Talking heresy-Pedroia yes or no...

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    Re: Talking heresy-Pedroia yes or no...

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to traven's comment:

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    There are many wins to winning a pennant.  Elite pitching is one, but not the only, way.

    Teams slug their way to championships all the time.

    Yanks slug their way to the AL East pennant almost every year but usually don't get very far in the playoffs because of their lack of hitting (being shut down by great pitching of the other team) or their lack of pitching (the other team getting more runs because of the Yanks mediocre pitching).

    If you slug your way to enough division championships, you will win WS rings eventually.  Getting in should be the focus.  Once you are in , anything can happen.

    I don't know that I agree. The Red Sox under Yawkey tried to slug thier way to championships for almost 9 decades with little to show for thier troubles. Try as I might, I can't recall a team in recent memory that won a ring without stellar pitching performances from the top two or three in thier rotation.

    The 2001 Seattle Mariners won 116 games with a good pitching staff and a deep lineup and lost in the playoff to the Yank's becasue they couldn't matchup with Clemens, Petitte & Rivera. The 2004 Yankees fell to the Red Sox becasue they couldn't match up with Schill & Pedro. 2007 Beckett led the Sox to the crown, 2008 Hammels led the Phils then in 2009 CC 2010 in was Lincecum & Cain followed by Carpenter in 2011 giving Rangers fans much pain...last year Cain outpitched Verlander...

    If we are to believe the age old adage if "Good pitching, beats good hitting" and the stats bear that out...then clearly "Great pitching, beats great hitting and the axis doesn't tip the otherway until you get to "mediocre pitching, gets beat by good hitting and gets killed by great hitting teams. Typically come post season, teams with mediocre pitching staffs are home watching.

    Every year the team who ace steps up and pitches big in big games tends to be ones that find themselves in the world series...Once there the odds are good that if your #1 beats theirs twice your in the cat birds seat and your #2 outpitches thiers it gets all the more difficult ...Just asked the Texas Rangers, about facing Chris Carpenter in 2011...

    Where I'm going with this is....How many teams have more than one or two great hitters? Defined by hitters that hit good pitching. Come the postseason when a premium is placed on scoring, when facing a guy like Carpenter when he's on his game the reality is that the best hitters in the lineup rarely ever get the chance to beat him. Thus navigating a linup full of good hitters is much less daunting a task for great pitchers...

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    Re: Talking heresy-Pedroia yes or no...

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:


    Good writer, but that was a poor exercise.  Gio had a 2.89 ERA v Zimmerman's 2.95, and Zimmerman had a much better K/W.  FWIW, Bill James predict almost identical stats for these two guys next year.

    The main reason Gonzalez has more value is their contractual situation. Zimmerman has only 3 years of control and is already in his 2nd year of arbitration, being a super 2. Where as Gonzalez has 6 years of control at about 10 million a year.

    Also, Gonzalez is more proven, especially as an innings eater having 3 years of at least 190 innings to Zimmermans 1. And finally that Gonzalez is a notch better pitcher and I don't think their value is all that close.

    I think Cameron got that comparison correct. Its not about who is going to be the better player next year, but who has more value in trade. Teams value proven innings eaters who are cost controlled for a long time. And Gonzalez will probably be better then Zimmermann next year anyway.