering the overall revenue potential involved. It does help to have attractive players on the team, ergo Ellsbury as exhibit A. It does help in that regard to bring back Papi. Lots of their decisions are at least in part based upon the business impact of such decisions. It's a factor and rightfully so. And by the way, it's their business. I for one think they have done far more than we could ever expect from an ownership group. What a bunch of moaners.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    Did we win the championship in 2008? I must have been in a cave.



    Don't forget 2005 & 2006 when the Red Sox had zero playoff wins.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    Nice cat. What did that letter from Ted Williams say?




    He's my old Scottish Fold...somewhere around 20yrs old...don't know exactly, but the vet tells me he's the oldest cat he treats.  The secret?  good food...IAMs only.

    Went to the post office on my way to grammar school one morning and there's a letter for me in the box.  I was living in Mass. at the time and noticed the postmark was from Florida.

    It was from Ted Williams telling me that he heard I was a great ballplayer and to keep up the hard work and hopefully I'll play for the Red Sox some day etc., etc.

    I can assume it came from spring training, but to this day I don't have the foggiest idea who put him up to it.  It's signed, Your friend, Ted Williams.

    I still have the thing with the old envelope etc.

    Crazy, huh?

    Well, I never made it to the Red Sox, but the old Houston Colt-45's were interested.  But, that's another story.

     

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    I thought Tito's shirts made the game more exciting.  I thought the way he allowed Ortiz to barge into a live press conference, was really exciting.  Hearing about his cribbage games with dustin was what I waited for each night.

    The pictures of tito topless which he emailed to his gf, should have been made public during the season.

    When he talked about his playing days, I got goose bumps.




    You just can't stop capping on Big Papi can you?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    While I think that this ownership group is by far the best in Red Sox history, they certainly aren't perfect.  They seem to be out of touch with the fans at times and Lucchino has let his ego get in the way more than it should, but none of this stuff is uncommon in ANY billion dollar corporation.  I have a buddy from the DC area who is a Orioles/Skins fan.  Imagine having both Peter Angelos and Daniel Snyder as owners all of these years!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

     

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    I think it was Werner's way of telling Francona that the team was boring.  I couldn't much disagree with that feeling.

     


    The team was so boring that every home game was sold out for seven years.

     

     




     

    Yeah, and last year during a Yankee game, the guy next to me didn't know who Kevin Youkilis was.  It's all marketing my friend.  The real fans can't afford to attend.  But, it's what ownership wants.  Fill up the seats by giving blocks of tickets away for the impression they're all paid customers, or lure in as many pink hats as you can who don't know a thing about baseball.

     



    There are many  fans of many entertainment venues that can't afford to attend performances. I went to Fenway like you did last year and I was surrounded by knowledgeable fans and I didn't know how to ascertain if the fans were pink hats or not. What questions should one ask them ? Do I ask them if they became a fan after 2004? How many years of fandom erases the pink hat label or will they take it to their grave? If the real fans can't afford to attend games then why hate those who can? Please explain your logic?

     




    You make some good points....well taken.

    I guess what irks me are people who jump on the bandwagon because of popularity.  There is this pharmacy resident here in Oregon where I work who went to college in Boston.  She has a Red Sox tattoo on her ankle yet doesn't know who the second baseman is.

    This being said, I think there are more true fans not at the games because of expense than ones who show up and know all the verses of Sweet Caroline.

    Maybe I'm just a bitter old man who feels it's unfair for paper mache fans to wave the flag without ever having gone through the thin years.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    My wife became a fan in 2003 out of concern for my health. (She thought I might have a heart attack watching game 7 of the ALCS). She does not keep track of all the comings and goings of the Red Sox as I do, but she does ask me for information whenever we watch them on TV or go to a game. You will not find a better Red Sox fan. Not all fans are cut from the same cloth. In the case of rooting for the Red Sox, all are welcome.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In essence, I just dislike phonies.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    In essence, I just dislike phonies.

     



    What about pink hats who become fans? Isn't that possible? Were those who became fans in 1967 looked down upon by the oldtimers back then?

     




    You can dissect or cut frog hairs all you want.

    If you don't get my point by now, you never will.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from crix. Show crix's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

    Tito's new book gives his insight into the owners ....

       They like baseball

        They like marketing - which makes more money - more



    Coming from a man trying to make money marketing a tell-all book.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    In essence, I just dislike phonies.



    Right on!  

    Tito got his revenge for the leaks about his personal life.  We fans supported the Sox long before and, I suspect long after Henry et al. depart.  Winning was more important to Theo and Tito, than to the owners.  That is why this matters.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to crix's comment:

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

     

    Tito's new book gives his insight into the owners ....

       They like baseball

        They like marketing - which makes more money - more

     



    Coming from a man trying to make money marketing a tell-all book.

     




    I pre-ordered it.

    It should be interesting reading.

    I just wish Shaughnessy, the Schilling hater,  wasn't involved.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to crix's comment:

    Coming from a man trying to make money marketing a tell-all book.

    [/QUOTE]

    There is a difference.  Tito making money on a book is hardly equivalent to medling owners making marketing based trades and signings.



     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

    In response to crix's comment:

    Coming from a man trying to make money marketing a tell-all book.

    There is a difference.  Tito's making money on a book is hardly equivalent to medling owners making marketing based trades and signings.



    [/QUOTE]


    Absolutely!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    In essence, I just dislike phonies.




    I have a friend.  She's blonde.  She's pretty.  She LOVES the Red Sox and HATES the Yanquis.  She also always has a PINK Red Sox hat on the back shelf of her sedan.  

    She was a fan before 2003.  She's been a softball player since her high school days, some 20+ years ago.  And though she has always lived in Yanqui/Phillie territory, this happily pink hatted Sox fan finds no issue with her expression of fandom.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    In essence, I just dislike phonies.

     




    I have a friend.  She's blonde.  She's pretty.  She LOVES the Red Sox and HATES the Yanquis.  She also always has a PINK Red Sox hat on the back shelf of her sedan.  

     

    She was a fan before 2003.  She's been a softball player since her high school days, some 20+ years ago.  And though she has always lived in Yanqui/Phillie territory, this happily pink hatted Sox fan finds no issue with her expression of fandom.




    Yaz,

    My wife, who knows more about the Red Sox roster than most, wears a pink hat!

    She like the color.  What can I say?

    I think you know the type of fan I'm talking about.

    It's not about hat color.

    By the way, I've got a framed, MLB authenticated, signatured #8 hanging on our wall.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    Yaz,

    My wife, who knows more about the Red Sox roster than most, wears a pink hat!

    She like the color.  What can I say?

    I think you know the type of fan I'm talking about.

    It's not about hat color.

    By the way, I've got a framed, MLB authenticated, signatured #8 hanging on our wall.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Hehe ... yes, friend.   I just have to smile when ever I see her car go by. 

    And mark me as jealous - but it's great we can share those memories, eh? 

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    Aren't most trades made to better your team and isn't the motivation to do that based on ratings, attendance, and revenues. What is different here from what always goes on. wasn't Steinbrenner the champion of this? Francona isn't telling us anything earth-shattering.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pike this post is below your standard.  You used to be Tito's biggest fan.  Steinbrenner as the model owner?   

    What is different here from what always goes on. 

    Theo said it himself,  "We'd become too big, It was the farthest thing removed from what we set out to be."   the TV ratings didn't dictate roster moves in the early years.  Do you think  Mueller, OCab, Mient........ were brought in to sex up the ratings.  Letting Nomar go was about winning it was bad for marketing.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

     

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    In essence, I just dislike phonies.

     




    I have a friend.  She's blonde.  She's pretty.  She LOVES the Red Sox and HATES the Yanquis.  She also always has a PINK Red Sox hat on the back shelf of her sedan.  

     

    She was a fan before 2003.  She's been a softball player since her high school days, some 20+ years ago.  And though she has always lived in Yanqui/Phillie territory, this happily pink hatted Sox fan finds no issue with her expression of fandom.

     




     

    Yaz,

    My wife, who knows more about the Red Sox roster than most, wears a pink hat!

    She like the color.  What can I say?

    I think you know the type of fan I'm talking about.

    It's not about hat color.

    By the way, I've got a framed, MLB authenticated, signatured #8 hanging on our wall.

     



    Then let's come up with another adjective or descriptor of a new, uninformed, bandwagon, fair-weather, phoney fan. Every person who can afford to get the best seats for many games per year isn't necessarily a phoney or bandwagoner. He just might be rich and knowledgeable.  I wish that I was that rich and could drink five eight dollar beers and not worry about my finances. If ticket prices were cheap and were easy to come by would we be envious of bandwagon fans? I imagine that there were more bandwagon fans in 1968 than there were in 2005 but ticket prices were low.

     




    Money problems are the least of my concern.

    Phonies come rich or poor.  Don't you get it, man?

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

    Aren't most trades made to better your team and isn't the motivation to do that based on ratings, attendance, and revenues. What is different here from what always goes on. wasn't Steinbrenner the champion of this? Francona isn't telling us anything earth-shattering.



    Pike this post is below your standard.  You used to be Tito's biggest fan.  Steinbrenner as the model owner?   

    What is different here from what always goes on. 

    Theo said it himself, the TV ratings didn't dictate roster moves in the early years.  Do you think  Mueller, OCab, Mient........ were brought in to sex up the ratings.  Letting Nomar go was about winning it was bad for marketing.

    [/QUOTE]

    Tom-UK,

    I definitely agree with you that this ownership group was more focused on bringing in "baseball" players and not necessarily "marketable" players up until recently, but they are desperately in need of a new face of the franchise. This is one of the rare times where they don't have either a young superstar or Hall of Fame type talent on the roster.  Pedroia is a great player, but not a "wow" talent, Ortiz is likely nearing the end and Ellsbury can't stay on the field.

    It went from Ted to Yaz to Rice/Lynn to Clemens/Boggs to Mo Vaughn to Nomar/Pedro/Ortiz/Manny/Schilling to....?  For the better part of 70 years, they always had somebody who seemed to have that larger than life talent/personality and now they are in transition.  They need a Bogaerts to be the next Nomar or they need to hope they can bring in a Stanton type next year to generate excitement.  I don't think they believe Justin Upton is that guy.  If Middlebrooks ends up being a 40 homer type, then maybe it will be him, but they definitely need "somebody" to generate excitement again... 

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Suhprize! Henry et al don't love baseball

    In response to Flattiehater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Mr. Francona, you're spreading a heavy load. Feeling spurned? Because the players that you were given didn't live up to expectations? Because you're managing fell flat on its face in a monumental collapse? Weren't you running things in the dugout? Wasn't the season of your dismissal well in hand even with .500 ball after the break? Sour grapes are cheap this time of year.

    [/QUOTE

    good post - last time i saw Tito as manager he was blowing an epic lead in the last month by allowing his players to act like frat boys...you would think his new gig at cleveland would allow him to move on...guess not

     
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