Swing, for crying out loud!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Swing, for crying out loud!

    I absolutely am not against swinging at the first pitch and agree completely sometimes it's a good tactic.  Derek Jeter does it a lot.  Good for him. 

    That said, the OP is completely off base in saying the Sox need to do a lot of it right now to fix the hitting problem.  Guess what?  The Sox have scored more runs than any other team in MLB as of today, June 7, 2013, and the second place team has scored 13 fewer runs.  The Sox hitting is not broken nor in need of unsage advice from the likes of joel49. 

    Moreover, I think this team has a very good handle on when to swing at first pitches and when not to.  Last night they swung and got hits more than once on first pitches, including Ortiz's walk off dinger. 

    The principal behind taking pitches, not just first pitches, is to get the pitch count up, especially on the starter, because the bullpen is usually not as good. 

    Let's not forget the title of this thread--"swing, for crying out loud!"  That's pretty emphatic and says joel49 thinks the manager and the players are clueless when they come to the plate.  joel49 is the clueless one. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Swing, for crying out loud!

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    I absolutely am not against swinging at the first pitch and agree completely sometimes it's a good tactic.  Derek Jeter does it a lot.  Good for him. 

    That said, the OP is completely off base in saying the Sox need to do a lot of it right now to fix the hitting problem.  Guess what?  The Sox have scored more runs than any other team in MLB as of today, June 7, 2013, and the second place team has scored 13 fewer runs.  The Sox hitting is not broken nor in need of unsage advice from the likes of joel49. 

    Moreover, I think this team has a very good handle on when to swing at first pitches and when not to.  Last night they swung and got hits more than once on first pitches, including Ortiz's walk off dinger. 

    The principal behind taking pitches, not just first pitches, is to get the pitch count up, especially on the starter, because the bullpen is usually not as good. 




    This is why I reposted this max. This time, it was the smart move. Guy has a high ERA and isnt going to be painting. He IBB Pedey, so you know hes comin at you. Smart time to do be aggressive IMO.

    But yes, overall you take a patient approach and alter it accordingly.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Swing, for crying out loud!

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Like I was saying, If the situation calls for it you swing at pitch one.

    Last night when the Sox were up in the ninth against Kirkland, who has an ERA north of 6, the decided to take this approach with great results. Only 2 pitches were really thrown. the other 4 were an IBB. 1st to Gomes, who laced a double then papi with a WO HR, both on the 1st pitch.

    Theres a time to be aggressive, and a time to lay back and let the guy throw.



    I was at the game so...lets not forget that there were also a first pitch ground out and a first pitch DP. Yes it works but do not use last night as a reason why when it did not work in other at bats. Btw Gomes hit every ball hard last night no matter the count. And if I remember correctly the DP came after a walk when supposedly the pitcher is trying to throw a strike. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Swing, for crying out loud!

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

    Like I was saying, If the situation calls for it you swing at pitch one.

    Last night when the Sox were up in the ninth against Kirkland, who has an ERA north of 6, the decided to take this approach with great results. Only 2 pitches were really thrown. the other 4 were an IBB. 1st to Gomes, who laced a double then papi with a WO HR, both on the 1st pitch.

    Theres a time to be aggressive, and a time to lay back and let the guy throw.

     

     



    I was at the game so...lets not forget that there were also a first pitch ground out and a first pitch DP. Yes it works but do not use last night as a reason why when it did not work in other at bats. Btw Gomes hit every ball hard last night no matter the count. And if I remember correctly the DP came after a walk when supposedly the pitcher is trying to throw a strike. 

     

     

     




    I was using the pitcher in the 9th inning, Kirkland, as the example. Also, It was a totally different situation than the time you sited with the DP earlier in the game. Have to take all that into consideration too. Of course It doesnt work every time, but there are better situations to be more aggressive in than others. Thats is all Im saying. Change your approach accordingly. The 9th inning was the perfect time IMHO.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Swing, for crying out loud!

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    batting-averages-hitting-counts

    These stats suggest that first pitch hitting may not be the best choice as even an 0-1 count is better than an 0-0.  As you can see, 1-0 is the best.



    This says it all and the reason the reds and blues  are that you are usually getting the pitchers best pitch that game so he can get to the counts that put the odds in his favor. Just like batters love the green counts Which favor them.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Swing, for crying out loud!

    I saw your chart earlier in the thread and it is valid to a point. Up until the human element. Baseball is a lot about, but not all about numbers Jim, you know that. So no, that doesnt say all I need to know about it.

    We agree that their main approach is 100% right on. But Thats mostly with starting pitching. relievers are going to throw about 1IP, not 7-9IP. You want to build up a starters PC, but a RP not so much. So you have to take each RP individually by what they have done the last few games and whats in their "bag of tricks", so to speak. Kirkland had been having a rough time of late and probably wasnt going to try and paint the corners. He was probably going to be aggressive and go right at hitters. The Sox were ready for it and it seemed it worked out good being aggressive. Thats the human element.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Swing, for crying out loud!

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    batting-averages-hitting-counts

    These stats suggest that first pitch hitting may not be the best choice as even an 0-1 count is better than an 0-0.  As you can see, 1-0 is the best.




    Great chart.  Forget the argument on this thread--that chart clarifies for me why announcers call some counts hitters counts and other ones pitchers counts. 

    Given that the hitters average on an 0-0 count is below the mendoza line, one wonders why more pitchers don't make an effort to get that first pitch strike.  Relatedly, when they get a first pitch ball, the batter now has his best advantage among all the pitch counts--on average hitting .386. 

    And look at that average on an 0-2 count--.118.  Looks to me like that's a great pitch for getting an out, but 9 pitchers out of 10 are going to waste at least one pitch and probably two pitches after they get that 0-2 count.  This is especially prevalent among Sox pitchers.  In their defense, the odds of getting an out on a 1-2 or even a 2-2 pitch are still pretty good. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Swing, for crying out loud!

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    batting-averages-hitting-counts

    These stats suggest that first pitch hitting may not be the best choice as even an 0-1 count is better than an 0-0.  As you can see, 1-0 is the best.

     




    Great chart.  Forget the argument on this thread--that chart clarifies for me why announcers call some counts hitters counts and other ones pitchers counts. 

     

    Given that the hitters average on an 0-0 count is below the mendoza line, one wonders why more pitchers don't make an effort to get that first pitch strike.  Relatedly, when they get a first pitch ball, the batter now has his best advantage among all the pitch counts--on average hitting .386. 

    And look at that average on an 0-2 count--.118.  Looks to me like that's a great pitch for getting an out, but 9 pitchers out of 10 are going to waste at least one pitch and probably two pitches after they get that 0-2 count.  This is especially prevalent among Sox pitchers.  In their defense, the odds of getting an out on a 1-2 or even a 2-2 pitch are still pretty good. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Shouldn't pay too much attention to the 2 strike counts.  Keep in mind that all strikeouts come on these counts.

     
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