Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from The--Babe--. Show The--Babe--'s posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]Maybe his cousin can travel with Colon for a while, for those regular tweaks that are needed from time to time.

    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]

    Why hasn't big papi shared any milkshakes with drew and crawful?

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]I called Tampa in January and I was 100% correct..... I want my reward.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    I predicted a Red Sox vs. Braves World Series and I will be right. 
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V : I predicted a Red Sox vs. Braves World Series and I will be right. 
    Posted by Ice-Cream[/QUOTE]

    I predicted the Rays have the next 27 games including last night to stay in the race or their season is over.  Now they even have ARod and half our staff missing during the only real tough teams during this stretch.  I'm not going to post another thread on this until there are 45 games left in Tampa's season.  All the cards have been stacked with, not against the Rays so far because of an easy schedule and a few injuries.

    They are still in third place so lets see where they finish.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]And so the coward is back at it, waiting until after Game 1 of a mid season series to post a meaningless phrase, to wit: Tampa Bay is not going away "anytime soon". 5 back of the Red Sox and 4 back of the Yankees, mid season. Dog days just starting. Just because you say "they aren't going away" doesn't mean they haven't "gone away", "anytime soon".
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Do you even bother to consult the facts before your spew your lies and misinformation?

    Boston 55-36  -
    NYY     53-37  1.5
    TB       50-41  5.0

    Simple math shows that TB is 3.5 games behind the Yanks, not 4.
    The Yanks have gone 4-6 the last 10.

    Just a reminder: I will be here to admit I was wrong if TB falls out of contention before the last 4-5 games of the season.

    Where will you be?

    What will you be calling yourself then?

    No matter what, you'll always be the clown to me.

    (Sidenote: The mid season "meaningless phrase" you speak of, is a direct quote from you (softy) from this time last year about TB, so how dumb are you?

    1) TB did not go away last year
    2) You made the same statement this time last year: was it meaningless?)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V : I predicted the Rays have the next 27 games including last night to stay in the race or their season is over.  Now they even have ARod and half our staff missing during the only tough games during this stretch.  I'm not going to post another thread on this until there are 45 games left in Tampa's season.  All the cards so far have been stacked with the Rays this season, not against because of an easy schedule and a few injuries. They are still in third place so lets see where they finish.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    TB had Longoria out for much of this season. He is back now.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V : A-rod cousin can't travel with Colon on account that he is too busy with Papi, and A-Gon...
    Posted by greatestNYY[/QUOTE]
    Let me see. Arod is reported to have used PEDS in HS. Arod is then found to be on the 2004 list. Then Arod has his cousin travel with him for years and is implicated for PED use....etc., etc., etc. Now Arod is on the Galea list....etc....

    A-Gon has zero reports of ped use ever. None.

    Ortiz has apparently been implicated but how about Colon? I'm sure he is clean huh. Maybe he took some herbal "deer musk" medicine like 5 players on the North Korean soccer team which allegedly were all struck by lightning shortly before the WWC. How is that one for a doozy.

    I for one am extremely happy A-rod is not on our team.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    When Moon and I said Tamba Bay was going to be in it until the end, last winter, I didn't think of them being in it until the last 4 games or it would be a failed projection. Our point was that they would be a lot better than people thought. They still had the nucleus of a great pitchiong staff. They still had some good young talent coming up and Pena was not irreplaceable...etc. We projected them in the 90-91 win range but who really knows what will happen due to injuries and other factors. The whole point was that the Rays were better than what others were saying. We thought of them as a 90-91 win team if we had to project a number.
     
    If some here want to position that as a failed projection with some sort of moving goal post, as they have done before with Ellsbury and many others, there is not much we can do about that other than listen to them moan and whine all the way to the end of the season. The point is that so far, we have been right. Contrary to what most people here thought.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]I most certainly did not say Tampa was "going away" last year. This isn't last year. Longoria has looked good, so getting him back should push the Ray to "not going away" status.   "Lies" show that 4 games back in the loss column. Get a grip, old man. No matter what, you are a compulsive feeble mind who decides based upon "no matter what".
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Direct quote from softy in July, 2010:

    "...Tampa Bay will go away since they can not pick up anybody at the trade deadline..."

    Fact: TB is 3.5 GB the Yanks not 4. "No matter what!"

    Adding later that it is 4 in the loss column is moving the goalpost once again. The only thing you are good at anymore.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from fenwayjack2. Show fenwayjack2's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]Good pitching wins games. Tampa has very good pitching. Tampa Bay is not going away anytime soon. Only 2 AL teams have less losses (Bos & NYY). Only 3 NL teams have less losses (Phil, SF & Atl). Starters with 5+ starts: Shields  8-7  2.33   0.981 WHIP Hellick.  8-7  3.21   1.148 Price      9-7  3.73   1.075 Davis     7-6  4.25   1.457 Nieman 4-4   4.53   1.416 A. Cobb 2-2   3.41   1.310 Relievers with 25+ innings in relief: Farnsworth  1.95  0.880 Peralta          4.10  1.173 J. Cruz           3.31  1.296 Russell           2.90  1.516 C. Ramos      4.05  1.350   
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Not enough lumber.   They'll hang around but finish at least 8 back. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    I just now noticed Shields has SEVEN complete games, I am sure you covered this before but wow.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    The Rays pitching could well keep them in it.  I am not so sure Maddon is the genius others claim him to be.  Today he made matters worse with all those managerial moves, especially with the pitchers--like he was searching for the pitcher who didn't have his stuff (and found him). 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    Maddon seems perfect for this team. I'm not sure he would thrive on a team full of stars.

    When you look at the TB line-up: their OPS and other traditional stats and metrics, it's easy to be surprised at how many runs they score.

    When you look at their defense year in and year out, many pitchers who seem marginal when they get to TB all of a sudden have career years. When they leave, they return to their "norm".

    It's the little things. The fundementals.

    It's the near constant influx of top youth filling in the holes, then becoming important pieces before too long. Yes, they lose many of their stars, but management plays the draft game well. They also seem to know just when to deal a star and get great returns most of the time.

    "Not going away" is as much a longterm position as short term one.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    Direct quote from softy in July, 2010:

    "...Tampa Bay will go away since they can not pick up anybody at the trade deadline..."

    Fact: TB is 3.5 GB the Yanks not 4. "No matter what!"

    Direct lie.

    Direct truth. Part I was started right after you said it.

    Fact: TB 6 GB in the loss column and 5 GB ITLC behind the Yanks. No matter what!

    You loser, Not going away" is as much a longterm position as short term one

    No, it's this year, you big two timer loser!

    No, it actually started last year, when you began your "loser" losing streak by being wrong on everything you stated or projected.

    Keep clinging to the "Marlins have the correct low budget philosophy" POV, clown.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    moonslav,

    All due respect, but I have my doubts about the importance of pitching.  The two best ERA's in the AL have losing records, and three of the top seven ERA's in the AL have losing records. 

    The Sox, meanwhile, have the 9th best ERA and the best W-L record in the AL. 

    In the AL, if you can hit and score runs, you can win games. 

    The Sox, playing at Tropicana, just sent out Miller and Lackey against Shields and Price--both huge mismatches and big advantages for the Rays.  Result?  A split.  Heck, the Rays didn't even really hit Miller so much as let him walk them--five walks in 2 innings.  But the Sox yesterday had no problem hitting Price. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    moonslav,

    All due respect, but I have my doubts about the importance of pitching.  The two best ERA's in the AL have losing records, and three of the top seven ERA's in the AL have losing records. 

    1) Wait until October and look again.

    2) ERA is a flawed stat that has a lot to do with park dimensions, fielding, scorer (arror or hit) judgement calls and more.

    RED= playoffs if season ended now
    Orange= still in the hunt
    Black= almost out of it.
    Blue= Pretty much out of the race as of now.

    The top WAR staffs:
    1) Phillies
    2) SF
    3) Atl
    4) CWS
    5) LAA
    6) Sea
    7) NYY
    8) Oak
    9) Bos
    10) Col
    11) Milw
    12) Det
    13) LAD
    14) AZ

    (Sidenote: notice how the two blue teams play in extreme pitcher's parks
    and have "awful hitting records" due in part to their park that offset the good pitching numbers.)

    By WHIP:
    1) Sea
    2) Phil
    3) Atl
    4) TB
    5) SF
    6) LAA
    7) SD
    8) Bos
    9) Tex
    10) CWS
    11) Fla
    12) LAD
    13) Cle
    14) NYY

    The Sox, meanwhile, have the 9th best ERA and the best W-L record in the AL. 

    The Sox were the worst in ERA in April. Yes, their hiutting has turned it up bigtime, but their pitching has been huge. 

    In the AL, if you can hit and score runs, you can win games. 

    True, but pitching wins the rings.

    The Sox, playing at Tropicana, just sent out Miller and Lackey against Shields and Price--both huge mismatches and big advantages for the Rays.  Result?  A split.  Heck, the Rays didn't even really hit Miller so much as let him walk them--five walks in 2 innings.  But the Sox yesterday had no problem hitting Price. 

    Good pitching usually neutralizes good hitting. Plus, for some reason, the Sox seem to thrive on great pitchers and do worse vs newbies or bums.

    Answer these questions:
    1) Why are the Pirates still in the race?
    Pitching or hitting.
    2) Why is Cleveland in first place now?
    Their hitting or pitching?
    3) Why is TB the 4the best team in the AL and 8th best in MLB?
    Their offense (on paper) is terrible, although they do score runs.
    4) What turned things around for Texas?
    5) Why does Atlanta have the 3rd best MLB record?
    6) Why is Arizona one of the 2011 surprise teams?
    7) Why is SF in first place? Hitting? (They are 27th in runs scored)

    Conversely, let's look at the top offensive teams in MLB (remember the AL has the DH):
    By Runs scored:
    1) Bos
    2) Tex
    3) NYY
    4) Tor
    5) Cincy
    6) StL
    7) AZ
    8) Col
    9) Milw
    10) Det
    11) NYM
    12) KC
    13) Cle
    14) TB
    15) Phil
    16) Cubs
    17) CWS

    18) Atl
    23) Pitt

    The worst 3 hitting teams by OPS (by far) in baseball are Seattle, SD, and Oakland. All are big parks and their pitching reflects this as well.

    Now, think of this:
    SF has the 5th worst OPS in MLB (1st place)
    Pitt has the 7th worst OPS and was in 1st place yesterday.
    Atlanta has the 10th worst OPS in MLB and the 3rd best record.
    Philly has the 12th worst OPS in MLB and look at their record.
    The Angels, Rays, WhiteSox aqnd Indians are in the middle of the pack in OPS, but right in the thick of the WC races. 


    I'm sticking with "good piching wins games" more than good hitting does.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    Boy, you really like to throw those arcane stats around.

    Me, I'll stick with thr runs scored.  The three best run-scoring teams in the AL are headed toward the playoffs.  Texas, in a division with three very good pitching staffs--according to ERA--is doing just fine, as they did last year, because they are hitting.  Didn't they just win 10 in a row?   You think the Angels, Mariners, or Athletics are going to do that (or catch them)? 

    Pitching, especially great starting pitching (and you really only need three), can indeed be crucial in the postseason, but the title of this thread suggests this about getting into the playoffs, so please don't tell me about the postseason when it's irrelevant. 

    Did I forget to say that the Sox were doing great last year until the hitting fell off with Pedroia and then Youk--to say nothing of Ellsbury who missed the season--went on the DL? 

    FWIW, I don't completely disagree that the Rays are likely to continue to be competitive.  I just don't think they can do it on pitching alone, especially not the kind of pitching that starts Price and Shields and gives up 15 runs in two games. 

    This three game series was the perfect opportunity for the Rays to demonstrate how good their pitching has made them.  Plus they badly needed a sweep.  And they didn't get it.  They couldn't even beat John Lackey, a sure sign of a weak team.   

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]Boy, you really like to throw those arcane stats around. Me, I'll stick with thr runs scored.  The three best run-scoring teams in the AL are headed toward the playoffs.  Texas, in a division with three very good pitching staffs--according to ERA--is doing just fine, as they did last year, because they are hitting.  Didn't they just win 10 in a row?   You think the Angels, Mariners, or Athletics are going to do that (or catch them)?  Pitching, especially great starting pitching (and you really only need three), can indeed be crucial in the postseason, but the title of this thread suggests this about getting into the playoffs, so please don't tell me about the postseason when it's irrelevant.  Did I forget to say that the Sox were doing great last year until the hitting fell off with Pedroia and then Youk--to say nothing of Ellsbury who missed the season--went on the DL?  FWIW, I don't completely disagree that the Rays are likely to continue to be competitive.  I just don't think they can do it on pitching alone, especially not the kind of pitching that starts Price and Shields and gives up 15 runs in two games.  This three game series was the perfect opportunity for the Rays to demonstrate how good their pitching has made them.  Plus they badly needed a sweep.  And they didn't get it.  They couldn't even beat John Lackey, a sure sign of a weak team.   
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    If you are adamant about using one series to make your poiot, why not discuss the 2009 PO's between Boston, a top hitting team who was quite healthy at that juncture, and the Angels. Boston offense was shutdown in CA.

    Team ERA is a reflection of venue. What do you think Boston's best would do in an expansive Oakland/Seattle - as their home venue?
    How would the A's/M's staffs do in Fenway full time?
    If you can't acknowledge that good pitching stops good hitting, you are delusional.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V : If you are adamant about using one series to make your poiot, why not discuss the 2009 PO's between Boston, a top hitting team who was quite healthy at that juncture, and the Angels. Boston offense was shutdown in CA. Team ERA is a reflection of venue. What do you think Boston's best would do in an expansive Oakland/Seattle - as their home venue? How would the A's/M's staffs do in Fenway full time? If you can't acknowledge that good pitching stops good hitting, you are delusional.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    I actually have a corollary to this:

    good pitching stops good hitting, but awesome hitting can take on anything

    case in point: 

    1. Jered Weaver & Sabathia have been almost unhittable this yr; except when they played the RS
    2. No pitching could really stop the '27 Yankees, '36 Yankees, '50 Red Sox, '53 Dodgers, '61 Yankees, or Big Red Machine
     
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    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    Awesome hitting could not stop Koufax or Paige - awesome pitching.
    Pitching will always have a distinctive edge. That's why hitters fail most of the time.
    Pitchers don't always stay in top form (like Shields yesterday), but the generality holds. Always has.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V:
    [QUOTE]Awesome hitting could not stop Koufax or Paige - awesome pitching. Pitching will always have a distinctive edge. That's why hitters fail most of the time. Pitchers don't always stay in top form (like Shields yesterday), but the generality holds. Always has.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    OK; I never said all my opinions were perfect; but I remember when Koufax mowed down the Yankees in '63; the only runs he gave up in game 4; was a Mantle HR. And look who you resorted to; arguably 2 of the greatest Ps ever.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Is Not Going Away: Part V

    You guys have completely misinterpreted what I said.  I'm saying that over an entire season, especially in the AL, good hitting is more valuable than good pitching.  Great pitching will always shut down good or even great hitting, but nobody gets great pitching night after night after night over 162 games. 

    So, please spare the stories about Sandy Koufax, who I actually saw pitch in Philly in the 50's, or Pedro Martinez, or Roger Clemens, or any numbers of great pitchers now and in the past.  Heck, I freely admit that Niemann has had a great night tonight.  But that is not the point. 
     

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