Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    These Rays are for real. As much as it pains me to say it, these guys are going to be even better this year and beyond. Some silly clowns keep trying to downplay the importance of pitching and fielding as well as the importance of age-related performance curve projections. Most of us know better and fear this team. Keith Law rated 7 Rays in his top 102 players.

    Most of the pitching staff is just entering their prime years of are right in the middle of it. On top of that, they have some great pitching prospects that every team covets:

    Starting Pitchers (age on opening day):
    Shields (30) 2 years of team control
    Price     (26) 4 years
    Hellickson (24) 5 years
    Niemann (29) 3 years
    W Davis (26) 4 years
    M Moore (22) 8 years
    A Cobb (24)  5 years
    Prospects (Law's rating):
    Chris Archer (63), Enny Romero (84), Alex Torres (102)

    Relief Pitchers:
    Farnsworth (35)
    Peralta (36)
    Rodney (35)
    Howell (28)
    McGee (25)
    Gomes (27)
    Badenhop (29)
    Lueke (27)
    Ramos (27)
    Colome (22)

    Positional Players:
    C Jose Molina (36)/Robinson Chirinos (27)/ Jose Lobaton (27)
    1B Carlos Pena (32)
    2B Ben Zobrist (30)/ Elliot Johnson (28)
    3B Evan Longoria (26)
    SS Sean Rodrigiez (26)/ Reid Brignac (26)
    LF Desmond Jennings (25)/ Sam Fuld (30)
    CF BJ Upton (27)
    RF Matt Joyce (27)/ Brandon Guyer (26)
    DH Luke Scott (33)

    Other prospects (Keith Law's rating):
    SS Hak-Ju Lee (#12)
    OF Mikie Maht. (#87)
    Taylor Guerrieri (#88)
    OF Josh Sale
    C Justin O'Conner
    SS Tim Beckham
    OF Drew Vettleson

    FAs after this season:
    Pena $7.25M
    Upton $7M
    Farnsworth $3.3M
    Peralta $2.2M
    Keppinger $1.5M
    Howell $1.4M
    Total: ~$23M (That's a lot for thios team)


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kannaman. Show kannaman's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Yep...the Rays know how to build a team with out much money. Their success with drafting and developing pitching is certainly an amazing thing. Getting their young players to sign undervalued contracts is also pretty amazing...I'm thinking mostly of Longoria but there have been a few others. Also they have an uncanny knack for knowing when to discard a player....Kazmir comes to mind, all in all they just really run their team well.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Yep...the Rays know how to build a team with out much money. Their success with drafting and developing pitching is certainly an amazing thing. Getting their young players to sign undervalued contracts is also pretty amazing...I'm thinking mostly of Longoria but there have been a few others. 

    Locking up Matt Moore for 5 years with 3 club option years is another feather in their cap.

    Also they have an uncanny knack for knowing when to discard a player....Kazmir comes to mind, all in all they just really run their team well.

    This is perhaps their best kept secret. Plus, the players they get in trade or through draft picks by losing to free agency almost always contribute as well.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kannaman. Show kannaman's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    The only mistakes they have made was signing Burrell and not figuring out how to get BJ Upton to play to his potential other than those things I admire the way they play and operate, I wish we had some of those young pitcher's.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Here we have a buffoon who is dense enough to gloat over what amounted to the greatest backing into the playoffs job in MLB season history! 2011 history will not remember the 2011 Rays, it will correctly remember the biggest collapse in MLB season history! Valentine just admitted that the reason he is "here" is because of clubhouse debacle from the 50 million dollar a year starting pitcher frathouse. That is why the bad 2011 Rays backed into the playoffs, despite losing 3 out of 4 to the Yankees when the Rays were claiming to be taking care of their own business, which was a joke! 

    Now, with that house kleening out of the way, let us move on to the great 2012 Rays. A team who discarded a good veteran role player in Damon and correctly threw a career year Kotchman in the dumspter, and replaced him with an inferior dumpster deal redux with Carolos Pena. 

    The Red Sox have profiles like Ellsbury and Lackey, who are the remaining faces of a half a billion dollar culture of InEpstein losing baseball culture. Thus, 2012 will certainly give the Rays a better chance to finish 2nd the AL East. The problem is that the Rays will need other wildcard competition to provide another collapsing perfect storm, or the Rays will not be able to make another pretender's quick exit from the playoffs.

    The plight of the Rays and the Red Sox are as different as night and day.   

    As with 2011, these Rays are not "for real". They are not contenders. Perhaps the author of this thread can spend more time trying to help attendance in the great baseball market of the State swamp.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]Here we have a buffoon who is dense enough to gloat over what amounted to the greatest backing into the playoffs job in MLB season history! 2011 history will not remember the 2011 Rays, it will correctly remember the biggest collapse in MLB season history! Valentine just admitted that the reason he "is here" is because of clubhouse debacle from the 50 million dollar a year starting pitcher frat house. That is why the bad 2011 Rays backed into the playoffs, despite losing 3 out of to the Yankees when the Rays were claiming to be taking care of their own business, which was a joke!  Now, with that house kleening out of the way, let us move on to the great 2012 Rays. A team who discarded a good veteran role player in Damon and correctly through a career year Kotchman in the dumspter, and replaced him with an inferior dumpster deal redux with Carolos Pena.  The Red Sox have profiles like Ellsbury and Lackey, who are the remaining faces of a half a billion dollar culture of InEpstein losing baseball culture. Thus, 2012 will certainly give the Rays a better chance to finish 2nd the AL East. The problem is that the Rays will need other wildcard competition to provide another collapsing perfect storm, or the Rays will not be able to make another pretender's quick exit from the playoffs. The plight of the Rays and the Red Sox are as different as night and day.    As with 2011, these Rays are not "for real". They are not contenders. Perhaps the author of this thread can spend more time trying to help attendance in the great baseball market of the State swamp.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

    sounds kind of personal softy....
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    My sister lives there. They have no state income tax. There are good and bad qualities to the old Spanish colony. Land mass volume quality for human habitation is not one of them. It is great for wildlife and beach bums.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Don't forget the infestation of pythons!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]The only mistakes they have made was signing Burrell and not figuring out how to get BJ Upton to play to his potential other than those things I admire the way they play and operate, I wish we had some of those young pitcher's.
    Posted by kannaman[/QUOTE]

    I have a feeling BJ may be traded this July, even if they are in the race. I suppose they may just pocket the pick they get when he walks as a FA.

    I also could see Shields being traded next winter.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    Here we have a buffoon who is dense enough to gloat over what amounted to the greatest backing into the playoffs job in MLB season history! 2011 history will not remember the 2011 Rays, it will correctly remember the biggest collapse in MLB season history! Valentine just admitted that the reason he "is here" is because of clubhouse debacle from the 50 million dollar a year starting pitcher frat house. That is why the bad 2011 Rays backed into the playoffs, despite losing 3 out of to the Yankees when the Rays were claiming to be taking care of their own business, which was a joke!  Now, with that house kleening out of the way, let us move on to the great 2012 Rays. A team who discarded a good veteran role player in Damon and correctly through a career year Kotchman in the dumspter, and replaced him with an inferior dumpster deal redux with Carolos Pena.  The Red Sox have profiles like Ellsbury and Lackey, who are the remaining faces of a half a billion dollar culture of InEpstein losing baseball culture. Thus, 2012 will certainly give the Rays a better chance to finish 2nd the AL East. The problem is that the Rays will need other wildcard competition to provide another collapsing perfect storm, or the Rays will not be able to make another pretender's quick exit from the playoffs. The plight of the Rays and the Red Sox are as different as night and day.    As with 2011, these Rays are not "for real". They are not contenders. Perhaps the author of this thread can spend more time trying to help attendance in the great baseball market of the State swamp.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr


    sounds kind of personal softy...

    When you're oh for 188, going personal is the only way for clowns to try and save face.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    This lame thread was personal, and personally pitiful. The author of this thrread is a PC fogger who carries a chip from never getting anything right but saving face in the cover of a thundering herd of idiots.

    Take note of the author's claim on Ortiz v. LP, in 2011.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III : I have a feeling BJ may be traded this July, even if they are in the race. I suppose they may just pocket the pick they get when he walks as a FA. I also could see Shields being traded next winter.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]


    Then they will never win, this is the mentality of a defeatist. They must ad power to win. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kannaman. Show kannaman's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III : I have a feeling BJ may be traded this July, even if they are in the race. I suppose they may just pocket the pick they get when he walks as a FA. I also could see Shields being traded next winter.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    That fit's their MO....trade them before they have to pay them. They have so much pitching coming that trading Shields for young pitching prospects  or what ever they need is highly likely. I believe that Jennings can play CF so I could see them trading BJ away.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kannaman. Show kannaman's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]This lame thread was personal, and personally pitiful. The author of this thrread is a PC fogger who carries a chip from never getting anything right but saving face in the cover of a thundering herd of idiots. Take note of the author's claim on Ortiz v. LP, in 2011.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]
    He was wrong about Ortiz hitting lefties...but the numbers usually don't lie, the outlier was because Agon was a good influence on Big Papi...now when are you going to admit you are wrong about Ellsbury.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III : Then they will never win, this is the mentality of a defeatist. They must ad power to win. 
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Look again, burr. They have been winning this way for years. They traded Kaz right in the middle of a race. Many were shocked, but Kaz has done horribly ever since (11-17  5.31 with a team playing in a pitcher's park), and TB still has Sean Rodriguez and Alex Torres. They traded Matt Garza and are now have some top prospects nearing a point where they are going to contribute very soon:
    Hak-Ju Lee #12 Keith Law's top 100
    Chris Archer #63 
    Plus, Sam Fuld, Robinson Chirinos, and Brandon Guyer
    They let Crawford, Pena, Soriano, Wheeler, Benoit, Balfour, and Qualls walk, and they also traded Jason Bartlett (for Gomes, Ramos, and Russell), yet still made the playoffs.

    Think about it Burr, is losing BJ Upton (replacing him with Jennings) and Shields (replacing him with Matt Moore) really all that much worse than losing from 2010 to 2011?
    Garza
    Crawford
    Soriano
    C. Pena
    J. Bartlett
    Wheeler
    Benoit
    Balfour
    Qualls
    Cormier
    Choate

    Plus, they are not going to trade these two for peanuts.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    No longer expect them to go away, they the Sox the Yankees, pick em it's a toss up, & Toronto looks to be improving.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    This lame thread was personal, and personally pitiful. The author of this thrread is a PC fogger who carries a chip from never getting anything right but saving face in the cover of a thundering herd of idiots. Take note of the author's claim on Ortiz v. LP, in 2011.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr

    He was wrong about Ortiz hitting lefties...but the numbers usually don't lie, the outlier was because Agon was a good influence on Big Papi...now when are you going to admit you are wrong about Ellsbury.

    I was terribly wrong about Papi vs LHPs in 2011, but the clown ignores that I was right about 2010 while he clung to the idea that a .500 OPS vs the pitchers I suggested he sit against was good enough to not only play, but he wanted him staying in the 3, 4 or 5 slot in those games.

    The clown neglects to mention I predicted TB's exact 2011 win total (90-92), while all year long softy called that "idiotic". I predicted the AGon trade months before softy's "50-50" claim. I predicted he'd be traded for Kelly, Rizzo and Bowden, while softy predicted "Jake & Jed". Softy started a thread claiming there was no way AGon would sign in April, but instead would become a FA. I said AGon would sign in early April for somewhere between $21-23M. Softy claimed $17-18M was all he'd get, then tried some lame mathematics to include his 2011 pay into the extension fugures to try and claim he was right. I called the Cody Ross signing, while softy claimed he was a bum, even though softy's MO has always been following career norms and his absurd unintelligible term "median average".

    softy has now become mr. hanky, and the stench matches his ideas.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]Yep...the Rays know how to build a team with out much money. Their success with drafting and developing pitching is certainly an amazing thing. Getting their young players to sign undervalued contracts is also pretty amazing...I'm thinking mostly of Longoria but there have been a few others.  Locking up Matt Moore for 5 years with 3 club option years is another feather in their cap. Also they have an uncanny knack for knowing when to discard a player....Kazmir comes to mind, all in all they just really run their team well. This is perhaps their best kept secret. Plus, the players they get in trade or through draft picks by losing to free agency almost always contribute as well.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Unless he turns out to not be very good or get injured. 

    The A's tried a similar tactic locking up Brett Anderson, and all he has done since is visit the DL...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III : Unless he turns out to not be very good or get injured.  The A's tried a similar tactic locking up Brett Anderson, and all he has done since is visit the DL...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Yes, any longterm contract signing runs the risk of injury, but the 3 club option years helps lessen a huge loss. Plus, look what he is going to make:
    (Only $11M is guaranteed in 5 years-about $2.2M/yr)

    12:$1M
    13:$1M
    14:$1M
    15:$3M
    16:$5M
    17:$7M club option ($2.5M buyout)
    18:$9M club option ($1M buyout)
    19:$10M club option ($0.75M buyout)
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Take a look Ellsbury production in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011, which will help you in evaluating this said to be superstar.

     exact 2011 win total (90-92), while all year long softy called that "idiotic". I predicted the AGon trade months before softy's "50-50" claim.

    You did nothing of the sort. You never predicted the AGon trade at all, simply stating that it was possible and nothing else. Softlaw said that AGon was 100% guaranteed to be traded last winter, and "at least 50/50 to the Red Sox". The only reason it was 100% to the Red Sox was the need to agree on the extension. You didn't do anything but claim he might not be traded last winter, saying the "selling tickets and waiting until the summer" was likely. You endorsed the idiot, Harness, who guaranteed AGon would be with the Padres last spring. 

    I predicted he'd be traded for Kelly, Rizzo and Bowden, while softy predicted "Jake & Jed".

    Softlaw never predicted who the players would be, but said to offer Ellsbury and Lowrie to try and save Kelly, but deal Kelly if need be. Moonshwemp never predicted who the players would be in the trade, only that if the trade happened Bowden and other players would be part of the deal.

    Softy started a thread claiming there was no way AGon would sign in April, but instead would become a FA. I said AGon would sign in early April for somewhere between $21-23M.

    Softlaw started a thread that said that AGon would not sign on opening day, as it was claimed for CBT bean counting purposes as was the case with Beckett. Moonshwemp claimed AGon would sign on opening day. Softlaw said that the deal would likely be done later in April, but that Agon had the power to make a hedging InEsptein pay the price for waiting to see regular season game performances. Moonswemp claimed AGon would seek a Howard 25 million deal, claiming that he could easily make that case as a younger player. Softlaw said the first year would be wrapped into the extension and the deal would be around 17 to 19 for the 8 years because of the first year discount from the Padre contract last year.

    Moonshwemp, get a job other than professional prevaricator.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kannaman. Show kannaman's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    If Ellsbury has another season like last year we will all be saying "Pesky was Right" and another thing the Rays do really well is retool their bullpen with other teams cast offs...usually signing them to one year deals.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Nobody should sign a middle reliever to more than two years.  The Rays are only selling themselves short by not trading one of their starters and one of their top prospects for a power hitting player who will be a free agent in 2013.

    Andre Either would be worth trading Moore and two of their very best prospects.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Oh no. Everytime Moon puts these threads up, the Rays don't go away. Now they're not going to go away in 2012!

    Next season I'm going to start a thread called "The Rays finally go away" before he gets a chance to put his thread up for 2013. There's something to be said for throwing things out into the universe. I'd like to see how that plays out.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Trud dat, moon. And Keith Law over at ESPN.com says that TBR ranks second overall in MLB in terms of its farm system.

    In fact, Law (not softy) ranks the Red Sox' system last in the division.  One may quibble about some of the rankings and who is ahead of whom, but I bet the consensus is that the other farm systems in the AL  East are at least as good and arguably better than BOS.

    So TBR may be around for awhile at the top or near-top of the AL East, which will become more brutally competitive overall - if that's possible.

    In fact, having a competitive franchise in Tampa Bay - or wherever the franchise may go to escape its dreadful venue - may become the new normal.  TBR keeps winning but they can't put bodies in seats. Huh!

    John Henry has no such trouble with attendance, but that too may change.

    Sorry to be such a Debbie downer, but it's the reality that RSN faces. 

     
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